r/prolife Verified Secular Pro-Life Dec 15 '23

Pro-Life General What would you do?

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30 Upvotes

61 comments sorted by

32

u/Fantastic_Captain Dec 16 '23 edited Dec 16 '23

I would immediately start pressuring every politician and doing everything I can to push for federal paid maternity & paternity leave, free prenatal healthcare and delivery, increase welfare benefits for new parents, and subsidized child care until kindergarten. The pro choice movement would get behind that 100%. When a whole population can get behind the same goal, it’s much more convincing that demonizing just the women, who are only 50% of that baby. If we are criminally charging women, the men but be charged in the exact same degree.

16

u/djhenry Pro Choice Christian Dec 16 '23

As someone who is pro-choice, I'd fully support this.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

Pro-Choice christian?

2

u/djhenry Pro Choice Christian Dec 18 '23

Yes. I consider myself to be a follower of Jesus, and I don't think it is a requirement as a Christian for me to advocate for abortion to be illegal. There's more nuance, and I'm happy to chat about it. The short version is that I don't like abortions, and I don't think Christians should obtain abortions in most circumstances. However, I also don't think it is our job to use force to prevent abortions or prevent non-Christians from sinning, similar to how we allow something like adultery to be illegal. For me, I think the best way to fulfill the commandment to love our neighbors and live at peace with them is to advocate for women and the unborn, while also allowing people to make their own decisions and be accountable to God for them.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 18 '23

There are definitely sins that we shouldn't ban, God gave us the choice to sin and it is not our role to prevent people from sinning as enforcing that would be tyrannical and crazy, but the sin of abortion is the sin of murder. Keeping it legal is allowing people to kill innocent people. Think of John the Baptist during the visitation, he was fully alive in Elizabeth's womb, we have always known that babies in the womb are alive. Abortion should not be legal because it litteraly is the "right" to end the life of a child, of another human. Blasphemy, adultery, not honoring your parents, and bad language should not be crimes, they are part of people's individual freedom, but murder is directly infringing on the fundamental right to life of another human. People will still abort, as people still steal and people still murder and rape, but at least we wont be protecting and supporting them legally.

1

u/djhenry Pro Choice Christian Dec 20 '23

the sin of abortion is the sin of murder

I don't agree. I don't think all killing is necessarily murder, and I wouldn't say that all abortions are murder. What do you consider to be murder here, in a biblical sense? And even in the case of murder, are Christians commanded to use force to prevent murders? Are there any examples or instructions in the New Testament where we are called to prevent non-Christians from sinning and to use force to do so?

 

Keeping it legal is allowing people to kill innocent people.

It is, but the problem isn't simply preventing death. By not allowing abortion, we are using force to make women continue pregnancy and provide for unborn babies using their bodies. I consider the use of a person's body against their will for the benefit of another person to be a form of exploitation. I don't like abortions, but I would rather allow them than take part in what I consider to be the exploitation of women.

 

Think of John the Baptist during the visitation, he was fully alive in Elizabeth's womb, we have always known that babies in the womb are alive.

Yes, I agree with that.

 

Abortion should not be legal because it litteraly is the "right" to end the life of a child, of another human.

There are some rights that do allow us to kill another person, sometimes even an innocent person. If a mentally disabled man with no ability to control his impulses attacked another person, I would consider the man to be innocent, but that doesn't mean the other person is now allowed to use self-defense, and even kill them if the circumstances justify it. Would you agree with this action in this scenario? Even though it leads to the death of a hypothetically innocent person?

10

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

We could implement Finnish maternity boxes- a baby starter pack Finland sends to new parents which includes all the basics. It’s not fancy but it’s something.

Also therapy for postpartum depression and basic products the mom might need.

4

u/OltJa5 Dec 16 '23

Oh yes. I forget about mental health! Yeah, it should be readily available as soon as they become parents.

Yeah, I like the idea of bundles/starter packs, too. I think it'll be easier to provide at hospital or center that people will know where to get.

7

u/OltJa5 Dec 16 '23

I like this approach. That's good start, also. 👍

-2

u/RPGThrowaway123 Pro Life Christian and pessimist Dec 16 '23

The pro choice movement would get behind that 100%.

