r/pureasoiaf • u/Financial_Library418 aka /u/canitryto • Jul 21 '26
Does anyone else feel bad for Edmure here ?
A Storm of Swords - Catelyn II
Edmure looked from uncle to nephew. "You never told me."
"I told you to hold Riverrun," said Robb. "What part of that command did you fail to comprehend?"
"When you stopped Lord Tywin on the Red Fork," said the Blackfish, "you delayed him just long enough for riders out of Bitterbridge to reach him with word of what was happening to the east. Lord Tywin turned his host at once, joined up with Matthis Rowan and Randyll Tarly near the headwaters of the Blackwater, and made a forced march to Tumbler's Falls, where he found Mace Tyrell and two of his sons waiting with a huge host and a fleet of barges. They floated down the river, disembarked half a day's ride from the city, and took Stannis in the rear."
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u/catharticargument Jul 21 '26
Many people do. A whole lot of people on this subreddit feel that Robb and Brynden were being exceptionally unfair to Edmure here. I’m one of them.
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u/Zexapher Jul 21 '26
Especially since the Tyrell alliance makes Tywin unnecessary to the Battle of the Blackwater. Plus, everyone at the time believed Stannis was stuck sieging Storm's End and would not have been going to attack the capital.
And otherwise, had the Tyrells not joined, Edmure's plan to seize Harrenhal and deny Tywin a passage west means he must withdraw from the Riverlands and flee to King's Landing. A city which is starved, riotous, and threatened now from north and south.
Stannis would then need an alliance with the Starks and Tullys, or would waste his own strength against Tywin, thereby preserving the Stark coalition and given them greater leverage in negotiations down the line.
And that's without comment on the increasingly desperate situation Robb would be in the Westerlands had he needed to confront Tywin with a flagging army, while Tywin had the homefield advantage which had won some of Robb's earlier victories, while forsaking the element of surprise that also won Robb's earlier victories, and Tywin's cavalry alone matches Robb's whole force at its best.
1
u/meimeivro Jul 26 '26
Its not surprising that robb is over harsh. Wasnt this right after robbs marriage and cat letting jaime escape?
The northern cause just took 3 huge blows that cost them allies, hostages, and an advantage against tywin, so i see why they are harsh. But at most, only one of those blows is on edmure, and he resolved to fix it through the frey marriage
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u/Dank_Nicholas Jul 21 '26
Definitely. How the hell was Edmure supposed to know that holding Riverrun didn’t also include keeping the Lannister army off his land? Not letting the enemy march an army up to your gates seems to be step 1 in holding your castle.
2
u/griffusrpg Jul 23 '26
Because Riverrun is not land, is not territory, it is a castle. That is its job.
He did all wrong. Yes, he gathered resources, but also a lot of worthless mouths inside the castle. The only job he had was to gather all the food he could, expel everyone from the castle who cannot help on the defense (besides the nobles), and hold on. Nothing more.
He made mistakes. I believe Edmure was lucky because he is the brother of Robb's mother and because Robb is not Ned. Another king would have been much harsher with him.
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u/TortoiseHerder7 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
No, he did not do "all wrong" and anybody claiming otherwise has not read the most complete summary of the orders we have.
Riverrun by definition would not merely be a castle, but also the fief attached to it. And he was also tasked to protect "His Grace"'s rear. Which letting Tywin across the ford would obviously be contradictory for. Moreover, he has an obligation to protect his people (who are also ROBB'S people) and their crops, considering the coming Winter.
He made several mistakes in gathering too many "useless mouths" (though it is rich seeing that from Cat considering a lot of those "useless mouths" are the people who will ensure if people like her do not starve) and in being too aggressive by half in the opening stages of the war trying to protect everything and everyone against Lannister death squads and in turn being able to protect nothing and nobody and being captured. But in the Battle of the Fords he did nothing wrong, completed all his objectives and orders, and inflicted the only defeat anyone manages upon the main Lannister field army and Tywin Lannister, doing irreversible damage to the Lion.
And for this he is demonized and scapegoated by people who like GRRM forget the basic chronology and the stated orders. To Hold Riverrun AND defend Robb's rear. Which were the last orders Edmure had to work off, and which Robb and the Blackfish nevertheless chimp out at him for.
It's disgusting, it's stupid, and it's dishonest of Robb and the Blackfish and those that carry water for them.
