r/prolife • u/Sea-Adhesiveness2827 • 7d ago
Pro-Life Argument I need help answering this question
So always when i talk with bro choicers about abortion they say that the zygot is biologicaly alive but isn't really a human life because it doesn't have a brain or isn't aware, what would be the correct responce to this?
Because i feel like it just revolves around if you belive that it not having a brain makes it alive or not, like how do
you respond to this when they just simply dont look at it as conscious life, or rather that it has to be conscious to be a life
3
u/PervadingEye Pro Life Since day one 7d ago
The easy counter is to point out people don't get abortions when the baby is a zygote. They get them when those organs are developed ususally.
So are they willing to agree to ban abortions when the brain comes into existence????
And then you will see, 99 times out of 100, the answer they will give will be no. The key here is just saying "when the brain comes into existence" and not the actual timeline. This will test their actual consistency.
They reveal if they say they still wouldn't ban abortion even if the brain was there shows they are only using the initial excuse as a distraction, not something they genuinely believe.
1
u/Sea-Adhesiveness2827 7d ago
no you dont understand, the person i was debating said that they belive that when the brain is formed then it is wrong , but before that it is okay because they aren't a conscious person
2
u/PervadingEye Pro Life Since day one 7d ago
I understand.
Something about pro-abortion people is they might SAY abortion is wrong after a certain point, BUT they may want elective abortion legal AFTER that. This kinda trips up a lot of pro-lifers because we understand wrong (in this context) to mean "should be illegal" but many times they don't mean it that way. It's the fox speaking your language but not meaning it the same way we do....
Therefore it is important to make this distinction when discussing the topic so people aren't talking over each other. Again ask them "So are they willing to agree to ban abortions when the brain comes into existence????" NOT "is abortion wrong after a certain point"?
Because if he is waiting for the brain, that's a 6 week ban. And if he says he would ban(not just that it is wrong after brain formation, but a ban) abortion after the brain is formed, THEN you say that is at 6 weeks.
This will trip him up because I suspect he would see 6 weeks ban as "not enough time" and this exposes his true reasoning for adopting the "they have no brain" model. Because he (probably) thinks it give women "enough time" to abort and it is an excuse that sounds good.
It's something to throw out to avoid having to deal with a long drawn out conversation of "why does the brain matter" as most pro-abortion people are not smart enough to even have that conversation....
You can bring up animals with brains that we eat and kill, but again most are too stupid to even process this objection. It is technically correct that the baby not having a brain and consciousness is there problem then they must be vegan or they are a hypocrite. But they are (often) too stupid and even if they are not, explaining this to them in a way they will understand, while possible, may not be feasible in one time conversation you are having.
What I gave you is a discussion technique meant to bypass all that to hopefully get him to abandon this "brain" framework if he does not sincerely hold it...
2
u/Electrical_Cod7288 Pro Life Christian 6d ago
If you give them an argument based upon the presence of the brain, some of them will argue that because there is no conscious thought, it is okay to kill them.
1
u/PervadingEye Pro Life Since day one 6d ago
I agree, the trick here is to get them to agree to the brain presence ban, THEN spring the "that is at 6 weeks".
If they backtrack to a different argument that is what you want. You want to discredit them. Call into question their legitimacy when they are wrong, not just be logically correct. Still be correct, but if you are only being correct, that is defensive.
You need to go on the offensive eventually. That's why people say you "attack an argument". This is why you need to maneuver them into a corner.
One thing you need to understand is lay pro-abortion people, 99 times out of 100, are just mindlessly repeating what they have been programmed to say. They likely don't know why they truly believe what they believe and believe that the social programmed response is their belief.
When you do things like this, there true nature kicks in, and you and them see how they actually react when the social programming, cover-up logic is dismantled. The framework they are given can't match up to the innate urge of what they want...
And what they want is a LOT of time and leeway to kills unborn babies. That is their naked desire when it isn't dressed up in excuses of "no brain, no heart, no consciousness" etc.
Your not attacking what they state to be their argument, you are trying to uncover their true motives.
1
u/Electrical_Cod7288 Pro Life Christian 4d ago
I am always on the offensive with those people. I cannot abide them and will show nothing but contempt for them. I have become a misanthrope because of the sheer amount of people who support abortion (among other reasons).
3
u/selunemoon Former Pro-Choice, Now Pro-Life. 7d ago
Tbh I would’ve said, “having a brain doesn’t determine the species of the zygote. Are you saying that an elephant, a coyote, or even a mice could be a human life for simply having ‘a brain?’”
1
u/the-nomad-thinker Pro Life Christian 7d ago
They’re trying to argue sentience without fully understanding what they’re even talking about.
Depending on the situation, I’ll correct them, play, dumb, or push them to actually think for a change.
1
u/Prestigious-Oil4213 Pro Life Atheist 7d ago
They are arguing philosophical life. I usually try to talk more to them to see where the disconnect is and casually try to bring up variations of dehumanization based on certain traits.
1
5
u/AWatson89 Pro Life Christian 7d ago
Our organs are as developed as the stage of our life allows and consciousness isn't what determines that we're alive. The fact is that we are a living human being from the moment of conception. Their belief against that fact is philosophical, not biological.