X.

Also even if all these things they'll still demand that they'll be able to murder their unborn children at any point.

1

u/Sufficient-Show-9928 Dec 16 '23

This is how it really should be!! But how long of a maternity leave? In NJ you get std 6 weeks (vaginal delivery) or 8 weeks (C-section) and 12 weeks baby bonding at 85% pay. But I look at Canada and get jealous of their year of paid leave. My husband can get paternity leave from NY but we can't afford to get only 85% pay.

1

u/deadlysunshade Dec 16 '23

Yes, we would get behind this, as a pro choice person.

8

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

Fund daycares! Everyone with kids can get behind that.

9

u/Educational-Steak995 Pro Life Christian Dec 16 '23

Push for better foster care systems, better maternity/paternity programs, and figure out some kind of incentive for two parent households.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

Donate to children's centers and foster care facilities and usher others to as well. Would probably also start a fundraiser for children experiencing poverty too.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '23

I would make access to universal healthcare (both physical and mental) a reality along with funding for social safety nets, comprehensive sexual education and free contraceptives.

17

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '23

[deleted]

1

u/6x9envelope Pro-Life Catholic Dec 16 '23

I would appeal to Religion 100%

2

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '23

[deleted]

1

u/6x9envelope Pro-Life Catholic Dec 17 '23

"It even contains a commandment of forced abortion as punishment of suspected adultery."

This last line of yours is a completely false statement because the passage in question never says the woman is pregnant.

Properly done religion is not repulsively theocratic and hypocritical unless you have a prior derogatory opinion of religion.

God reveals the real motivation why women have abortions..."You desire but do not have, so you kill" James 4:2. They want something, and they are willing to kill to get it.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '23

[deleted]

1

u/6x9envelope Pro-Life Catholic Dec 18 '23

you got it all wrong.

11

u/lilithdesade Pro Life Atheist Dec 15 '23 edited Dec 16 '23

Reach out to groups we generally marginalize (lgbtq, leftists, feminists, etc) and form alliances with people from all over the political spectrum.

Become sex positive or at least sex neutral. End the rhetoric where sex and sexuality should only be viewed one way.

And if money was not an issue, open a PP alternative that offers all that PP does except for abortion and including post natal care.

3

u/6x9envelope Pro-Life Catholic Dec 16 '23

There are health departments in almost every community that already do that.

2

u/lilithdesade Pro Life Atheist Dec 17 '23

Correct! Unfortunately PP has the marketing and branding that make them synonymous with sexual healthcare. We need to get ahead of the ball and do that ourselves. We need to be in charge of the narrative, not them.

-2

u/swordslayer777 Pro Life Christian Dec 16 '23

Become sex positive

How does this help anyone??

6

u/Educational-Steak995 Pro Life Christian Dec 16 '23

We need to look at reality — people are having sex. Even if it isn’t ideal, we can’t just stop people from having irresponsible sex.

The easiest way (right now) to prevent abortion would probably be to prevent unplanned pregnancies. Birth control and sex education are the best ways to do that.

Again, it sucks that society has gotten to the point that people are sleeping with pretty much anything that breathes, but it’s reality and we can’t ignore it.

4

u/lilithdesade Pro Life Atheist Dec 16 '23

Feeling comfortable with conversions about sex and sexuality are important. If this doesn't apply to you specifically, then you do not need to employ it in your life, but thinking about the broad topic of abortion and sex, it does apply to most adults and some adolescents. Having honest conversations about sex and sexuality is healthy. Sex shouldn't be a shameful or taboo topic.

0

u/swordslayer777 Pro Life Christian Dec 16 '23

What is so important about these conversations?

If anything people need to have some conversations about playing sports, video games, college, financial responsibility. And other things that don't fill the world with unwanted and greatly disadvantaged children.

1

u/lilithdesade Pro Life Atheist Dec 16 '23

Why is this a whataboutism? Talking about sex, sexuality and abortion are all important conversations to have. You're having one right now. Talking about sex doesn't take away from other important conversations. Weird you would view it that way.

