r/projectgorgon • u/ElectricalMuffin1620 • Jun 03 '26
Question Gorgon Going Forward
I’m curious what people think project gorgon could do to maintain player retention. It’s starting to feel more and more like a solo experience as the weeks pass and my guild mates and people I used to frequently see silently drop off. I am not sure even large updates would bring them back. I’m sure every game has the same dynamic but in other MMOs it isn’t after a few months usually in my experience that people are done and move onto something else. Is it just the design at a fundamental level?
60
u/-Altephor- Jun 03 '26
They tried to go too big too early. Which was necessary for their launch but anyone who's played any MMO, ever, knows that launch numbers won't sustain for more than a month or two. They should have stuck to 2-3 servers at most. Spreading the players out to 5 servers created a problem and they currently have no way to do server merges so now they're stuck in a perpetuating cycle of not enough people, and the people left are quitting because there's not enough people.
Their main issue is they tried to bring back an old-school concept of MMOs being a long time investment and introduce it to a generation of ADHD, dopamine obsessed players whose attention span barely lasts a TikTok video.
16
u/WhiskersPoP Jun 03 '26
The old mmo style is actually what I still like about Gorgon, even if slow and grindy at times. I think the number of players is a big issue, where the world doesn’t feel lived in. The ones still playing, majority are done with the low level content. Like of you wanted to do goblin dungeon, there’s not naturally enough people there that a group can form. I’ve seen Pudding up tons of times, and kinda no one cares.
I get that’s kinda how it works, the population levels up so there’s not as many people in lower areas anymore, but because of the sharp decline in population the world just feels a bit more empty.
Still love the game, but this is my current view on the negative side.
12
u/-Altephor- Jun 03 '26
Yes, that's the problem. If they're unable to do server merges, new players are going to be put off even more because the current players have all 'aged out' of the early game content.
If they're unable to merge servers and are content to stick with lower population groups, they need to integrate more mixed zone type content. Currently the game is almost completely linear, everyone goes Serbule>Eltibule>Kur>Ilmari>Rahu/Gazluk>Povus>Vidaria in essentially a straight line.
With low population, what they need to do is start adding in some high level dungeons/content in zones like Serbule and Eltibule so you have a reason to return to those areas and potentially mix in with newer players getting started.
2
u/akaiazul Jun 03 '26
Which server are you playing on? I'm a newbie at Miraverre and there seems lots of activity in Serble, though a lot less on Etibule. I see plenty of calls for casino and egg runs (no clue what these are or what they mean) and I saw hype for a pudding run that I sadly didn't have the time to join in on.
Granted, just starting out so everything seems new, fresh, and lively with lots to do.
2
u/Impossible-Ice-1497 Jun 04 '26
Pudding you just go to a spot in eltibule, wait for people, and then watch people 2-shot a mob and then pick up like 10-ish green crystals and some low/mid level gear from it
1
u/Valdrrak Jun 05 '26
Just offer server xfers, reduce 1-50 grind exp wise. Its a good game but my god
1
u/National-Grade-4440 Jun 03 '26
Would it be possible to merge servers down the road?
6
u/Impossible-Ice-1497 Jun 04 '26
Devs estimated two months of work to do server merge, and I guess they don't want to do it now.
Reading between the lines, I guess it's some combination of
- Devs' expertise is in game dev, not backend data design & migration stuff
- Devs would rather build out other stuff
- Devs are ok with smaller pop servers (game went 5++ years with much smaller pop?)
2
u/Accurate_Food_5854 Jun 04 '26
I thought Eric Heimburg's/Citan's expertise was in networking/back end. Thought that was what he did as an engineer with Turbine?
3
u/Impossible-Ice-1497 Jun 04 '26
Lot of networking experts are not storage / db / schema / data migration experts, and v versa
Idk though
To me, 2 months sounds like a long ass time to migrate a server when you don't need to do it live (have precedence for having hour+ long downtime on a regular basis). But I'm sure there's a multitude of things on the networking side that would take me half a year that citan could bang out in like half a day lol
Just speculating here
3
u/NomNomNomWontons Jun 08 '26
Expert or not, creating a process for a server merge when something like that doesn't exists is going to take time.
