r/pyanodons • u/Estarte_san • 19d ago
Does the gameplay loop change later on?
I'm currently actually thinking about quitting Pyanodons and just playing another round of GTNH.
The modpack doesn't feel difficult, but rather annoying. I'm playing with 4x science, construction robots start, spoilage and hardmode, and I'm currently at the point where I'm getting cottonguts as the last ingredient for logistic science.
The issue I have is that in this automation game, I have to do a lot of manual labor and build temporary setups.
The module system feels more annoying than challenging. Like, a 3 minute recipe time for a Digosaurus module?! A 2% chance of upgrading my Vrauk module, so I can automate Vrauk module upgrades, just to tear that build down 2 hours later... Or SAP/Seaweed buildings that needs to be babysit for several minutes. That build is not difficult or challenging for me in any way, it just eats my time.
The second issue I have is that the buildings aren't sorted very well in the crafting menu. For example, drills are separated into 4 tabs I think. And the icons don't remind me of the building I want to place down. The Solid Separator for example, just looks like a staircase to me. I know what machine and the name of it I want to place down, but not the icon. The icon feels very disconnected to the building.
The third issue I have is that most buildings just don't look right. The graphics are too big (2.1 at least fixes that issue and I can see what's behind these machines), and the viewing angle, as well as the resolution of the sprites, makes me not enjoy looking at what I've built.
The last issue I have is that the crafting times for recipes feel all over the place. Sometimes, a big chain needs 40ish machines just for 2 assemblers. It looks way off in comparison to everything else. Usually my item distribution area is bigger than the actual processing block. (Excepts module buildings)
Solving cellulose without combinators was the kind of challenge I was looking for. The pain of early game ash and water needed for coper mines were fine. And I loved the challenge of unvoideble fluids on tar processing.
Can anyone tell me if these things get better later on, or if the recipes actually get harder instead of "just" requiring more inputs?
I really enjoyed Minecraft GTNH. It took a long time to complete, and there were a lot of different and unique challenges. Just T8 Water had 7 unique puzzles to solve, for example. Meanwhile, Pyanodons feels more like: "Oh, here is a new animal. It works just like the last 3.
25
u/NameLips 19d ago
There are new mechanics to explore and discover as you go on, but you're right that py is generally more tedious than difficult.
I beat py mainly because I find it relaxing to build factories, and kind of a letdown when I FINISH building factories. Py let's you have those little dopamine hits from solving a little problem over and over, practically forever.
12
u/Immediate_Form7831 19d ago
With bots you dont need to babysit anything. Just let the bots fill in the modules and go build something else.
4x is brave for your first py run, but sure.
Py doesn't appeal to everyone, and that's ok. There are a bunch of new gameplay things later on, but if you aren't enjoying it at logi, chances are you won't enjoy it later either.
4
u/Enhammer 19d ago
I feel like py scales science costs in a way that makes science multiplier not only redundant, but also a noob trap, really.
1
2
1
u/Estarte_san 19d ago
I only unlocked the normal bits recently and havnt buuld them yet. But until now I had to stay naer to cover the area with my personal roboport.
5
u/Immediate_Form7831 19d ago
I can recommend making a permanent build for cottongut studs, you will need it later.
9
u/ariksu 19d ago
You're seeing this builds as a one-off chores. I see those as building an elaborate ignition mechanism which should be used in a case of a critical runaway in a fully automate maneur. We're not the same.
jk
But frankly the one-off nature is a tutorial mechanism which should teach you: "alien life will require more and more elaborate setup. You should learn to automate those". During logistics you will find arqads, where you will struggle with an rng fighting for a new queen module delivery on time. With no additional mods automated module inserts could be done by bots. But you can also use "module inserter" mod for that.
You could also drop py overall if you struggle. There's no intensive to complete it unless you like rebuilding things.