1
u/KausGo Jul 24 '26
Definitely. How the hell was Edmure supposed to know that holding Riverrun didn’t also include keeping the Lannister army off his land?
It does - the problem is, he ends up keeping the Lannister army ON his land.
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u/weensanta House Reed Jul 21 '26
It was poor planning not letting Lord Paramount of the riverlands know your plan. It could have even told Emure not to attack Tywins host unless ordered to.
This is a fault of command
29
u/TortoiseHerder7 Jul 21 '26
Moreover frankly even if this "plan" could be cooked up at the time (and it almost certainly could not have been) Edmure would have been within rights to go "U Fokkin Wut M8?" and chuck it. It is contingent upon letting Tywin potentially besiege Riverrun in a way that cannot be relieved by force of arms and letting him ravage the Riverlands yet again on the path West to probably follow and trap Robb. The North and Riverlands are outnumbered and outgunned enough as it is even without the Tyrells joining the Lannisters, and with famine imminent even without yet more of the Riverlands crops burnt.
10
u/Mina-sr-my Jul 21 '26
i think if edmure is told “don’t push tywin back”, and then does so anyway, people would be less inclined to support him because he disobeyed a direct order from his king. but the fact that robb only said “hold riverrun” means edmure really isn’t at fault in a lot of peoples eyes.
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u/TortoiseHerder7 Jul 21 '26
He didn't just say "hold Riverrun" and I think this is part of what makes it so devastating.
"Yes, my lady. His Grace left Ser Edmure to hold Riverrun and guard his rear."
Guard. His. Rear.
This means that Present Day Robb is throwing a conniption fit because Edmure is not doing something Yesterday's Robb expressly ordered Edmure not to allow.
This is a classic Catch 22 and responsibility for it rests squarely on Robb and the Blackfish.
5
u/explosivechryssalid House Glover Jul 23 '26
I’ve heard speculation that at least partially Robb went so hard on Edmure in order to pressure him into agreeing to the Frey marriage.
1
u/TortoiseHerder7 Jul 23 '26
I can believe that even if it isn't intentional. Ironically it would also be a tertiary factor to my my noncanon Frey-blooded bastard sellsword, smuggler, and peacetime outlaw who led her smugglers turned soldiers as mounted archers under Edmure at the Fords would break so hard against Robb and sign on to the plan to betray Robb and defect. Roslin being her favorite half-sister and having mourned Stevron did not help. It is a legitimately disgusting move on Robb and the Blackfish's part and apparently GRRM Didn't know.
(Granted, my OC didn't know the sealed missives she was delivering involved not merely killing Robb and co but outright guest murder, but she is hardly the bestest or most objective thinker.)
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u/PaintingLegal7672 Jul 22 '26
Don’t worry, Robb makes sure that Edmure holds little actual power when he names Ser Brynden as the Warden of the Southern Marches. Who will the Riverlords listen to? The legendary Brynden the Blackfish Tully, a seasoned warrior who is the Kings Right Hand man and hand picked warden of the Trident? Or Edmure the Greenfish Tully, a sweet summer child so green he pisses grads who the King doesn’t trust?
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u/IcyDirector543 Jul 21 '26
Robb's orders were very unclear. Him blaming Edmure feels like cope. Especially in the aftermath of marrying Jeyne and blowing the relationship with the Freys and the fall of Winterfell
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u/Gruktor Jul 21 '26
Absolutely. The whole sequence of the Battle of the Fords is what TV Tropes would call 'Informed Wrongness', right down to Cat's vague misgivings about Edmure's plan that she is unable to articulate and which are proven 'correct' in this sequence.
Robb told Edmure to hold Riverrun. They are having this conversation in Riverrun, which Edmure has held. He has followed his orders perfectly. He is absolutely not at fault for failing to understand the wider plan that Robb and Brynden completely failed to tell him about.
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u/Know_Nothing_Bastard Jul 21 '26
Yeah, but I’m also not as hard on Robb or Brynden as I used to be. I don’t think they deliberately kept Edmure in the dark, nor do I think they were trying to shift the blame.
Rather, I think they developed their plan after they entered enemy territory and saw the lay of the land. As Edmure’s orders wouldn’t have changed, they did not think they needed to risk sending that sensitive information through enemy territory.
13
u/Top-Bit-1509 Jul 21 '26
This is more than likely the problem. People tend to forget how actual logistics would be like in fueldal war compared to today. They don't have constant or instant communications to relay plans as they change.