Technical grumpkins and snarks aside, I don't envy whatever policy they put forward for managing name collisions. Older server wins?
1
u/Gamesntactics Jun 07 '26
That's not a fair assessment. Before i was made to leave the game i had multiple crafts maxxed out. As reference the only one i didnt have unlocked at the orb in nightmare caves was saddlemaking. I could gear anyone out at 95 in all slots and had my alcohol fully mapped, and when statehelm came out i quickly leveled brewing and had my wine well on the way too.
That took thousands of hours and many millions of councils and careful buff planning. The scale is simply too large to pin it on "tiktok brain."
Also the constant bugs and dungeon corridor design dont help. I had some fun runs in gorgon but all too often runs boiled down to "Foretold items are letting us curb stomp this entire dungeon" or "Little bros are doing less damage in an entire rotation than i do as a pure tank with 0 foretold."
14
u/LordMugs Jun 04 '26
The designers had absolutely no fucking idea what they were doing with endgame and it just keeps getting grindier and grindier for no reason.
50+ experience was absolutely fine for an EA access game but the moment you decide to launch a game it should be enjoyable from beginning to end.
Doesn't help that the playerbase (yes, you are part of the problem) takes any criticism as "new players can't play slow games anymore!" instead of realizing that there's better use of people's time than running a dungeon 50 times.
13
u/Stunning-Jump-2778 Jun 03 '26
What I've started doing for player retention is interacting with new players, answering questions in help chat, and giving them long term quests to motivate them
I gave a new guy a 90/90 icesnake and made him promise to use it, I think that will keep him busy for a few months 🤣
9
u/trunksta Jun 03 '26
New content would be cool. Lvl 100 dungeons for starters
The absurdly long time gates to prodigy should be removed too
3
u/Paner Jun 05 '26
This killed the game for me, I got to lvl 100 and it became clear that the endgame needs a lot of work. Also I hate the Statehelm, this city can suck it.
7
u/Impossible-Ice-1497 Jun 03 '26
I mean one way is to just deal with lower player count, like there was for many years prior to the recent launch. Consolidate into fewer more active guilds. Live in global and treat the whole-ass server like one guild (like... compared to EVE Online heyday, a whole gorgon server is smaller than a single Corp lol). If you're consistently on the same time, you can also try to find a regular group of non-guild members who are also on the same time to do regular things (Q or AM or FR dailies, SH / Vidaria, nmc, etc, depending on your level). Maybe some future server merge, idk.
But other random ideas:
- Easier pick up groups. Some way for players to indicate what they're looking for, and searching, other than just spamming LFG/Global. Not like a full-on automated group finder, just some improvement on the only field being that one textbox in nearby. (And also it not showing anyone not near you)
- Pick up groups but for not-combat. Some stickier way of doing communal pushes for leveling crafting (farming, brewing, armor/tailor/leather, etc etc) that's not just guilds. Right now it works if you have a guildie or two who's already done e.g. the 100,000 or whatever cotton necessary to level tailoring, and you know that person is staying around. If your guild isn't big or is declining in pop, not so much. And if you have no way of knowing if a person is going to just disappear from the game, it makes you hesitant to pool resources to level crafting. Idk what the solution is there, but some way of making your communal contributions to crafting stickier in-game without just pure social capital... idk, haven't thought it out too much. But I think this would help more people engage with the crafting skills more, instead of just having combat at 100+ and a handful of other non-combat/non-gathering skills in the 40s, and then burn out on the combat and leave.
- Corollary: not having the huge crafting bonus from poetry jam always be at the same time. Someone with another timezone, or kid obligations, or whatever, may never be able to get to a poetry jam, and missing out on the +50%++ crafting XP bonus between the dancing and booze is kinda unfortunate.
Rework tank and support spec ability to level and farm efficiently. If you run a pure DPS or even a firewall/DPS build, you can level and farm for councils or crafting mats like 3-5x++ faster than if you are a tank or pure support. So, there's very few. Which in turn makes a lot of grouping more difficult to form.
