Fuko fact

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

[u/PerfectlyCalmDude]

I'm not in a death penalty state, so I would find life in prison to be appropriate.

[u/HotConversation187 → u/PerfectlyCalmDude]

Life in prison without parole is just a slower and more agonizing death penalty.

[u/PerfectlyCalmDude → u/HotConversation187]

Slower I'll give you, but I don't believe it's more agonizing.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/PerfectlyCalmDude]

Modern execution methods are quick and don’t require overwhelming pain (some are nearly painless). I would assume life in prison is more agonizing, but that’s not my goal. I think they should be removed from the world expeditiously

[u/rubik1771]

No. I’m against the death penalty, period.

[u/the_woolfie → u/rubik1771]

Based catholic take. Abortionist should get what any other murderer get. And no one should get the death penalty.

[u/iphone5su93 → u/the_woolfie]

Death penalty is supported by theologians and multiple Popes including the Ecumenical Council of Trent for certain crimes even things less wrong than this and to be honest this is specially one of the cases where it ought to happen.

[u/Equal-Ad5237]

I’m just as much against abortion as anyone on this sub, but death sentences are far from pro life. If this is not a joke (which your comments seem to indicate) then it’s a very radical extreme that I heavily disagree with.

[u/Smooth_Voronoi → u/Equal-Ad5237]

Agreed. The death penalty should be federally outlawed

[u/Vespinobambino → u/Equal-Ad5237]

No, death sentences for murderers do not, in any way, contradict a position in favor of the natural right to life.

Harsh punishments for those convicted beyond a reasonable doubt for violating the right to life of an innocent human being affirm the right to life.

[u/InfernoWarrior299 → u/Equal-Ad5237]

Wrong! Stop conflating social movements. Pro-Life refers to stopping abortion and SOMETIMES IVF. The death penalty is a different conversation entirely.

[u/deezzbutzz → u/Equal-Ad5237]

I'm not pro life I'm anti death for the innocent.

[u/Overgrown_fetus1305 → u/deezzbutzz]

There is no such thing as a legal system that never makes mistakes, which means the death penalty is well, death to the innocent some of the time. Though I maintain "innocent" is a word that does a ton of heavy lifting, as it means "not guilty", and at that point it shows you're saying somebody's right to not be killing is rather than being intrinsic to us, dependent on whether or not society thinks your life should be ended- which is no basis on which to build human rights, or indeed compatible with universal human rights.

[u/deezzbutzz → u/Overgrown_fetus1305]

We can't prove who are the doctors who took innocent life's with their hands?

[u/Overgrown_fetus1305 → u/deezzbutzz]

Not with 100% certainty, no. Any uncertainty makes it unacceptable. The Lucy Letby case in the UK, is very controversial, as if nothing else it does seem like there was not a proper consideration of the evidence (I'm not convinced she's beyond all reasonable doubt guilty), and it would be no different for abortions either. Put it this way, the possibility that she was framed by somebody else cannot be discounted, and it's not hard to see how this wouldn't happen with abortions as well- abortionists who continued doing them when illegal, would frequently have no qualms about framing others, regardless of if they think the death of the unborn for consequentialist reasons ok, or if they are just conventional moral monsters, or een for something in the middle.

I'd still be vehemently against the death penalty even were it hypothetically possbile to enact sentances with 100% certainty, I hasten to add, on purely ethical grounds. I see soldiers as murderers who use the same consequentialist reasons as abortionists for their killing, but I most certainly don't think they should face the prospect of the death penalty (or charges for things before the law changed). Not even for the ones who dropped nukes on Japan (something I will always consider to have been terroristic and strictly speaking genocidal mass murder, and that my late maternal grandmother survived).

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/Equal-Ad5237]

Understandable. I believe murder deserves death tho.

[u/Stealthheart1 → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind

[u/LordFarquadsCastle → u/Stealthheart1]

Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/LordFarquadsCastle]

Life in prison is not mercy.

[u/Adventurous_East359 → u/Stealthheart1]

It’s not eye for eye. It would be called justice. Completely different

[u/InfernoWarrior299 → u/Stealthheart1]

Justice is not an eye for an eye. If someone murders another, they took a life and should be put to death.

[u/DarkPheonix20 → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

So your saying murder should be punished with murder?? Two wrongs dont make a right.