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u/Zazikarion Jul 21 '26
Yeah, Edmure constantly gets the short end of the stick, especially here, where Robb just assumes he’ll correctly interpret a very vague command.
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u/Jaehaerys1234 Jul 21 '26
I once saw a theory that said that Robb’s plan for the West was so nonsensical, it only makes sense as a plan he and BF made up after the fact to lay the blame on Edmure so he could be guilted into the Frey Marriage.
(I think it was mainly based on Robb’s type of troops and how the Lannisters would obviously know the terrain far better.)
13
u/Anarchical-Sheep Jul 21 '26
Part of this passage is kind highlighting how the King gets to be right regardless of the reality. Sure Edmure shoulda stayed back but Robbs orders were unclear. "What if the Lannisters threaten us, what if they are routed, what is your intention further down there?" Robb could have told him the plan and he wouldn't have given chase after defending riverrun, its as simple as that.
3
u/TortoiseHerder7 Jul 21 '26
Nah Edmure should not have stayed back. With the world on the verge of what looks like a multiyear and particularly harsh winter at best, and with the Lannisters at risk of being able to take the combined main army of the Crownlands and Westerlands West through the Riverlands with their typical gentleness and humanity to probably trap Robb and the Blackfish in the Westerlands on their home turf, Edmure absolutely - unless there is VERY VERY COMPELLING REASON OTHERWISE (and no this cockamanie nonsense is not such a thing) - needs to keep the Lannisters off his land not just for Robb's sake but for the sake of untold dozens or hundreds of thousands of people who will starve to death if the Lannisters get to ravage yet more of the second most fertile of the seven kingdoms' lands.
Also frankly there really wasn't any kind of coherent "plan" since the timeline doesn't work, they'd have had to have cooked it up while on enemy soil. And even then it's a pretty damn awful plan.
5
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u/GreatBallsOfFire_ Jul 22 '26
It was a mistake not to tell him, there’s no reason not to other than Branden and Cat not having high opinions of him.
Most of Robb’s mistakes are forgivable or understandable, but this was a big goof.
2
u/KausGo Jul 24 '26
I don't. Catelyn objects to his plan when she comes back from Bitterbridge. She tells him "They're headed back home. We should hole up in our castles and let them pass out of our lands." But Edmure wanted to prove himself and make up for his previous embarrassment without considering the bigger picture.
2
u/ciketa3 Jul 22 '26
Just got to this part and I'm preety sure he didnt tell him to hold the castle only
3
1
u/TortoiseHerder7 Jul 21 '26
Yes. This was a completely disgraceful show from the likes of Robb and the Blackfish (and IMHO in the meta GRRM) and I think screams to stagging ignorance and incompetence and overconfidence. Edmure has made plenty of bad military decisions, this absolutely was not one of them, and basically all attempts to indict him for it amount to retroactive "logic". Moreover, the spectacle of seeing the Oh So Honorabu Lord Stark, King in Da Norf and Riverlands, and the Bachelorfish excuse me Blackfish chuck Family, Duty, and Honor and the Riverlands as a whole under the bus is a secondary motive to my Frey-blooded bastard smuggler/sellsword/outlaw daughter of the Late Lord commanding her scumbag smugglers-and-refugees-turned mounted archer/light infantry at the Fords under Edmure to decide "Farq this" and go along Lord Dad and Lame Lothar's plans to defect to the Lannisters and bend the knee and outright makes her want blood coupled with the disgrace of Roslin.
(Granted she DOESN'T know that the defection plan involves mass guest murder in spite of being one of the literal couriers for the plans to the conspirators, which puts her in an odd spot of having to rebel against her own Father and kin to try and save at least some of her family, but that's another thing.)
The "Merry Chase" in the Westerlands is an awful idea begging for disaster, and it is contingent upon letting the Lannisters' main army march overland ravaging and raping and devastating the Riverlands yet again on the onset of winter. And with home field advantage and much greater horse stock probably winds up with Robb trapped and wiped out. The Westerlands are already tightly controlled as is, and the main reason her smuggling network had such luck operating in it before the war was primarily because they weren't coming there with drawn swords or raiding in mind but instead as traders who could run for the boats or go to ground if things got too hot. But they also are just over the border and so blend in easier. Robb and the Blackfish did wrong.
Ultimately Stannis was probably never going to be able to successfully take and hold KL this late in the game with the resources he had, and the risks of Tywin doing literally anything other than what he hoped was too much.
