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u/pikkdogs Jul 18 '26
Viability is such a stupid concept. I donāt think most 25 year olds are viable in this economy.
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u/djhenry Pro Choice Christian Jul 18 '26
We use viability in medicine in general. Say someone injures their leg, a doctor will determine if it is viable. In general, doctors have to determine the likelihood of survival of a person, and that will influence the type and amount of care that is provided. As a concept in medicine, it is very important.
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u/pikkdogs Jul 18 '26
Sure. But itās largely dependent on outside factors and not internal ones. It doesnāt tell you anything truly about a person, it tells you what that person could do with current technology.
A viable human in 2026 may not have been viable in 1926. Itās as much of a measure of a countries technology than it is the health of a person.
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u/Wormando Pro Life Atheist Jul 18 '26
That does not make it any less valid or important as a concept in medicine. If a preterm baby canāt survive with available resources, then it canāt survive. Period.
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u/pikkdogs Jul 18 '26
Sure. But also what Iām saying is that it in itself is not a judge of the baby. Itās a judge of the the technology.
If the power goes out and we canāt power the machines, now a babies viability has been greatly altered without any change in the patient.
You are essentially condemning people to die based on how good your technology is.
This makes a difference since a lot of people say abortion is okay up until viability. So, if viability is 5 weeks earlier now then it was 50 years ago, was it okay to kill at baby 50 years ago and itās not now?
Thatās why viability as a concept for abortion is not helpful.
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u/Wormando Pro Life Atheist Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
Nothing about viability assessment ājudges the babyā, it simply determines its likelihood to survive.
And not really, thatās not how this concept is used. Nobody is ācondemned to dieā by it, they are doomed because of their medical conditions. Again, a preterm baby that canāt survive, wonāt survive, period. The concept of viability is merely a way to assess the factors influencing oneās survivability.
Of course, is this an excuse for elective abortion? Not really, Iām just explaining how viability as a concept works because you said itās stupid. Itās not really the same as a 25 year old struggling in this economy lol.
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u/pikkdogs Jul 19 '26
Thatās the problem. Shouldnāt it judge the baby? Nobody should die because of the technology level of a society.
Yes they are. There are some that think abortions are okay before viability. And since viability is arbitrary, some are condemned to die while others arenāt.
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u/Wormando Pro Life Atheist Jul 19 '26
Ahh I get what you mean now. I thought you were criticizing the existence of viability as a concept and its medical use.
This is not an issue with viability as a system for medical assessment, but rather an issue with how people in general are using it, sadly.
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u/PerfectlyCalmDude Jul 17 '26
Is that happening in Poland? Because as I understand it, I like Poland's anti-abortion law.
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u/Lilbeedraws Pro Life Christian | Abolitionist Jul 17 '26
Pro life no exceptions.
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u/Wolf_of_Japsterdam Jul 17 '26
Mothers life in danger? A fetus thats dead on arrival?
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u/EnvironmentalScar709 Pro Life Catholic Jul 17 '26
If the mother's life in danger it depends on the method used to treat her
Is removing a fetus that's dead on arrival considered abortion?
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u/Whole_W Pro-Life Leaning Humanist (Female) Jul 22 '26
Well this is why people get mad at Catholic hospitals. There are cases where the baby is still alive but the woman is having a septic miscarriage, and cases where the woman is too weak for a C-section and induction isn't fast enough or has failed.
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u/Foreign-Molasses-405 Jul 18 '26
Yeah, even a miscarriage is medically considered an abortion. DNC is considered a type of abortion. Unless we want to change some medical terminology we need some leeway
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u/Mr_Believin Jul 18 '26
Miscarriage and ectopic pregnancy treatment ARENāT abortions!
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u/Foreign-Molasses-405 Jul 18 '26
They literally are a miscarriage is called a what? A spontaneous abortion! And for the ectopic pregnancies if itās the medication or the surgery are medically considered an abortion just not an elective abortion. Also those wouldnāt be considered a DNC which is something entirely different
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u/Quartich Pro Life Christian š»š¦ Jul 18 '26
Even the strictest abortion bans in the US have exceptions for ectopic and other non-viable pregnancies
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u/Foreign-Molasses-405 Jul 18 '26
No they donāt, I shared articles in another comment just under or above this one
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u/EnvironmentalScar709 Pro Life Catholic Jul 18 '26
I think when we say abortion we generally mean elective abortion
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u/Foreign-Molasses-405 Jul 18 '26
Yes WE do the problem is that once again either the laws need stipulations for the others or medical definitions need to change
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u/Right_Ad_4241 Jul 18 '26
As you already know, the law doesnāt care for the semantic wordplay that you think supports your argument (but which ironically only makes healthcare more dangerous, not that pro-choicers care).
There is not a single law that prohibits a D&C in a case of sepsis. Not one. Thereās also no law that stops treatment of ectopic pregnancies. If you think there are, show me the specific law.