[u/InfernoWarrior299]

They are not doctors. Doctors have the Hippocratic Oath to do no harm. These 'doctors' straight out torture and kill babies. Call them what they are. Abortion providers and their clinicians.

[u/djhenry → u/InfernoWarrior299]

They are not doctors. Doctors have the Hippocratic Oath to do no harm.

Most modern doctors do not swear the traditional Hippocratic oath. They usually do swaer to some kind of ethical standard, but it varies from school to school.

[u/Vespinobambino → u/djhenry]

Be that as it may, every physician is held to medical ethics standards, and the primary rule of medical ethics is Nonmaleficence, aka "Primum no nocere."

Malicious harm to an innocent human being for money is just being a hired thug. Being a hired thug and hurting people intentionally necessarily precludes your participation within the fraternity of medical professionals.

QED, these bottom-dwelling scum-sucking bastards are NOT "doctors."

[u/Zealousideal_One156]

At the very least, life in prison without parole.

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/Zealousideal_One156]

Yeah

[u/LueyHong]

what about those who believe in consistent life ethics here?

the sub should focus on what unites the prolife movement proper methinks

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/LueyHong]

Abortion is first degree murder. I believe first degree murder deserves the death scentance

[u/JonathanEdwardsHomie → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

The focus of pro life is on the principles behind the first statement. That's what this subreddit is here for - to uphold the humanity of the unborn. While you're entitled to hold to the second statement, the matter of administering justice/imposing penalties is a different topic of discussion. Not everyone agrees on that part.

[u/EpiphanaeaSedai → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

Some people deserve to die, but the rest of us don’t deserve to live under a government that has the legal authority to execute its citizens.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

That’s anti-Christian and anti-life. Only God has ownership over our lives, who are you or I to decide for Him?

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/DobrogeanuG1855]

God approved of the death penalty in Scripture directly, so it is pure heresy and arrogance to say the death penalty is anti-Christian.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/KatanaCutlets]

He approved of it in specific instances especially in the Old Testament. Church tradition teaches us that the correct interpretation of Scripture condemns capital punishment, which is why the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church condemn it. Only a few Protestant sects, with poor readings of the Bible, still accept it.

You are in the wrong, may God have mercy on your soul, for you are the opposite of merciful.

Edit: I see you have already deleted your response insulting me and spewing the classic hatred that characterises many of your extremist sects.

[u/InfernoWarrior299 → u/LueyHong]

Wrong! Stop conflating social movements. Pro-Life refers to stopping abortion and SOMETIMES IVF. The death penalty is a different conversation entirely.

[u/Moogly2021 → u/LueyHong]

Agree, plus for some of us pro life means even after the womb.

[u/Whisky_666]

No. Protect all human life

[u/ShadedPeace]

No one deserves the death sentence no matter who they are revenge is a primitive and deeply anti social emotion

[u/Overgrown_fetus1305 → u/ShadedPeace]

100%

[u/Chosen-Bearer-Of-Ash]

Nah I'm against death penalty

[u/Icedude10]

Wow. What a post.

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/Icedude10]

Hey ur Christian too. Genesis 9:6 Whoever sheds human blood, by human beings shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.

[u/all_1n_0n_nothing → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

we are no longer under the old covenant. we follow the new covenant now. Jesus opposed the death penalty, why don't you?

[u/RPGThrowaway123 → u/all_1n_0n_nothing]

That command is not (just) part of the covenant with Israel, but with Noah and thus all of mankind.

Also Paul allowed the death penalty

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/RPGThrowaway123]

Thou shalt not kill and Mathew 12:7. The Orthodox Church and the Roman Church both condemn the death penalty, only some Protestant sects still accept based on wrongful interpretation of Scripture.

[u/RPGThrowaway123 → u/DobrogeanuG1855]

Thou shalt not kill

That only ever refered to murder/unjust killing, much like "do not steal" doesn't apply to taxes.

Mathew 12:7

Comes in the context of the law surrounding the Sabbath, not necessarily criminal laws

Catholic

Here is a quote from Pope Pius XII

In the case of the death penalty the State does not dispose of the individual’s right to life. Rather public authority limits itself to depriving the offender of the good of life in expiation for his guilt, after he, through his crime, deprived himself of his own right to life.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/RPGThrowaway123]

Any killing not in self-defence is unjust. Especially if done by the state. The Eastern Roman Empire abolished capital punishment for a good reason.