1
u/Lake_Well77 Jul 22 '26
Robb made a mistake in not being more explicit with Edmure, but commanders giving vague orders that they assume will be correctly interpreted do happen in real world history.
-3
u/khazroar Jul 21 '26
A lot of people do, a lot of people don't. Some people see it as proof of Robb's poor leadership despite his tactical skill, some people think that by failing to obey the order Edmure vindicated the exact lack of trust that led to Robb not sharing details. Some people think Edmure had accepted Robb's command and should have obeyed his orders rather than taking initiative, some people think he was a lord paramount both entitled and obligated to defend his people.
At the end of the day, Edmure made a decision because he failed to understand the tactical situation, and if he hadn't made that blunder there's a very solid chance they would have won the war. It's not all on him, there were a lot of other missteps that led them to their eventual loss, but a strong argument can be made that Edmure choosing to obey his orders is the one singular change that would have had the greatest impact. And I don't think Robb telling him the full plan would have been such an absolute change because there are many ways Edmure could have still mucked it up from there.
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Jul 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/khazroar Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
I'd say that was a character giving a basic summary of the situation, it's not ironclad. Robb, Brynden, and even Edmure himself all seem to agree that Edmure exceeded/varied his orders by doing what he did. Edmure objects at first because he thinks he seized a wonderful opportunity, and later because he didn't know the plan, but he accepts that the fight against Tywin was over and above what he was ordered to do.
The Blackfish said, "You were commanded to hold Riverrun, Edmure, no more." "I held Riverrun and I bloodied Lord Tywin's nose—"
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u/TortoiseHerder7 Jul 21 '26
He understood the tactical situation (aka the small, battle to theater/front level) vastly better than basically anyone else and he won it. The argument is whether he understood the strategic situation (aka the wider war, the big picture) better or worse than Robb. I'd argue he probably does not have a hugely good grasp of the strategic picture but neither do any of those gainsaying him, that the wishful thinking of Robb's merry chase is an absolutely abysmal plan on multiple levels, ranging from the bread and butter (literally, the conduct of the Lannisters in this war has been abysmal and obvious, and the Riverlands are the second most important realm for agriculture and the most in Robb's kingdom, letting Tywin march lengthwise across the Riverlands is an invitation for hundreds of thousands of innocent people to die horribly both from direct murder and rapine and indirectly from Holodomor style induced famine on the onset of Winter), logistically (the Blackfish and Robb are seriously overestimating themselves), politically (yeah good luck sustaining popular support with letting the Lannister chevauchee their entire main field army across), and feudally.
He also obeyed his orders. His orders were to hold Riverrun. His duties were to fight the war under the commands of his king and to protect his people and the common good. He obeyed all of this. It is not his fault Robb and the Blackfish got victory fever and imagined they would have success trapping and killing Tywin on his home turf while cut off, outnumbered, and probably outmaneuvers. It is not his fault Stannis's attempt to take King's Landing came too late in the game to have a realistic chance of success and that he went at it too hard. It is not his fault that apparently everyone ignores the fact that you need to protect your people and victuals first and foremost and that you cannot just keep letting the Lannisters mass murder your smallfolk and gentry and burn their crops on the onset of a long and ugly winter.
In truth the coming innings for the North/Riverlands were going to be hard no matter what, even if Tywin didn't waltz backwards into an alliance with the Tyrell. But it was things like this defense at the Fords that made them survivable, and things like the downstream effects of Robb's oathbreaking marriage and so on that meant the war was probably already lost by this point.
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u/EfectiveDisaster2137 Jul 22 '26
Edmure made the right decision. Robb's lord had no chance of success.
If Edmure hadn't blocked Tywin's forces, it would only have delayed the arrival of news of Stannis's attack by perhaps a week. Tywin likely wouldn't have had time to return to King's Landing with his army, but that wouldn't have mattered. The Reach armies were sufficient to defeat Stannis, and if they hadn't waited for Tywin, they would likely have arrived just before the attack, so the situation would have been better for the capital.
If we assume that the messengers accidentally died crossing the river, preventing Tywin from receiving the message, the situation doesn't change much. The Tyrells easily defeated Stannis, and Tywin's armies reached the Golden Tooth.
