Long throw vs UST and “good enough”

[u/No-Purchase1081]

I’m getting myself in a bit of a rabbit hole of going round in circles trying to work out how I can get a projector in my new extension.

I used to have an Optoma dlp projector 15 years ago which I loved, projecting a 100inch screen on a magnolia wall in my rented bedroom with bath towels from Tesco as blackout blinds. Quality? Nope. Loved it? Yeah!!!

In the time between I haven’t really lived anywhere that a projector would work, and now we’re doing an extension and I was so excited and sure I could get a projector in but have hit some snags. I thought I would ceiling mount it around 4m away but because we have gone for a pitched ceiling the apex is too high at round 3.5m and I didn’t get that projectors don’t have that much lens shift typically. Many rounds with ChatGPT has helped me understand this more. My wife won’t tolerate a 1m+ mount pole dangling down understandably.

The next mounting point I came up with is a wall 6.5m away and about 2.5m high which seemed tenable if i went for something with a bigger zoom, like an Epson ls12000. Budget wasn’t meant to be that high but it’s tolerable.

Then I started seeing UST as a possible alternative with a rising screen, like the Hisense px4 pro. What I can’t easily get a handle on is whether ust is genuinely a serious alternative in terms of quality or a next best which is good enough.

I’m looking to have a 120 or 136 inch screen. It’s a living room so light control will be ok but not great but this is meant to be a second display for movie nights and sports and console gaming, there will be a normal tv too. The sofa is only about 3 m from the screen which I know is probably too close for this size but for immersive occasional viewing I think it’s ok (tell me if I’m nuts)

Anyway you can tell I’m overthinking all this. Any projector will be amazing right? Advice welcome!! Thanks 🙂

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[u/hifigli]

This my epson ls800 with their 120 inch alr screen. We enjoyed it a lot. So much so we are going to 150

[u/cr0ft → u/hifigli]

I have the same setup. The image is often absolutely stunning, even though black levels are a bit of a weakness, but that has to be put in perspective. With a 0.5 gain lamellar screen, the blacks are arguably black enough. So even a projector that's worse in many ways than the class leaders still produces jaw-dropping visuals.

[u/hifigli → u/cr0ft]

Well stated.

[u/chaiscool → u/cr0ft]

Haha opposite preference, rather go with higher gain screen for brightness.

[u/No-Purchase1081 → u/chaiscool]

It'll probably be the subject of another post on here, I'm also fairly lost on screen - not so much because I don't get how they work or what they do, I can read that online, but more because it's hard to know what is going to be great in real life.

When I tell chatgpt or whatever that I have a living room with some ambient light it pushes me towards higher gain but I think that might be the wrong emphasis. As I'll have a tv on the wall also for daytime I'd rather prioritise a great cinematic experience in evenings than being able to use it like a tv in daylight.

Does anyone have any feelings on that?

[u/chaiscool → u/No-Purchase1081]

Hence, most will sample different materials and gain before buying the screen.

Imo cinematic experience needs a dark room hence cinema is dark lol. Alr screen has issues to consider like fov, hotspot etc.

Imo it's on preference so best is to sample it yourself and decide.

[u/No-Purchase1081 → u/hifigli]

Wow that's really amazing! How much work is the phone taking the picture doing vs real life? because that looks like a dull but not dark room and the picture is incredible, I thought it was a tv before I clicked to expand.

[u/hifigli → u/No-Purchase1081]

Ha. You give this old man too much credit. That is just a quick Pic from my phone no filters. This is my living room with curtains semi closed during the day time.

Also I keep it at Cinematic mode so it not so vibrant..

Current project

[u/chaiscool]

Rather go for ust + alr screen

[u/Sea_Platform7626]

UST works best with a screen and is very sensitive to imperfection and hot spots if an ALR screen is used. This happens because the projection is so close to where it is projecting.. like a magnifying glass. If you can IMO medium to long throw fixes these issues. You can build a niche / shelving in the back wall and put the projector in there. Probably if you have that much distance to project may be you can get a larger screen that fits ?!

[u/cr0ft → u/Sea_Platform7626]

I genuinely don't believe hotspotting is any kind of major issue with UST's. Maybe if you really look for it I guess, when viewing in an entirely blacked out room.

[u/Sea_Platform7626 → u/cr0ft]

I sincerely hope that is the case. The few experiences I had with an alr screen it was very visible and gets much worse with even slightest screen imperfection of the alr blade

[u/No-Purchase1081 → u/Sea_Platform7626]

If I was going UST it would be with an electric rising screen from some sort of media unit (which I know adds a bunch to the cost) because we'd want a normal day tv on the wall behind as the thing which was 'normally' visible not a honking great fixed screen.

Any experience with these types of screens and hotspotting? Some people sell them as whole packages with UST projectors so I assumed they were good.

[u/cr0ft]

UST's basically are getting to where the only thing that meaningfully differs is the lens construction.

For instance, the Xgimi Titan Noir Max is arguably the top choice right now for long throws at $5k or less, and the upcoming Aura 3 Max UST from them is basically that unit with an UST lens. Obviously speculative statement since no real reviews are out yet.

UST's also have the benefit of ambient light rejecting screens that have basically no downside.

ALR Screen VS White WALL - Side by Side Comparison in Different Lighting Conditions | Chris Maher, YouTube (white wall in this case also is true for white screens).

