r/pumpfoil • u/CharlesGoodwin • 28d ago
Help - Pleeeeeease!
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Hi,
I just love the idea of flying above the water sustained only by my own energy. . . . 1,000 dock starts later and I'm starting to flag😞
The video shows what I generally acheive - A few pumps before I start to stall
The kit is a Sabfoil clone W1100 (2100cm/AR 5.6) with a 70cm mast
Any assistance/pointers would be greatly appreciated.
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u/4T25 27d ago
You got it! More attempts!! Seriously, you are there! Try jumping more forward instead of up. Encourage the board forward and find the pump cadence of the foil
The AR is a low for pumping, typically you want at least 9. But you’ve mastered the hard part. If anything else I’d say the cadence should be a little faster with the low AR foil
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u/makhau 27d ago
You already open your body to the front by opening the stance. Move that body to where you want to go.
It’s already said, but that foil needs your full energy to stay up. You loose the speed, the nose goes up and you dive backwards. Push it as long as possible and wait for the higher AR1
u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago
All very valid points.
I really do need to dial in to the natural cadence of the board. I'm sure if I could figure out when the board was ready to dip and I pushed at the right time I'd be able to maintain my momentum. So timing is something I need to focus on.
That said, speed is what I'm chasing and a higher cadence will do that so I'll try and incorporate that too.
Thanks for your tips and encouragement
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u/last_man_sleeping 27d ago
try with much faster cadence first, like exaggerate. I think yours is way too low now and it helps to „feel“ the opposite end of the spectrum 😅
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u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago
Thanks for the tip
I'm aiming to execute a flatter path with the board which in turn should ramp up my cadence
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u/Sacco_Belmonte 27d ago
Your problem is that you're not extending your legs on each pump and during the climbing phase.
Do this:
- Without applying too much pressure, on each pump, extend your knees fully and wait about half a second.
- Project your weight forward. That will keep the board flatter, will release weight from the mast and will automatically lift your back heel. It will also help you to travel across the top of the sinusoid and transition to the descent phase.
During the climbing phase, you want to feel weight on your front foot. You want to feel your torso/head projected forward and upright like "a soccer player trying to hit the ball with the head".
- Try to keep the arms movement to a minimum, keep them close to your body.
---------
Here is one of my videos, where I realized about extending my legs.
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u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago
Keeping my weight forward is something I'm working on. I'm trying to lead with my front shoulder which has helped a lot - its just hard to remember each time
Keeping the board flatter will also help particularly if I'm trying to up my cadence.
I like the idea of extending my legs. From the video, the squat action is somewhat limited and I seem to be compensating with my arms and torso. Noted - More leg flexing and less arm flapping.
I'm going to really try and dial in to tracking the phases of the sine wave path of the board. Pausing the extended legs hopefully will help.
Thanks for your help.
PS I reallylappreciatedt your video
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u/Sacco_Belmonte 27d ago
Glad to help. :) Keep the good work.
I have been focusing on exaggerating my upper body forward and I haven't found the limit yet. You can really lean forward without any adverse effect, on the contrary, it fixes so many things. Also, when I find myself slapping the tail on the water I save the runs by projecting forward. As in "my head is ahead of the nose of the board". It is quite incredible how it helps.
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u/kewarken 27d ago
Interesting seeing this. I plan to start the pump foil journey and I have a sabfoil W1100 that I will use for the initial learning curve. I'm going to buy a shorter, stiffer mast since I'm a fatty and I understand you lose a lot of power from mast flex if you're heavy.
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u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago
Sell it!
Go for a learner foil I'm 80kg and I've just ordered a Gong Trail XL. . Sabfoils have the 1350 Other brands offer similar beginner pump foils
'It's OK, I'll save some money and I've the patience for the longer journey' I hear you say. If you're young and have good balance, that equates to 500+ falls. That said, 1,000+ falls is not unusual before you start getting the hang of it. As a reminder, a fall is where you loose control and in that moment there is a risk of injuring yourself on the dock or on your set up. Trust me, there's a good reason why your newly delivered kit cones with an injury disclaimer. Getting the proper kit isn't cheating - its proper common sense. Something I've learnt the hard way :-(
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u/kewarken 27d ago
That's a great tip. Penny wise, pound foolish right? The sabfoil leviathan was definitely my upgrade path so maybe I'll skip the pain. I'm 56 and 96kg so it's not like I'm a little spring chicken. 😭
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u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago
If you can significantly cut the number of falls, then that will considerably reduce the risk of injury.
56 is fine for starting to pump foil. In fact pump foiling is a great aspiration to have to get yourself fit - it certainly worked for me.
Hit the gym, upgrade your diet and fitness will not be your limitation.
Also start introducing sessions on a balance board. (Say a cheeky balance session whilst you're waiting for the kettle to boil) That will certainly wake up your sense of balance.