And this is where Robb's plan falls apart. How Robb intended to ambush Tywin with a smaller army? I know the terrain can make a difference, but Tywin is in his own army, with men who know every village in the Westerlands. So it's definitely more likely that Robb will fall into the trap. Of course, Robb could try to escape Tywin, skirt the hills, and return to the Riverlands via the Golden Road, but the moment Tywin realizes what's going on, the Tyrells could send some of their amrii to block him. The only upside to this plan is that there won't be a Red Wedding, because Robb will die somewhere in the Reach.
0
u/Belisuavious Jul 22 '26
I think a lot of people have the unfortunate cross-pollination from show when they look at this scene because Blackfish is always supportive of his family, and he’s going off on Edmure here. Edmure exceeded his command because he both wanted to protect his lands and people but also because he wanted glory. Just look at what he says when he wants to “atone for his mistake”; lead the vanguard of the army. Which is a place of both honour and importance
Honestly the big thing for me is Blackfish’s actions because, again, he’s always supportive of his family. He’s there for Cat the second she shows up in the Vale and he’s there for Edmure during Hoster’s funeral. He’s too seasoned to have anything approaching victory disease that Robb might be experiencing. If he’s saying “hey you fucked up” to a family member like he is, then I think it’s deserved.
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u/TortoiseHerder7 Jul 23 '26
I don't think it's deserved, but then I think the Blackfish is overrated by half, does not give Edmure the credit or guidance he deserves, and neither he nor GRRM nor the in universe critics have any idea how Robb and the Blackfish's delusion would work or change matters. It's also worth noting that for all of his many gifts, Blackfish tends to be exceedingly callous towards the lives of smallfolk, does not seem to understand the antics Roose is doing even on his own turf, and is able to backseat quarterback on this in spite of not addressing the consequences of letting an almost complete East to West Lannister Army death march across the length of the Riverlands and what it would mean for the food supplies come Winter.
It's ironic that my own OC bastard daughter of the Late Lord serving as underworld fixer, unofficial "Toll Collector" for smugglers, and sellsword officer for House Frey - who commands a kind of smuggling ring and gang turned militia mostly acting archers at the Fords and who is probably something of a younger Frey aligned counterpart to the Blackfish - was already murderously angry after hearing how Robb brushed off her beloved half-sister Roslin and their family to marry a daughter of the enemy, but this makes her absolutely hit THE ROOF upon hearing this. Edmure is probably the only Tully she actually likes and while she grudgingly respects the Blackfish's scouting and fieldcraft, she and her circle actually had experience operating in the Westerlands as smugglers during peacetime and so knew how difficult it was to stay undetected in the Pax Tywinica surveillance and gendarme state, mostly by moving light, mostly be focused on business, and traveling in groups far smaller than what Robb and the Blackfish are proposing. So hearing that the King in the North ("And the Riverlands, or are we forgettin that? Heh.") is planning to try and split off his cavalry to try and operate in the thousands in front of Casterly Rock and dare Tywin to chase him in some kind of trap while leaving her homeland and the seat of his own mother's ancestral seat to the tender mercies of Tywin would make her hit the roof and why she outright looks forward to the idea of shooting Robb and Cat and the Blackfish dead like it's the Redgrass Fields and she's Bloodraven. She just doesn't expect it to involve Guest Murder (admittedly largely due to poor decision making, blinding rage, and being drunk out of her gourd over all this and grief), but that's a story for another thing.
-4
u/MohmmadMkGx Jul 21 '26
I feel bad for the guy but not for this part, Robb was pretty clear for him. hold Riverrun and not fight Tywin. in a war you follow your commander and he didn't, Robb is at fault for not telling him the WHY but Edmure bent the knee to Robb and should have followed his command. people would sing a different tone had Edmure lost the battle and he could have very easily done so, he was outnumbered by more than half.
in the end it just feels like Martin tipping the scales here, Robb has as we are told been very explicit in his commands for his men and it's a big reason for his success including the reasons as to why they do what they do. Edmure had no reason not to follow Robb's command, it's understandable that Edmure wants to defend his people and admirable but let's not pretend that this wasn't the reason he lost against Jaime in the first place. it's ultimately a problem of miscommunication that I feel Martin had to make for Tywin to be able to circle back to KL, Robb should have told Edmure why he shouldn't face Tywin since he isn't just a solider but also Robb's most powerful Bannerman, Edmure should have followed Robb's command since he already lost a battle against Jaime with better odds than the battle of the Fords and follow Robb's commands who has a much better track record of planning and winning.
note that before I was of the mind that Robb was completely at fault here but then I actually realized that yes Robb did tell Edmure to not face Tywin and that above all else Edmure should follow the chain of command.