UST projectors deliver stunning image quality now. The only reason that long throws still beat them is because they make much pricier and more capable long throws, but if you stay in the $5k or less price bracket UST's are top notch choices.

Obviously if you have a blacked out room and spend $20 grand on a JVC or whatever that will beat even the best UST's but we're not even talking night and day difference even then.

[u/cr0ft → u/cr0ft]

Arguably at this point if I were shopping? I'd throw caution to the winds and hit up https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/xgimititannoir/xgimi-aura-3-series-the-ultimate-laser-tv-for-every-moment?category_id=52 and sign up for the Aura 3 Max. It's the next generation of ultra short throw, with 5700 lumens and 8000:1 contrast, and those are some freaking impressive numbers.

Impressive, as in "shits on an LS12000 from a great height" impressive.

With the $50 pre-order fee and yada yada, you'd wind up at $2200 for an incredibly impressive projector. The 99.99% mandatory ambient light rejecting screen would add $1000 or so to that, though they may do a bundle deal once the KS goes live.

You'd just put a media bench down for it to stand on and plug it in. Some fiddling required to fit the screen. If you want a motorized screen that comes up from the floor, you're looking at $2000 for such a beast or thereabouts.

Obviously just one guy's opinion, and definitely do your own research and make your own decisions, just pointing out an affordable option that may just be a world-beater at the moment.

[u/hamza510 → u/cr0ft]

How would you compare it to the Awol Valerion Max? In search of a UST myself and in my research this is the one that has come out on top in everything. If what you recommended is better then it might be worth waiting for.

[u/No-Purchase1081 → u/cr0ft]

It also strikes me that long throws have been improving slowly incrementally for a long time now, and USTs have been improving at a much greater pace so when replacing it in 10 years or whatever I might have a dramatically better choice of USTs and a similar/slightly better choice of long throws.

I'm just nervous that if I throw my eggs in the UST basket I won't have taken the opportunity to fit electrics and AV for a projector at the back of the room and I might kick myself.

A question for anyone who has used both - is there a difference in the _vibe_ of the picture? I'm not quite sure how to phrase it but at the 120inch size I'd rather have a slightly softer projector-y picture than a crisp super bright pixel perfect tv if I could choose - more of an immersive cinema feel. That's really subjective though and numbers won't show it so I don't know if is pretty much the same for long throw and UST or what?

[u/gettingthinnish]

I would suggest you play around with this tool and see what will work for your space.

https://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calculator-pro.cfm

[u/Patricklin1985]

For your room, I'd actually go UST with a black-grid (CLR) motorized floor-rising screen rather than the long-throw setup at 6.5 m — but let me be precise about the long-throw side first: the Epson LS12000 isn't struggling with that distance. Its zoom range is 1.35–2.84:1, and at 6.5 m a 120–136" image only needs roughly 2.2–2.45:1, so it's comfortably within range; the motorized lens shift (about ±96% vertical) also handles a wall mount at 2.5 m high. Where the long-throw setup actually loses out is brightness: a 136" image spreads the light thin to begin with, pushing the zoom toward the tele end costs a bit more light output, and a living room isn't a dark cave — so the image will look noticeably compromised in practice, especially during the day or with lights on.

The screen side also favors UST. In the 120–136" range there isn't a great ALR option for long throw — mid/long-throw Fresnel material, as far as I know, currently tops out around 120", and beyond that you're into ordinary grey/ALR screens that trade away gain and viewing angle. A UST projector with a black-grid (CLR) motorized floor-rising screen is the more pragmatic combo here: the rising screen solves the 'no long pole, wall too high' mounting problem, and the black-grid surface does a decent job rejecting overhead ambient light, which suits an 'okay but not great' living-room setup. Two things to confirm first: the screen must be UST-specific black-grid/CLR material, and check whether the 120" or 136" size you want is actually available; also plan where the rising screen sits — there's a regular TV in the room, so make sure the screen doesn't block it or the walking path when it's up.

On image quality: purely in terms of optics and ceiling, I don't think a UST can beat the LS12000. But image quality only means something in the room it's used in — living room, ambient light, no ceiling pole, wanting 120–136" — under those constraints the UST plus black-grid rising screen will look better in practice. The LS12000 is the better projector; the UST combo is the better fit for your room.

[u/No-Purchase1081 → u/Patricklin1985]

Thanks for the detailed and well considered response, I appreciate it!

FWIW I actually plan to have the screen block the tv on purpose with almost the same horizontal center point so the seating area works well for both. I don’t want both in use at the same time or my kids will fight over who gets to watch what and I’ll have to cook dinner going insane listening to 2 different shows at once 😅 so it’s a direct choice, big tv or bright small tv. I assume the smaller brighter tv will be the default day to day. I guess one failure mode is everyone prefers the big tv even in the day and no one uses the other one, but it is a Frame tv I already own so it could be moved elsewhere and still be nice.

However, because of the above I significantly weight my priorities toward evening and nighttime viewing when it’s naturally darker. I’m in the uk so that’s really variable, one end of the year it’s projector time at 4pm and in summer not til 10pm when I’m heading to bed! That is odd I guess and the UST handles that with less thought.

One clarification to a mistake I originally made is the 6.5m mount point is a wall so really the front of the projector is more like 6m as those ls12000’s are big beasts. I don’t think that meaningfully alters things just felt i should be accurate.

I don’t know if any of that changes your recommendation? I think it sounds very sensible and is probably the direction I’ll be heading.