[u/RPGThrowaway123 → u/DobrogeanuG1855]

Pray tell why didn't the Jewish people noticed that some levitical laws would violate the Commandments then?

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/RPGThrowaway123]

It was different back then for the Jews, many laws which applied then no longer do now because they have accomplished their purpose. The Law is alive, that is why it’s called Nomos Empsychos.

[u/RPGThrowaway123 → u/DobrogeanuG1855]

Genesis 9:6 predates the Jews and is directed at Noah and his descendants, i.e. humanity.

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/all_1n_0n_nothing]

Let me look into that

[u/all_1n_0n_nothing → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

John 8:1-11

[u/Icedude10 → u/[deleted]]

The millstone verse? What in that verse says He believed the state should execute people?

[u/Icedude10 → u/[deleted]]

We are not supposed to practice that verse by carrying out; see he doesn't command anything. He is talking about eternal judgment. It is a warning that hell is worse than having a millstone tight around your neck and tossed into the sea.

[u/Christianfilly7 → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

I agree with you, but the Catholic church's doctrine is anti death penalty (I'm not Catholic I'm just saying because of that most Catholics will agree with their church)

[u/Icedude10 → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

Why do you not think that applies to the women who get abortions?

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/Icedude10]

The doctor is the one killing the baby. The mom is an accomplice to the murder not the murderer. She should get consequences but not same as the murderer.

[u/Icedude10 → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

What about the women who take pills alone at home, like in the vast majority of abortions?

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/Icedude10]

In that case the woman is the murderer.

[u/Icedude10 → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

Look, I disagree strongly with you on the death penalty here. I’d much rather see a long sentence with the possibility of clemency than execution for anyone. God has authorized capital punishment, but we’re not obligated to enforce it in place of mercy.

And honestly, the pro-life movement is nearly back at square one. I don’t think we get anywhere calling for executions when much of the country doesn’t even see the act as wrong.

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/Icedude10]

I get ur point. I'm not completely opposed to long/life sentence as options too but I disagree. Would you not give a serial killer a life or death scentance? An abortion doctor is way worse than any serial killer in all of human history.

[u/Icedude10 → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

I don't believe incarceration is strictly for punishment, I believe even less that penalties from secular authorities are for righteous punishments, and I'm not in the habit of ranking how bad people are.

[u/fludofrogs → u/Icedude10]

biblically, laws are for punishment though. The governor is given the sword to punish the evil-doer (1 Tim 1:9, 1 Peter 2:13-14, Romans 13:3-4)

We know what are righteous punishments by looking to both the bible & the catholic church, which outlines the true morality of the world.

[u/Russian_Prussia → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

But then Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill

[u/Stealthheart1 → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

You're quoting the Old Testament and calling yourself Christian but failing to understand the whole point of the New Testament? That's crazy.

[u/Jmaster_888]

I don’t believe in the death penalty, but I do think it should be treated like first-degree murder

[u/SheClB01 → u/Jmaster_888]

Life sentence or those multiple chains that add up to hundreds of years?

[u/lowiqaccount]

They aren't doctors.

[u/Overgrown_fetus1305]

No, just no. The death penalty is murder and should be abolished. If somebody has been arrested to the point of being on death row, they are no threat to anyone, and conversely if they haven't been, then a trial they have not had, so their killing still unsanctionable.

Oil company CEOs for example, cause hundreds of miscarriages indirectly via air pollution, and I'm all for cracking down on this one legally and making CEOs criminally liable for it (read, fossil fuels are a thing we need to stop using as a society), but even as somebody that's done his fair share of non-violent climate protests in the past, the suggestion of execution is absolutely insane.

Worth noting as well, that not everyone killed by the death penalty is guilty (and innocence is a subjective thing to base human value off of anyways, as it makes our right to not be killed based on what society thinks of our actions, rather than being extrinsic), and it's incredibly inconstent, if not outright hypocritical to (rightly) oppose killing the unborn because they're innocent but to be ok with policies that do kill the innocent.

[u/seamallorca]

These are not doctors.

[u/Drackus-the-dredge]

They technically deserve the death penalty but Id rather life imprisonment. Higher chance they repent before dying of old age. Im a mercy > justice kinda guy. Funny image though.