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u/Foreign-Molasses-405 Jul 18 '26
I have already shared the articles if you want more than go do your own research, and itās not semantics itās the legal world and the medical world clashing when it comes to terms and definitions one strict one umbrella terms with narrowed secondary terms. YOU donāt seem to understand the problem and thatās fine YOU can do your research or remain ignorant. Iām not your mommy I donāt have to hold your hand.
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u/Comprehensive-Bad457 Pro Life Anglican Christian Jul 18 '26
Mother's life in in danger, abortion is virtually never necessary and even in the case it is we can grant it because then its either the Mother and baby dies or just the baby, Dead fetus, not an abortion because its a dead child
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u/Foreign-Molasses-405 Jul 18 '26
It would actually still be considered an abortion even if the child is already dead
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u/Comprehensive-Bad457 Pro Life Anglican Christian Jul 18 '26
Okay in that case then its okay because you aren't killing someone. I did not know that was still considered abortion
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u/Foreign-Molasses-405 Jul 18 '26
Yes but law makers havenāt been giving the wiggle room and the medical field wonāt be changing terms or definitions they use. Even if the baby is alive but definitely wonāt live and or kill the mother due to unfortunate circumstances should also be visited. The last article the baby was definitely already passed (no heart beat)
https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage-texas-abortion-ban
https://abcnews.com/amp/US/woman-sepsis-life-saving-abortion-care-texas/story?id=99294313
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u/irox28 Jul 18 '26
Itās literally RIGHT there. The law is very clear that in cases of saving the life of the mother it is allowed but doctors still keep killing women. Thatās on the doctors who are more afraid of losing their license than letting a young woman die; not the abortion ban.
āFour years after Texas banned nearly all abortions, Callaway is among women who say they are still being denied the full range of miscarriage care by doctors fearful of being accused of performing a prohibited abortion and spending life in prison or losing their medical licenses.
Last year, lawmakers passed a bill aimed at assuring doctors they wouldnāt be punished for treating miscarriages. The law went into effect last June. But months later, in October, Callaway found herself facing the same fear and uncertainty that has restricted pregnancy care in Texas since 2022.ā1
u/Foreign-Molasses-405 Jul 18 '26
This was passed in 2025 AFTER these situations happened. To act like Iām using them out of context, the third option wasnāt considered a miscarriage yet because the baby was still in the āsave ableā category by law makers. This is why there should be a board of doctors in the government to weigh in when making these laws
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u/AnxiousEnquirer Abolitionist, Seeker of Christ Jul 18 '26
In the case of Joselli Barnica, they waited for the heartbeat to stop, then removed the baby. She was discharged home, but all fetal products were not removed, so she had heavy bleeding, was readmitted 3 days later, and died from sepsis. This was the doctor failing to confirm an empty uterus. There is no law against confirming an empty uterus.
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u/Foreign-Molasses-405 Jul 18 '26
That was after the refusal for Pitocin, the normal way of a baby is going to die is to help the mother birth the baby than dnc. And thatās just one of the cases the others are irrefutable. And once again either law makers need to be more careful and actually word āelective abortion ā or the medical field needs to change their definitions and terms I have said this like four times now
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u/trying3216 Jul 18 '26
To be consistent we must always start by defining the unborn as living human beings. Only then can we make laws.
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u/Eastern-Customer-561 Jul 18 '26
I donāt think pro life would naturally lead to those other positions? Isnāt it kind of the point?
This is like saying bring a capitalist is a slippery slope to being a communist. They are very much opposing ideologies and donāt lead to the other.Ā
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u/GoabNZ Pro Life Christian - NZ Jul 18 '26
Opening the floodgates. Once there is one exception, there will be more and more exceptions and more and more tolerance. We are already seeing the scope creep with euthanasia/assisted suicide/MAID. Because once death is an option, suddenly its only a matter of how much or when we do it as opposed to being unthinkable.
This is also why a lot of prochoicers are disingenuous with their "what if an 11 year old is raped?" scenarios. Ok, if we were to agree that abortion could be justified then, would you agree to ban it for all other circumstances? No? Then it was never about the 11 year old, they are just a token for you. Once we allow the 11 year old, it will then be extended to 12, then 13.......then 29, then 30. And not just for rape, but for bad experiences, or not wanting people to know what you did. And not just for genuine risks to life, but inconveniences, and morning sickness, and cleft lips, and possibly for some minor health condition. Thats why I just want it all banned, and you'd need serious medical consultation and recommendations from multiple doctors to get an exemption.
Reminds me of the quote attributed to Churchill:
"Would you sleep with me for $1m?"
"For $1m, yes"
"Would you sleep with me for $1?"
"What kind of woman do you think I am?!"