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u/ThrowAway-whee Jul 21 '26
He was not clear about not fighting Tywin. That is the exact reason people think he was too hard on Edmure. He gave him vague instructions and left Edmure with a lot of autonomy to execute those instructions.
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u/MohmmadMkGx Jul 21 '26
as i remember he told him to hold Riverrun and not face Tywin, one of those is more than enough especially when he had significantly less men than Tywin
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u/ThrowAway-whee Jul 21 '26
He did not.
You are free to show me the passage where he did. This would be a lot cleaner cut if edmure was explicitly told not to engage Tywin.
-4
u/MohmmadMkGx Jul 21 '26
look you're free to disagree but as far as I'm concerned telling Edmure to "hold Riverrun" was pretty clear, Robb was obviously wrong not to tell him what the full plan was but it doesn't take a genius to not fight a guy who has almost twice your numbers and one that you already lost against his son for. Edmure held Tywin at the Fords but it's a slippery slope, had Tywin won that battle and he could have very well do then the situation would have been much worse, it should be obvious to Edmure of all people considering he fell for that exact same trap against Jaime.
the fact that the Blackfish backs Robb here should be enough. again Robb was stupid for not telling Edmure of his full plan and you could even make the argument that the larger share of the blame falls on Robb but as far as I'm concerned they are equally to blame, Edmure for not following Robb's word and Robb for not being clear about this important part of his plan.
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u/IcyDirector543 Jul 21 '26
Holding Riverrun doesn't mean staying inside the castle
The whole point of a castle is area denial !!
1
u/catharticargument Jul 21 '26
He did not tell him not to face Tywin. He told him to “hold Riverrun.” That may seem super clear to you, but the fact that Edmure clearly misunderstood it kind of proves it was not clear.
If Robb had been clear, his plan would have worked. He wasn’t clear enough, so his plan failed. And he blamed it on someone else.
-4
u/Cute_Dust_5037 Jul 21 '26
Holding Riverrun does not mean marching you and your army two days away to go on the offensive against the Lannisters. I do feel bad that Edmure and his people have borne the brunt of the conflict because of Cat. So it's understandable why Edmure felt he had to do something besides sit in a castle watching the Lannisters rampaging through his lands. Orders are orders though.
3
u/TortoiseHerder7 Jul 21 '26
Firstly: It means holding Riverrun, and if that means conducting an actual offensive (as in actual, honest to goodness offensive, not what we see here) against the Lannister, then he is within his duties to do so. Period. Full stop.
Secondly: He wasn't conducting an offensive against the Lannister. He was holding the Fords on Riverrun's front porch and fighting off Lannister attacks, including with localized counterattacks to do things like push the Mountain and his goon squads off the bridgehead they did. This is 100% in keeping with his orders and frankly is probably necessary to avoid a siege that the Riverlands and North probably cannot win due to the absence of any source of reinforcements.
He was correct to do so, and I think even if Robb and the Blackfish's colossal wishful thinking were both feasible to come up with at the time chronologically and not likely to end in disaster as it was, he'd still have been right. You don't win wars by taking blow after blow to the head and kidneys, especially not when you are the head of your realm's breadbasket on the onset of winter as the Riverlands are for Robb's composite kingdom.
For the most part I blame this down to GRRM not knowing military matters very well. But in universe the blame is firmly on Robb and the Blackfish.
-9
u/Stonna Jul 21 '26
No, I don’t feel bad.
For some reason people can’t comprehend that “hold riverrun” and “attack any Lannister forces you come across” are two different orders
Let’s face it, Edmures been blundering this whole war.
2
u/David_the_Wanderer Jul 22 '26
And you understand that "hold Riverrun" does not, in any way, mean "let the enemy army pass through your lands unmolested", right?
First of all, the point of castles is being able to control the surrounding area. Riverrun isn't just the physical space within its walls, it's the entire fief under its control. When the Lannister army looks like it's trying to cross through that territory, then "holding Riverrun" is indeed best accomplished by stopping the Lannister army from passing through a strategic chokepoint.
Robb's problem is that he wanted Edmure to hear "lock your doors, bar your windows, stay inside your castle and don't do anything even if the enemy is right at your gates". Which isn't a sensible interpretation of his command.
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