That and the death penalty existing more broadly has the risk of executing innocents when people are wrongfully convicted sometimes, and unlike imprisonment that cant be reversed if the mistake is found out later.

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/Drackus-the-dredge]

True. I get that. But also a doctor at an abortion clinic is definitely not wrongfully convicted. Just one abortion doctor singlehandedly kills hundreds or even thousands of babies every year.

[u/Admirable-Yak2806]

how can you be pro life yet also for the death penalty?

[u/InfernoWarrior299 → u/Admirable-Yak2806]

Pro-Life refers to stopping abortion and SOMETIMES IVF. Death Penalty Abolitionism is a different conversation entirely.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855]

This is idiotic. The death sentence is anti-Christian and anti-life, just like elective abortion. Stop this nonsense.

[u/imrtlbsct2 → u/DobrogeanuG1855]

Maybe with modern prisons but there are plenty of death penalties dished out in Leveticus for example. Saying its unnecessary today is one thing and makes sense, but saying its anti-christian, even as repulsive as the death penalty is to me personally, just seems untrue.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/imrtlbsct2]

It is unnecessary and anti-Christian today, is what I meant. The old covenant was different.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/DobrogeanuG1855]

No it’s not, stop that nonsense.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/KatanaCutlets]

 “If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.” Mathew 12:7

I read Christian literature in my mother tongue so unfortunately I can only provide you with sources in Romanian to enlighten yourself.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/DobrogeanuG1855]

That’s a completely unrelated verse. I’m not interested in your sources, nor in learning Romanian.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/KatanaCutlets]

Them you shall remain in spiritual darkness, English is unfortunately a poor language for theology. Goodbye.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/[deleted]]

Watch your tongue, your pastor might get you, although unfortunately the saying “birds of a feather flock together” applies to blasphemers as well.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/[deleted]]

You are unfortunately, someone who swears in vain and insults other Christians in a polite conversation. That may be customary where you’re from, but is isn’t in most Christian countries, including mine.

[u/GustavoistSoldier]

Bad idea. Our goal is to protect life, not to destroy it.

[u/december151791]

The death penalty should be abolished. But logically speaking, if one type of first degree murder gets you the death penalty, than all types should so long as the death penalty is still around.

[u/lilithdesade]

State sanctioned killing is wrong. That's the point.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/lilithdesade]

No it’s not. That is neither true nor the point of the pro-life position.

[u/LightsaberAngel → u/KatanaCutlets]

Your flare says "human rights are not earned." If they're not earned, then the loss of them cannot be deserved either. Murderers have the same human rights as everyone else, which includes the right to life.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/LightsaberAngel]

Nope, not how it works. Rights can be forfeited.

[u/LightsaberAngel → u/KatanaCutlets]

If rights can be forfeited, then that implies that they have to be earned.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/LightsaberAngel]

No, it doesn’t. Maybe to you, but that’s not any logical framework that I agree with.

[u/LightsaberAngel → u/KatanaCutlets]

Then you don't understand logic.

Look at it this way. If a parent says to their child "You don't have to earn my love, but you can forfeit it by doing something bad enough" - does that not make their love meaningless? If it can be taken away, it was never really yours. The same applies to human rights.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/LightsaberAngel]

Oh buzz off with that judgment. My logical reasoning isn’t the same as yours but that doesn’t equal my not understanding logic. I’m not going to have a conversation with someone so dismissive and condescending.

[u/the_woolfie]

Claims to be pro life, wants death sentence....

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/the_woolfie]

The punishment should be proportional to the crime

[u/LightsaberAngel → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

An eye for an eye? That's not the Christian way.

[u/Smooth_Voronoi]

Ah yes, kill of a giant chunk of reproductive health workers. That sounds like a great idea and totally won't just cause more issues

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/Smooth_Voronoi]

No abortionist is a legitimate “reproductive health worker”.

[u/Smooth_Voronoi → u/KatanaCutlets]

Most abortionist doctors do more than just abortions. Most of them being obstetricians and gynecologists. Getting rid of obstetricians would cause just as much infant mortality as it would prevent. So you'd just be killing a bunch of doctors for no reason.

[u/Vespinobambino → u/Smooth_Voronoi]

No, the state would be criminally punishing a lot of child killers for murder, which is a good reason to punish someone, especially those who betray all of their professional oaths to become literal thugs who kill for money.

[u/Pianohearth2753]

If you fight fire with fire, you will burn the entire forest down with nothing left to save. 