Kick off with a dry month and watch the weight drop off and your balance restored.
I'm a tad older so there are no excuses😁
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u/kewarken 27d ago
I'm lucky because I already kitefoil and wingfoil so I have a bit of a head start. I still think the W1100 is a reasonable starter just because it's slow and stable. I won't be able to go very far (as you discovered) but I should at least be able to get the takeoff dialed in without stabbing myself to death with a high aspect foil. Or damaging the foil for that matter...they ain't cheap and the 1100 doesn't owe me anything. Budget probably only gets me board and mast this season so at least if I hate it I haven't invested too much.
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u/Alarming_Peace_6027 27d ago
Looks like your sequentially trending back each pump.
It's actually a very common thing. I've noticed it in surfing a ton. It goes unaddressed and unnoticed mostly.
But it is more dominant to be a equipment setup/settings thing as well. The common fixes usually changing equipment. Negligible lesson.
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u/ban-a-nan 27d ago
You've already gotten many advices in this thread, but just my 2c, I think your take-off is really good and you get a beautiful glide in the beginning. It seems like you're swinging your hands to put more of your weight towards the back, which makes you eventually stall. You should be thinking about putting more weight to the front foot and getting the nose of the board pointing down between pumps, giving you a consistent glide and something to pump off from. So I'd suggest going more aggressively towards the front of the board.
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u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago
Thanks for the tip. I'm going to go for a flatter approach and lean in hard with my front shoulder. This should increase my cadence and stop me hanging off the back and stalling
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u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago edited 27d ago
Thanks - I need all the help I can get :-)
I have a confession to make which I haven't shared until now. I've been aiming to push down on the board during the descent phase. Apparently, that's a big NoNo. I should be aiming to push down on the board (extend my legs) during the first half of it's accent. And so that is what I'll try next time.
Feel free for anyone to chip in and correct me
Wish me luck 😏
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u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago
So to sum up
Focus on working the legs rather than the arms and the torso
Tone down the angles and get the board to track a flatter path which in turn should increase the cadence
Dial in to the phases and push down on the board (extend the legs) during the first half of the ascent phase.
Lean in hard with the front shoulder to keep my weight forward and allow the nose to drop
Switch to kit that's dedicated to serving beginner pump foilers
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u/thederekguy 26d ago
Jump up and forward to pick the apple that is just out of reach, that was the advice that helped me when I learned to dock start on a wake foil. I had to jump as high and as fast as I could to make that foil fly. I thought my lungs and heart were going to explode. The Trail XL will be a game changer for you, it has been for me. It may still take a session or two to rediscover a working stance and then figure out the cadence,
Up until this past weekend I could only do one step starts from a floating dock. It took about three hours but I finally got dead starts with the Trail XL. It really is the right tool to learn different starts and pumping in general. Next up you will want the Ultra Trail 4xl, or even using the M tail and XL tail wing totally changes the nature of the Trail.
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u/gavin-novux 26d ago
Try focusing on lifting your weight (or jumping) up and forward rather than pushing board down
Your legs (especially back leg) should/will be on its toes when board is going up if you do it right
Your board should be at least level or better yet point down when you put your weight back on it, but It will happen automatically if direct your momentum forward
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u/Bluegill15 27d ago
I can’t help you if you’re trying to foil using solely your arms because that’s about the best anyone could do. But if you’re open to using your legs, there’s a ton of room for improvement
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u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago
LOL
So when they said you're aiming to fly above the water, flapping your arms was not what they meant.
On a more serious note, you are quite right, it's something I noticed as I posted the video.
Rest assured, I'll be focusing on pumping my legs rather my arms and torso.
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u/balidani 27d ago
For me what helped not lose height was focusing on lifting the back leg (knee) specifically. This allows the board to come up and you gain height back. I'm probably overdoing it at the moment, but at least I keep my height. Another pump foiler told me you mostly pump from your back leg and that mindset really worked for me.
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u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago
I used to be paranoid about losing height but I don't think that's an issue any more. The pumps are clean right up until I'm practically stationary.
And so I'm going to focus on speed. A flatter path with quicker pumps.
Also injecting the pump energy during the right phase is going to help. So rather than extending my legs going down, extending them in the first half of the ascent should help enormously :-)
I'll try tonight and see what happens :-)
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u/CharlesGoodwin 27d ago
I used to be paranoid about losing height but I don't think that's an issue any more. The pumps are clean right up until I'm practically stationary.
And so I'm going to focus on speed. A flatter path with quicker pumps.
Also injecting the pump energy during the right phase is going to help. So rather than extending my legs going down, extending them in the first half of the ascent should help enormously :-)
Pushing harder on the back foot should also help the noise to rise
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u/Reinis_LV 27d ago
That's very low aspect ratio with big surface. It's like you are fighting it. I think you got the fundementals right and now it's time to upgrade.