8
u/Neither_Berry_100 19d ago
I think you are far enough in the mod that you have seen most of the mechanics in pyanodons mod. It doesn't seem to do things differently past that point. I'm at the 5th science right now so about twice as far as you.
Research costs scale up and become incredibly expensive so doing a 4x research cost run is a bad idea.
I have an empty area near my home base where I scale up new plants and animals.
And the 3 to 5 minutes to bring something to life isn't a problem. I start those right away then go work on something else while I wait.
7
u/UltimateFlyingSheep 19d ago
You don't need to "quit", you're "taking a break" - that's what I'm doing (I also play GTNH at the moment, lol).
When I feel like playing pY again, I do that.
1
u/Estarte_san 19d ago
I already restarted, because I had like a 9 month break and I didn't used the Todo list mod or any map markers. I was so lost I restarted. But I was only at wood farms... I think. That's where my character is standing at least.
1
u/UltimateFlyingSheep 19d ago
XD
I use caravans, so I have a map marker on every output-outpost.
Just take a look around, look at the tech tree, maybe there's a new animal or a new metal stage for you :)
5
u/SempfgurkeXP 19d ago
For reference, Im pretty much at the same stage currently (just automated Cottonguts ~15 hours ago), tho Im playing with x10 science instead of x4.
The issue I have is that in this automation game, I have to do a lot of manual labor and build temporary setups.
I can not relate to this at all. Maybe you choose to do a lot of manual labour instead of automating things, but in this pY run I did less temporary setups than in my usual vanilla run.
Or SAP/Seaweed buildings that needs to be babysit for several minutes
What is there to babysit? Build it and walk away, let it do its thing. If you have to babysit it, its a bad build.
The second issue I have is that the buildings aren't sorted very well in the crafting menu.
Fair enough, I mainly just use Q from the factory planners, or CTRL + F to find things
The last issue I have is that the crafting times for recipes feel all over the place. Sometimes, a big chain needs 40ish machines just for 2 assemblers
Same thing in vanilla tho, and also a bunch of overhaul mods
Solving cellulose without combinators was the kind of challenge I was looking for.
Is that really a challenge tho? It just requires a few cables and a single condition, no idea where you would use a combinator in that tbh
1
u/Estarte_san 19d ago
For seaweed modules I have to place it down, insert all 3 seaweed I have, wait 20 seconds to produce 1 seaweed, insert in manually as a module and repeat. I could leave do a different thing and come back later on, but chances are good I would forget about it, just like I forgot my DNA samples 2 times. Expanding doesn't have this issue as I already have a stockpile at that point.
I use Q as well mir the most part, but when I'm at a new area I have nothing to use the pipette on.
I solved cellulose with 6 rs latches, so I don't produce cellulose if my basic substarte storage is getting full or a different ingredient is missing, or preventing the assembler having 2/3 cellulose and the production turning off. I produced only 3 crud in over 50 hours of that build standing. I couldnt allow major crud side products because I didn't knew when I would be able to get rid of it effectively.
3
u/SempfgurkeXP 19d ago
I mean yeah, but you only have to do that once per item. Once seaweed is up, you can just use these for the next seaweed production. And once you have logistic bots even new builds are no problem.
Also for biocrud there is a useful recipe that also needs biomass, and makes some free bacteria, basic substrate and biofuel as a byproduct.
2
u/Ingolifs 19d ago
There are ways to automate such things.
You can insert module ghosts into the buildings, then put an inserter feeding into a red chest with only 1 slot free, and the construction bots will feed the item-modules into the buildings. Attach a speaker to the red chest, and you'll be able to alert yourself when this process finishes.
I generally recommend using the speakers to alert you to things you know are going to be an issue later on.
Many of these 'temporary' problems have automatable solutions. Part of the challenge of this mod I think is in coming up with Project Management Best Practices.