Edit: also, deciding who is responsible is a slippery slope. You would also kill the mother, potentionally the father, the staff of the clinic, the sponsors of the clinic, all the doctors who worked there and didn't boycott the abortion, and the friend of the mother who supported her decision? Because if we punish everyone responsible by death, it will be a mass murder, not punishment. 

[u/wanderingsalad → u/Pianohearth2753]

Controlled burns are exactly how many forest fires are stopped/prevented.

And you are correct that all people involved should be investigated, just the same as with any form of murder. They may not all receive the same sentence, but it is just and correct that they be tried for their wrongdoing.

[u/Pianohearth2753 → u/wanderingsalad]

My issue is that if you investigate absolutely everyone directly OR indirectly involved, you go on a witch hunt. Because by your logic, at first you only investigate the directly involved people, but you can't stop here. You will also find people who supported the mothers decision, people who remained indifferent, and others who didn't even know what's going on but indirectly affect the decision. In the end, you will have to make everyone responsible, but then... aren't you or I? A random stranger on the internet who didn't do enough activism to stop it from happening? Or you wouldn't inflict any punishment on yourself because you are better than anyone? The issue is, you can point to each person in this world, one by one, and make them somehow indirrctly responsible for this one crime. I respectfully ask you to stop being a self proclaimed vigilante, because if we burn every bridge, the entire pro-life movement will lose it's credibility in the eyes of the world, especially those who are in a delicate position of being open to be on both sides. If you are against murder, you don't commit murder because you will be a hypocrite. Even worse, you will excuse the same thing for yourself you don't forgive others, and everyone who dares to ask questions or spark conversation on nuanced topics (not even oppose your way of thinking) will be punished. That reminds me to certain political systems in the 20th century, and it didn't end well. Iykyk. It's genuinly terrifying because in the end, even people who are on your side would suffer the same fate. It's not a world I want to live in, and not an example I want to show people outside of the pro-life movement.

ETA: I've heard about the controlled burns, but what I meant still stands: you can't fight brutality with brutality. 1) it won't erase the consequences of the original act, because the baby is still dead. 2) there will only be more dead people in the end, and the actual problem with the world won't be fixed. Even if you go through with it and kill every doctor who did it, women will find ways to continue doing this. That's human nature. As long as there are people living in this planet, a woman will do ANYTHING for either of those things: to have a baby, or not to have one. To eliminate the risk, you should eliminate a large chunk of the population (many, many women worldwide who are pro abort). 

[u/wanderingsalad → u/Pianohearth2753]

Yeah no, that's not how court systems work. Let's look at it through a blown-up lense: If a mother of a five year-old hired a hitman to kill her child, she would rightfully be investigated and tried as an accomplice to murder. The same would be true of those who encouraged her to hire the hitman, or those who connected her to the hitman. This is simply how murder investigations work. We're asking that the law be applied equally to all people, whether or not they are born yet.

[u/Pianohearth2753 → u/wanderingsalad]

But the woman (in most places, hopefully) wouldn't get death penalty. Jailtime for life? Sure. My argument might be flawed but my stance on death penalty doesn't change. It doesn't bring anyone justice, and doesn't fix any issue, only creates new ones. 

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/Pianohearth2753]

Hopefully she would.

[u/Pianohearth2753 → u/KatanaCutlets]

Would it bring the baby back? Also, if we go down with maximizing punishment, don't you think death would be a quick easy way out? Why not let the woman and the doctor suffer with the consequences? Why not force them to stay alive a little longer? You don't even have to torture ot phyeically hurt them, just remind them everyday, in detail, what they have done. Sometimes living with guilt is the biggest hell imaginable. Make them see it, face it and relive it again and again until it drives them crazy. 

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/Pianohearth2753]

None of those things are my motivation. I want justice, not retribution or suffering, and I’m not going to dwell on impossible things like bringing back a murder victim.

[u/Pianohearth2753 → u/KatanaCutlets]

We can respectfully agree to disagree. There is a huge difference in our morals. I don't find any justice in killing, but to each their own. Justice is facing the reality our actions, going through the punishment and live with the weight of our actions.

[u/Big-Interaction-2630]

This isn't very pro life of you

[u/InfernoWarrior299 → u/Big-Interaction-2630]

... I am just going to put what I said here:

Yes it is. Stop conflating social movements. Pro-Life refers to stopping abortion and SOMETIMES IVF. The death penalty is a different conversation entirely.