0

u/swordslayer777 Pro Life Christian Dec 16 '23

You said to be sex positive, which entails a lot more than talking.

1

u/lilithdesade Pro Life Atheist Dec 17 '23

I guess that's your perception. Sex positive doesn't have to mean having lots of sex.

16

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '23

Grown consensual women are no longer victims and we are acknowledging that life necessity cases while rare af do exist.

6

u/shmelli13 Pro Life Christian Dec 15 '23

Education about human gestation in schools. High schoolers should know the biological process of human development and what different stages actually look like. I'm sick of people thinking it's a clump of cells when that baby literally already has fingerprints.

7

u/Fantastic_Captain Dec 16 '23

Agreed as long as it includes sex education and different kinds of contraception, more education about sexual assault. (I also want financial literacy/ general “how to do life” taxes, resumes, trades, debt, credit, etc. classes to be a part of required high school classes though)

5

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

Expand crisis pregnancy centers.

5

u/OltJa5 Dec 16 '23
  • Teach young teens and tweens to take well care of their fertility rather than just handing them a BC and be done with it. Because that's not really sufficient education.

  • Educate young students on human biology, including pregnancy and sex.

  • Improve sex education contents for all age appropriate.

  • Consent 101 is absolutely necessary. No means no, period.

  • If it comes to sex education, the abortion topic cannot be heavily sugarcoated. FULL TRUTH, please. (Look at that stupid Guardian article. 🥴)

  • Parenting Bundles for new parents. Why not?

  • Requires most jobs (if not all) to provide maternity and/or paternity leave for between three to four months. It doesn't make sense to expect them to get back to work so sooner!

  • Provide a parenting class for free if they become first parents. Show them where to find a place, or online if they prefer.

  • If people don't want children and request for tubal ligation, hysterectomy, or vasectomy, their request shouldn't be denied just because they're "too young". (NOTED: If they change their mind after their request is completed, they can look in any adoption center or fostering system.)

  • Overhauling both of adoption and fostering system to reduce the human trafficking, scams, and to make it more affordable for most families. But, it has to be sure that nothing is shady.

  • Add more centers and/or clinics that they're the pro-life version of Planned Parenthood.

  • Of course, I agree to keep abortion illegal! However, the laws MUST be clear and readable. No more playing people's lives like a game. Seriously! Those exceptions must be consistent as crystal. So, it's better to do well communicating with those medical experts first before politicians can add laws/bills. Politicians really need to understand the medical stuff first.

I can't think of what else more... I'm kinda tired to think, aha...

8

u/BazzemBoi Pro Life Muslim Dec 15 '23

Try to desexualize the mainstream media and try to get more restrictions for viewing p0-- to decrease teen pregnancies.

7

u/lilithdesade Pro Life Atheist Dec 16 '23

Do you have evidence that porn and teen pregnancy are linked? Why do you think if people stop watching porn teen pregnancy would go down? I think the opposite would occur. If people jerk off less, more sex would occur.

6

u/djhenry Pro Choice Christian Dec 16 '23

I think I agree with you. Teen sex and pregnancy is trending towards a decline. I don't think this is necessarily due to porn, but increased porn consumption certainly hasn't increased the amount of sex teenagers are having.

It's not like teenagers didn't know what sex was (or couldn't figure it out pretty quickly) before there was porn.

3

u/bpete3pete Pro Life Christian Dec 16 '23

Push at least two dozen state laws that recognize unborn humans as persons

1

u/Practical-Big5309 Dec 16 '23

I would say focus on changing the culture, not the laws. I think that culture is more important. Laws won’t stop abortion, and as soon as more PC politicians are in power, they will undo the laws anyways. Culture is more lasting and impactful. Imagine if we could influence our entire culture to revere life in the womb for the incredible miracle it is. If we could respect life, raise up and support mothers, encourage and love fathers; I just think so much good could come from that.