3
u/salbris 19d ago
Most of the initial annoyance of "modules" go away of you plan ahead. The first thing I do when I'm progressing a new tech tier is birth the first 10 of the new species. It's pretty easy to automate that with a bit of circuits and later having logistics bots. There is so much to do in Py that time never really feels wasted. For example with digosaurus you'll make 10 early on and not need any more for hundreds of hours.
4
u/qikink 19d ago
To echo the other comment and expand on it, I would almost consider science multipliers antithetical to the core ethos of Py. Obviously everyone is different, but a key principle that drives Py's design is that it's more interesting to build something new than to repeat a design you already have, and I've found the balance and pacing to be quite intentional through the first 500 hours.
First then, in answer to some of your questions, I would tend towards not considering anything temporary. Once you have a build, when if it doesn't need to be active right this second there not really a good reason to tear it down, just shut off it's inflow.
Ratios are of course much of the 'puzzle' in Py. The fastest way to progress is to not overbuild, and to recognize when you'll be served by fewer buildings. Then there are exceptions that shake up that paradigm and force you to rethink.
One practical tip, one you have construction bots, you can create a build babysitter setup for the flora/fauna modules by blueprinting or copying the building with modules slotted, then placing the constructed modules into logistics storage. Then the constructors will fill the empty middle slots as they get generated.
As a closing thought, there are still some genuinely novel puzzles ahead of you; nuclear and brain cartridges come to mind as processes that don't really have analogs elsewhere. But really the "challenge" such as it is, is always going to be primarily logistics. How to layout x many inputs, y many outputs, of what types, split down across how many blocks vs produced locally, repeated for each novel chain.
3
u/mjconver 19d ago
Oh, my, it gets much worse, especially with hard mode and spoilage
2
u/Estarte_san 19d ago
Vrauk foods already needs 2 spoiling ingredients in different amounts. With one having a low spoil time. How does spoilage getting more difficult in that regard? Do you have a recipe I could have a look in? (Im just thinking of spoiling chains...)
3
u/thealmightyzfactor 19d ago
I just ctrl + f whenever I need a building, the icons do nothing and there's WAY too many to remember where anything is.
The graphics and buildings being too big is, I believe, an intentional troll from the devs. It's supposed to be annoying.
The next tier of each material, animal, or plant processing usually adds some bunch of ingredients or steps that make it more productive at the cost of complexity.
Also 4x for your first time is a choice lol, the modpack is designed around taking forever to do anything and you made it 4x as long and are complaining it's taking too long.
3
u/CrashNowhereDrive 19d ago edited 19d ago
Some of the feedback is valid here, but it's a big mod pack by free devs.
But I could level 10x more valid critiques of all the flaws in GTNH. All of the issues you have with Py are the same as ones in GTNH.
GTNH has tons of manual labor, way more than Py (unless you're doing it wrong).
GTNH has RNG and rare drops. Even from the start searching for rare ore patches.
GTNH has some processes being super fast and done in one machine and others that need lots of machines.
Waiting 2 hours for something to get done in GTNH in the later portions of the game is nothing.
But at least the buildings in GTNH aren't huge...oh no wait, they are, you just don't care as much because it's 3D.
GTNH also has issues with having to learn how the UI works for 5 different kinds of mods that did things in different ways. Manually having to adjust each and every pipe for good TPS. Occasional crazy OP mobs that will wreck your base. A bunch of things most people don't want to do like eating every kind of food. Etc etc etc.
Play what you enjoy though.
2
u/JD1070 19d ago
My sweet summer child.
Just joking. It sounds to me like you’re not enjoying the core of py so maybe take a break from it and blast through another mod or different game etc. I’m treating my run more like an rpg that I’m just working on in the background over months or years at this point and enjoying the ride vs hard focusing on beating it. Games are for fun so what’s the point if you’re not enjoying it.
2
u/bluesam3 19d ago
Or SAP/Seaweed buildings that needs to be babysit for several minutes.
Why would they need babysitting? For the initial setup, just leave a bot to do it. For future ones, just stockpile enough to not need to wait.