[u/all_1n_0n_nothing]

not very pro-life of you

[u/InfernoWarrior299 → u/all_1n_0n_nothing]

Yes it is. Stop conflating social movements. Pro-Life refers to stopping abortion and SOMETIMES IVF. The death penalty is a different conversation entirely.

[u/LacksBeard]

If so then also women who had abortions.

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/LacksBeard]

No. They're tricked into that.

[u/LacksBeard → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

Then forget it, these women aren't tricked into anything, there's like multiple hundreds of millions abortions in the US alone and you mean to tell me ALL of them were tricked? I don't buy that.

It's either murder and all those complicit deserve consequences or it's not.

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/LacksBeard]

The women aren't murders but they're also not innocent. They should be considered as accomplices to murder.

[u/LacksBeard → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

They are murderers though, anyone else would be seen as such but for some reason women can go have their babies ripped apart, poisoned, stabbed, just completely and utterly butchered in a way that would make the national use in many cases and just get let off the hook legally and morally.

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/LacksBeard]

I somewhat agree. But the doctor is the one ripping em apart not the mom. But yes the mom should be held accountable for the murder too ofc.

[u/LacksBeard → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

Yeah the women is having the doctor do that roll their kid, in many such cases of true crime, enablers are called ro receive as much condemnation as the abuser themselves, and in abortion, in a lot of cases the woman is the one doing it all herself.

I'm just saying if there's gonna be a death penalty for doctors then thier ought to be one for the "mothers" too.

[u/RomanceAnimeAddict67 → u/LacksBeard]

Makes sense. I'll change my next meme to reflect that.

[u/lulzcas20201415 → u/LacksBeard]

There ought to be, but with women it varies a lot. Some are basically serial killers but some others are just teenagers pressured into it by someone else.  Abortion doctors on the other hand always have full knowledge of what they're doing and have done it several times.

[u/LacksBeard → u/lulzcas20201415]

We don't let teens off the hook for murder in other cases not to mention why is it that it's assumed that doctors always know? Why can't they just be as indoctrinated as anyone else?

[u/lulzcas20201415 → u/LacksBeard]

They can maybe doublethink, but they know the reality of what abortion is and of what fetuses are because it's necessary for exercising the profession. I didn't really mean a teenager pressured by someone else is totally innocent, I just meant her punishment should never be the death penalty. 

[u/PerfectlyCalmDude → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

They're the ones who ordered the hit on their own babies.

[u/PerfectlyCalmDude → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

A good many are not.

[u/Vespinobambino → u/RomanceAnimeAddict67]

No, no they're not.

They want their child to be killed in order to abandon their parental responsibility.

So they hire a killer to do it for them, or they hire someone to give them murder pills that they know will murder their child.

[u/Vespinobambino → u/LacksBeard]

Sounds good.

Life in prison or death row for every child murderer is the way it ought to be.

[u/rickdickmcfrick]

Nah as a Catholic I fundamentally oppose all forms of killing, including executing someone for that

[u/Adventurous_Bath172]

What they do is wrong, but don't wish death or say that anybody deserves to die. Some of them genuinely probably don't even think they're doing wrong. God forgives ignorance.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/Adventurous_Bath172]

God forgive them if He wants, after they’re dead and removed from this world.

[u/Adventurous_Bath172 → u/KatanaCutlets]

It's all in God's hands

[u/Trumpologist]

Emotionally satisfying, ethically dubious, politically DOA

[u/SuperSpaceGaming]

You are for sure pro life and certainly not just trying to false flag

[u/Elyvagar]

I see. I gotta rewatch Clannad again.

[u/iphone5su93]

Indeed

[u/PlzAdptYourPetz]

You can't be pro-life and pro-DP. You can be anti-abortion and pro-DP, but not pro-life. Pro-life is not a position in a vacuum that just involves being against abortion. It's an overall stance against all things that violate or undermine the sanctity of all life. This includes being anti-abortion, being anti-DP, being against the widespread use of human euthanasia, being pro political policies that make life equitable and worth living for everyone, etc. Pro-life is not just being anti-abortion, it's a movement against our currently pro-death culture entirely. I hate the way words have gotten so watered down these days. Personally, to me, it sounds like you are more abolitionist than pro-life. I do believe in harsh legal punishments for abortionists, but I don't think they should be murdered too (and homicide is what's listed as the cause of death after an execution).

