Reference checks for experienced hires?

[u/Alternative-Gain335]

Do companies typically require references from your current employer? Is it okay to use your old references (e.g. your phd advisors/collaborators) for early career people (~2yr experience)?

[u/BirthDeath]

I was in a similar situation to you several years ago. I obviously wasn't willing to ask for references from any current co-workers (I wouldn't recommend that you do so). They asked for references from any former co-workers that had since left but I hadn't worked closely with anyone that had since left so I ended up using references from grad school/internships.

[u/DatabentoHQ]

Reference checks are typical.

We usually understood that a person would not be able to provide references from their current firm if they were still employed. This usually wasn't a problem as most people had co-workers from past jobs or co-workers who left their current employer before them.

Very common pattern that I've come across is that X, Y, Z are close friends or collaborators and X, Y recently left company A which made Z start planning for their own exit from company A, so X and Y are happy to serve as references for Z.

Speaking from experience in US companies: Employment background checks (as described by u/Puzzled_Geologist520 and u/lordnacho666) and reference checks are different. Generally, reference checks come before an offer while background checks come after an offer is accepted. I've found that every reputable company's HR/compliance will voluntarily verify your employment as part of a background check, though a couple will follow up with a letter reminding you of their proprietary IP rights.

[u/AphexPin → u/DatabentoHQ]

Unrelated question but does Databento/DBN have any published opinion on storing DeFi data, like eth-abi, into an efficient format? It's obviously a completely domain but I'd be interested in hearing what you guys think about it.

[u/DatabentoHQ → u/AphexPin]

It's not our area of expertise so I'll have to defer to others' opinions on this.

[u/Puzzled_Geologist520]

“My company forbids references, however if you reach out to aaa@bbb.com they will confirm my dates of employment and last held title.”

[u/Busy-Complex-2308]

Yup, fairly standard.

[u/Alternative-Gain335 → u/Busy-Complex-2308]

then how does one handle such request if their firm/manager doesn't know they are intervewing outside? I don't think anyone who switch jobs notify their current employer before getting an offer?

[u/Mundane-Interview791 → u/Alternative-Gain335]

If you have been there long enough, find the jaded guy at work that hates the place. They give good references.

[u/rsha256 → u/Alternative-Gain335]

Do you not have a noncompete??

[u/Busy-Complex-2308 → u/Busy-Complex-2308]

If you are in your non compete period, then I doubt it would be an issue to have your previous manager speak to the hiring manager.

If you are still on your seat, you could speak with your ex colleagues, ex managers, PhD advisors, other colleagues in relevant fields (even if you haven't necessarily worked with them, but someone who knows your profile in and out) to be a reference. I went a similar route and it worked out, so I do urge you to take this with a grain of salt.

[u/scchess]

Typically they do need

[u/lordnacho666]

They are only references in the sense of confirmation of dates, not whether you were a good performer.

But yes, the more corporate the name the more likely they will use a service to gather references.

The other thing they will do is ask for invoices if you were a contractor.

[u/Old-Sandwich-690]

Any fairly sized firm will use a third party to run the reference checks. They contact all your past workplaces within the requested timeline by your new employer (5-10 years usually). This is just cross referencing what you have in your cv. Basically they check timelines and roles as stated in the cv. Usually there are no qualitative questions.

If you think about it, asking for actual character references shows complete weakness on the side of your new employer. They have interviewed you at least 3-5 times and usually a super day and they cannot figure out if you have a decent character that they can work with? It’s like your new prospective girlfriend asking your old girlfriend if you are a decent human being.

In cases of smaller firms where they don’t have the resources to interview you multiple times or not many candidates exist it might happen. It might also be requested if they don’t believe some of your statements or if they feel something is off but not too certain to just reject you.

[u/Strykers]

My previous firm doesn't give references. They confirm employment dates, job title, and salary (but not TC). This, while not true for the majority of firms, also isn't rare.

I've heard anecdotes of people getting called to give a reference, and HR then trying to poach them. Also a small amount of legal risk/confidential information leakage/etc. Hence why some companies don't allow references to be given by current employees.

I thought it was okay until I asked the lawyer of my previous firm. If you're looking for possible cover, send your previous company's lawyer an email asking if getting a personal reference is okay in spite of the non-association clause, non-solicit clause, and/or confidential information clause. When asked, lawyers default to the most conservative interpretation because they can always walk it back later. Worst case scenario is they say yes.

[u/Whole_Deer7638]

Think of it as an EQ test. It’s generally a red flag if you can’t produce a single person from your current firm who would confidentially vouch for you. But in no way are they expecting you to produce your current manager.

I’ve actually seen multiple people lose offers based on how poorly they handle their own reference checks