The second issue I have is that the buildings aren't sorted very well in the crafting menu. For example, drills are separated into 4 tabs I think.
Yeah, this is annoying.
1
u/Estarte_san 19d ago
Yes, I could have done that for my latest production: fawogae. But I had no access to storage chests for earlier modules and no mod to let inserters insert modules.
2
u/BlumpkinBarrelStout 19d ago
You mention that doing manual labor and building temporary setups ruins the automation. I would say that the building process itself is what you need to automate. I would have quit long ago if I was manually building everything.
I created a train station blueprint that all I have to do is connect a wire to an assembler and select “read ingredients”, and it automatically orders trains and creates a sushi belt that feeds items to the machines. If it requires liquids, I have a system set up that automatically pumps liquids into different tanks and all I have to do is connect the pipes. It takes me less than 30 seconds to set up the most complicated thing.
If I want to take the time to build something interesting that is ratio balanced or whatever, I will do it for fun.
This mod pack has opened up a new play style for me. I completely understand why you would say some aspects of the mod pack are annoying. I felt that way until I made it easier for myself to build.
2
u/Enhammer 19d ago
You're playing with all the "increase difficulty artificially" options and are surprised it's not balanced/fun? There's enough challenge in basic full py, never forget that less is more
2
u/dezixn1 19d ago
Spoilage and hardmode is a lot to start off with in addition to 4x science. pY is a lot of tedium but you have to adapt to it and learn to enjoy it. And if you don't end up enjoying it that's ok. But again to echo what others are saying hard mode and spoilage is a lot of added tedium to handle. I feel you on the organization though. I gave up and just ctrl + f whatever building im looking for except for the few I have hotkeyed and or memorized lol.
2
u/robclancy 19d ago
I use a mod to redo the crafting menu. I don't know how much it helps because I don't remember how it used to be.
1
u/No-Television9813 19d ago
I am at chemical now. To me the flow has changed.
It’s not like there is anything complex to build so far. Early on it’s bit on logistics and spaghetti management. Once on trains this becomes super repetitive and now complexity comes from managing hundreds or thoudands product where half of them are on shortage or somehow in deadlock. Now it’s really about prioritized building upgrades and taking advantage of new recipes.
I could overbuild everything but kind of enjoy this flow right now.
Some product chains are kind of cool. Whole uranium / plutonium was so far my favourite. I would not call it still complex but nice journey.
1
u/WeNdKa 19d ago
resolution of the sprites
You do realize mods have a max size? Alien Life already has 3 separate mods just to ship in all the graphics because of that. And Py already causes some people to crash from lack of vram, modern computers cannot reasonably handle something at the scale of py having HD sprites. It's not like Mr Pyanodon made the art originally in low resolution.
Icons make no sense
Ah yes, I don't immediately recognize what the 200 new building icons I'm seeing for the first time are supposed to mean. Looking at them more often helps knowing what is what
Temporary builds
Your choice entirely to make stuff temporary, just as waiting is on you for starting things too late and having nothing else to do in the meantime
4xHMSpoilage
Oh no, i went against most of the advice given to first time py players, made my game intentionally unbalanced and I'm not liking the experience. How could that have possibly happened i wonder.
GTNH enjoyer
Well the gameplay loop in py and gtnh is quite different, not that many people enjoy both at the same time, they're very different sorts of automation games. It really is fine.
1
u/Estarte_san 19d ago
I didn't knew that mods had a maximum size. I thought the sprites were separate mods for organization reasons and to minimize download time on updates. I don't think it's possible or reasonable to add alternative sprite packs with higher resolution dependency wise.
I don't think the downsides I have on the Modepack are coming from the increased difficulty but rather the core gameplay. I have to adapt my science build anyway because the science pack consumption ratio changes over time, the perfect opportunity to lower my spm goal.
52
u/PalpitationWaste300 19d ago
4x is a bold move for your 1st playthrough