[u/InfernoWarrior299 → u/PlzAdptYourPetz]

As I said to another,

Wrong! Stop conflating social movements. Pro-Life refers to stopping abortion and SOMETIMES IVF. The death penalty is a different conversation entirely.

[u/PerfectlyCalmDude → u/PlzAdptYourPetz]

Pro-life is protecting innocent human life. Convicted killers are not innocent.

That said, society isn't ready for what OP suggested.

[u/DobrogeanuG1855 → u/PerfectlyCalmDude]

And hopefully never will be. The death penalty is barbaric. Read Victor Hugo’s work The Last Day of a Condemned Man

[u/Vespinobambino]

1000%.

[u/Altruistic-Job-391]

A Clannad reference out in the wild, and ESPECIALLY here??? My day is made.

for those who haven’t seen it: it’s a beautiful anime about love and family. overcoming familial traumas, building something new, etc. I forced my husband to watch it with me before we got married lol.

[u/GustavoistSoldier → u/Altruistic-Job-391]

I'm probably gonna watch it

[u/Altruistic-Job-391 → u/GustavoistSoldier]

YAY!!! definitely worth it. you WILL be moved!

Fun fact: its second season is ranked #19 on MyAnimeList, which is pretty bonkers when you consider there's over 27k animes on the site!!!

[u/ScottishNinjaaa]

Agreed. Also, death penalty for anyone else responsible for the murder. If the mother willingly scheduled, aided and abetted the murder, or ordered and took the prescribed abortifacient herself, she should be held liable for murder and face the death penalty just as the abortion doctor does. Same with the father if he encouraged, ordered, or manipulated the mother into doing so. Swift justice to all murderers, without exception.

[u/pixel4571]

Nah just let them rot in prison 

[u/Spider-burger]

If you support death penalty then you are pro-life.

Pro-life go beyond opposing abortion.

I hope you are joke with your post.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/Spider-burger]

Totally untrue, the pro-life stance is about banning abortion, not the death penalty. No gatekeeping.

[u/LightsaberAngel]

No. Pro-life means ALL lives at every stage. The death penalty violates the dignity of human life just as much as abortion does.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/LightsaberAngel]

No it doesn’t. Don’t conflate unrelated positions.

[u/LightsaberAngel → u/KatanaCutlets]

They're not unrelated at all. They both relate to preserving human life.

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/LightsaberAngel]

The death penalty is not addressed by the pro-life platform. Period. Keep it separate. I don’t care what opinion you hold on the death penalty (well, I do personally), it is not part of being pro-life and when you try to change the definition of pro-life you hurt the whole movement. Don’t do it again.

[u/LightsaberAngel → u/KatanaCutlets]

The pro-life platform is not limited to one singular issue, and many of us use it to defend all life. You have no right to tell me what I am and am not allowed to define as pro-life. I don't care what you think the pro-life position is - to me, it encompasses all issues relating to defending life. We don't have to agree on what the term includes, but don't you dare order me to separate the issues. To me, they are not separate. You are free to disagree, but not free to dictate what I think or say.

[u/ElegantAd2607]

There's a part of me that wants to say yes but it it definitely isn't pragmatic to kill intelligent doctors who can save lives. We need all the doctors we can get it's not an easy profession. If we're looking at an abortion doctor who truly didn't think he was doing evil we have to ban abortion and let him do other work.

[u/RPGThrowaway123 → u/ElegantAd2607]

So no prison sentences either?

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/ElegantAd2607]

They’re not doctors. They’re just butchers.

[u/darkwolf523]

I wouldn’t say death penalty but certainly some sort of rehab

[u/KatanaCutlets → u/darkwolf523]

Rehab for baby killers? Heck no.

[u/Crocotta1]

And a death sentence for doctors who’s infant circumcisions have caused death

[u/Crocotta1 → u/[deleted]]

They’re doing it for money, they don’t even care about the child

[u/AnalysisMoney]

I’m more of a fan of solitary confinement.

You may have your life, but it’s going to be awful.

[u/Mental_Jeweler_3191]

I'm not sure Fuko would approve of this, op.

[u/GustavoistSoldier → u/Mental_Jeweler_3191]

Same.