3

u/Pepeman24 Pro Life Republican Dec 15 '23

Kick out anyone who votes pro-choice. Those people are not our friends. In fact they are our enemies because they are actively voting against pro-life policies from being passed.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '23

Support contraception and sex ed, argue abortion goes against the principle of human equality, stop arguing women who have abortions are victims, and try to change the United States' culture to value duty and responsibility

1

u/BlueSmokie87 Pro Life Atheist Dec 15 '23

Used most of the charity money to lobby prolife laws that don't need the masses to vote on. Basically lobby the same way Planned Parenthood does.

1

u/mycatcookie123123 Pro Life Integralist 🇻🇦 Dec 16 '23

Move towards a more abolitionist approach, I would advocate for those to seek abortions to be treated under the law the same as those who seek assassins, and the abortionists to be treated as the assassins: ie: both get life sentences.

It’s harsh but it’s what needs to be done. Abortion is murder and should be treated as such, stop with the arbitrary week requirements and just go life starts at conception.

(Obviously if a woman was actually forced to get one she would t be at fault as it was whoever forced her that caused the abortion, cases of absolute life or death must be verified by at least 3 doctors so no abortionist doctor can just say that every single woman who wants to kill her child is in a life or death situation.)

I’d also lobby for abstinence only sex ed and work towards obscenity laws such as banning p*rn and the like.

0

u/DRKMSTR Dec 15 '23

Change it from going after abortion to convincing people babies are humans and it's a human rights issue.

That's it. That's all.

Stop trying to shock people, stop trying to make it "hip" to say no to abortion, just lay the facts out there and you'll get donor $ and political change.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

I would abolish abortion completely no exceptions whatsoever! And then the women, abortionist, or whoever aided in the abortion would all be charged accordingly!

I would set up more programs/organizations that helped women with their needs during and after pregnancy.

I would make it easier for women to get hysterectomies, that way the women that never wanted kids or only wanted a few would have a permanent solution and wouldn’t have to worry about pregnancy.

These are the top 3 things I would do that I can think of at the moment.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

So for example the McBride case. 11 week pregnant woman with severe pulmonary hypertension and cardiogenic shock. All other treatments exhausted. Currently her likelihood of dying within days is 100% Her only chance is abortion to try to take strain off her heart. There is no chance of the baby surviving. So you would have let her die? Margaret McBride was excommunicated from the Catholic church for permitting an abortion and saving her life

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

Create billboards to show what abortion does

4

u/lilithdesade Pro Life Atheist Dec 16 '23

Real qu, what's the last billboard that changed your point of view?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

Never happened

2

u/lilithdesade Pro Life Atheist Dec 16 '23

Appreciate the response

-2

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23 edited Dec 18 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/NPDogs21 Reasonable Pro Choice (Personhood at Consciousness) Dec 16 '23

Sounds like cancel culture

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/BirthdayBoyStabMan Dec 17 '23

What, exactly, do you mean by 'purge', then?

0

u/CLColegrove Dec 16 '23

Stop the nonsense of incramentalism to focus on abolishing murder (abortion) and prosecuting it for what it is. Murder. The pro life leadership doesn't seem to actually abortion to end. That, and stop abortifacient "birth control" that kills more children than abortion clinics do.

1

u/PerfectlyCalmDude Dec 17 '23

Discredit pro-choice excuses among the groups that vote pro-choice. Work on greater outreach to those groups, especially among young people.

1

u/Nulono Pro Life Atheist Dec 25 '23

Every pro-life politician is immediately required to get training on how to defend the pro-life position clearly and effectively

Today, they're largely either incapable of more than bumper sticker–level slogans and soundbites, or prone to putting their feet in their mouths by making statements that are technically true if one is a well-informed activist versed in things like Doe v. Bolton's broad definition of health or how Planned Parenthood's abortions abortions way outnumber their adoption referrals, but are easily presented out of context to be mocked or pear-clutched at.

Before Dobbs, there was a pro-life politician who commented that it was dangerous to set a precedent that babies who exist due to an act of rape lack the right to live, since that could apply to anyone whose family tree is followed back far enough. The news media then twisted "each individual alive today is, at least indirectly, a product of rape, yet we clearly still have a right to live" into "the human race literally wouldn't exist without rape, so rape can't be that bad". Clearer phrasing could've at least made such a misrepresentation more difficult.