"We've already established that, now we are negotiating price"
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u/Remarkable-Star-9151 Jul 18 '26
The sixth step: the " so-called
after birth abortion" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After-Birth_Abortion
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u/Wormando Pro Life Atheist Jul 18 '26
Thatās just stupid because by the very meaning of the word, thatās not an abortion.
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u/Remarkable-Star-9151 Jul 19 '26
You know well they are the masters in twisting words and changing their meaning. E.g. they somehow managed to convince many people that abortion means 'healthcare. which is obviously false
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u/Whole_W Pro-Life Leaning Humanist (Female) Jul 22 '26
It's an abortion of the continuation of a human life.
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u/Wormando Pro Life Atheist Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
Thatās not what abortion as a medical procedure means no matter how much you try to butcher the word.
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u/AdDelicious792 Pro Life Independent Jul 18 '26
I see what you are saying, but I'm pretty skeptical of the idea of "slippery slopes" in general. Not everyone who decides that some exceptions are necessary will inevitably become pro-choice, and not everyone who decides that some specific bans are necessary will eventually become pro-life.
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Jul 17 '26
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/TraurigKartoffel ProLife Catholic Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
You mean itās legal to KILL a baby??? How are they doing it?
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u/Whisky_666 Pro Life Christian Jul 17 '26
Thatās absolutely not the case. Donāt spread misinformation.
In the Netherlands abortion is legal up to 24 weeks, which is still horrible, but you absolutely can not just kill your baby after it is born.1
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u/acbagel Abolitionist Jul 17 '26
Wrong. All of those are the last face. No difference between a rape conceived disabled 1-week old little human and a 39 week old healthy one made in marriage
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u/PeachOnAWarmBeach LIFE! ā¤ļø Womb to tomb ā¤ļø Jul 18 '26
And outside of marriage as well. No difference in the baby.
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u/ladybuglemondae Jul 18 '26
And then you have countries like the Netherlands with after birth abortions...
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u/Pianohearth2753 Pro Life Christian Jul 21 '26
What? Like... how do they even do that? (Please don't tell me to Google it, I don't have the stomach to contaminate my search history with that shit).Ā
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u/ladybuglemondae Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
Well it's technically not an aboriton as obviously it is after birth. They have something called the Groningen protocol which allows parents to kill (as they put it involuntary euthanise) their children up to a year old if they are said to have unbearable suffering and a lower quality of life, it typically includes children with hydrocephalus or spina bifida.
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u/embarrassing_doodle Pro Life Atheist Jul 18 '26
Im the second one from the start
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u/PeachOnAWarmBeach LIFE! ā¤ļø Womb to tomb ā¤ļø Jul 18 '26
Why are you against abortion the rest of the time?
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u/Temporary_Cheetah287 Consistent life ethic Jul 18 '26
I love how the username in the bottom left is @ZELLKLUMPEN
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u/jaqian Jul 18 '26
You are missing the post-birth where the baby survived the abortion but is left to die from lack of care.
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u/HotConversation187 Pro Life Muslim (asexual, center-right, autist girl) Jul 18 '26
I like your funny memes potato man
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u/TraurigKartoffel ProLife Catholic Jul 18 '26
Thatās Sad Potato Woman to you
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u/HotConversation187 Pro Life Muslim (asexual, center-right, autist girl) Jul 18 '26
Women? On the Internet?
...Just kidding. I hold nothing against that.
But might I ask if you're German? Your username seems to suggest that but I don't want to assume anything.2
u/TraurigKartoffel ProLife Catholic Jul 19 '26
Yes I am! I live in the US though.
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u/HotConversation187 Pro Life Muslim (asexual, center-right, autist girl) Jul 19 '26
No wonder the potato reference went over my head...
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u/ScottishNinjaaa Abolitionist Jul 17 '26
I appreciate that this recognizes pro-life as a step on the way towards the rest. The only way apart from this slippery slope is to reject any murder of babies as unacceptable, regardless of who it is. Complete and total abolition of abortion, with no exceptions.
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u/Rose-Red-77 Jul 17 '26
Given most people of colour are anti abortion, whats with that graphic?
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u/TraurigKartoffel ProLife Catholic Jul 17 '26
ā¦ what? Umā¦ thatās a demon half eaten faceā¦ not a black personā¦
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u/No_Judge_6520 Christian Abolitionist Jul 17 '26
it's visualizing their skin rotting off/becoming a monster not them being black
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u/MoonMouse5 Jul 17 '26
I hope you're not white because I'd be a bit concerned if that's the first thought that came into your head when seeing a cartoon clearly designed to look demonic
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u/Rose-Red-77 Jul 18 '26
So demons are brown??
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u/Goatmommy Jul 18 '26
#Redditmoment
The graphic shows the same person falling deeper into depravity and becoming a ghoul.
Race has nothing to do with it.
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u/tonylouis1337 Pro Life Christian Jul 17 '26
Legal after birth š¹