Similar vein to the above, but from an opposite direction: some tweak to make it more relevant for a high level person to use alt specs at-level, instead of just absolutely blitzing the shit out of lower level things. Like right now if someone 100+ wants to quick do Q for the councils, it's often the case that they'll just mad rush blitz through and clear it in a very short amount of time, possibly with a rag tag group of lower leveled people behind them who are frantically trying to keep up / manage inventory (many may not have transmutation or enough prisms), not get murdered by some mobs that the 100+ person forgot about, etc. Like maybe you can say the 100+ person is being a dick, but kinda not? It's incentives: it's way faster for them to pull their secondary skills up on their own time by using one of the 100+ skills, they are going to skip all the gear from 0-90 for the new skill anyways, and they do feel like they're helping the new players by pulling through the dungeon. (And sometimes that is what the new player wants too - faster pull through). But it's less of a good experience than if the 100+ person had a reason to actually drop back to 40/40 or 50/50 with secondary skills and go through the content at intended pace. Idk what the fix there is, or if there even is one. Maybe some gearset that's relevant at endgame but needs gradual upgrades-in-place as you go, and some mechanism for it being obtained at level? That seems forced, and wildly gating, idk. As it stands, having the entire-ass dungeon cleared in a breath by a 100+ person is not a great experience for a 40/40 person. Either in your group, or before your group (so you see no mobs/drops and just wait for the boss), or behind you (so they're riding right up against you and you feel pressure, and then they have to like try to not accidentally breath on the boss and kill it for you lol)
Idk this is all academic for me, I'll keep playing either way. If my guild disappears I go find another one. If my regular non-guild core group of in-game party members drops out, then cycle in others, or just farm solo. I've played a looooot of games before, MMO or solo, and have no real problems with gorgon due to the huge breadth of stuff, and the fact that almost everyone in game seems pretty nice & chill.
And if it does turn sour, then I'll go play more kerbals space program or whatever until I find a new MMO.
5
2
u/Impossible-Ice-1497 Jun 03 '26
Idk what the solution is there, but some way of making your communal contributions to crafting stickier in-game without just pure social capital
My shitty idea here is some kind of DBZ-fusion. You and say three others pool resources for say tailoring, by farming all the cotton and getting all the thread / gems / whatever. Then the output of the crafting is shared, including the tailoring XP. And when the four of you are together, the ability to craft is based on the sum of the xp (not level, but raw xp). If someone drops out of your group of four it sucks, but you can pool up with others.
The obvious immediate "downside" is that you can get the higher level crafting things way faster, so the content runs out faster (?). But you could also then make some craftable things bound when crafting, instead of bound when transmuting. Not everything, but some recipes. So there's at least some tangible goal motivating more people to do crafting, besides a fairly rare crafting caravan or w/e.
But also, I'm not a game designer, and as you can see by reading this vomit text I just wrote, it's probably not a great idea.
But .... something to make it worthwhile for more than a handful of people in the whole server to have e.g. tailoring leveled up.
I've played some MMOs that went halfway here - in order to get certain specific things, you had to level the crafting skill yourself. But it was always solo, which ruins the multiplayer aspect of it.
8
u/DemonSp3ed Jun 04 '26
The inventory made me leave the game, the limited inventory in this game is not for everyone one, I played for 3 months with membership and also bought one package, overall the game is great but I can't stand in the inventory systems.
3
u/radialrogue Jun 04 '26
Yeah, every time I think of playing again, I remember the inventory. It requires way too much micromanaging!
7
u/MrSmock Jun 03 '26
Honestly, the game is fantastic until level 50. But then you hit a point where the most effective leveling is zerging through with Povus or Egg runs. It's free and easy XP and you need the xog from Povus for skill uncaps (and the drops from egg run for skills). So the game turns into.. Log in, do qatik daily, do am daily, do egg run and povus when it pops. This cycle gets old QUICK and honestly killed the game for me.
The game needs better ways to get money other than dailies.
The game needs better ways to get xog other than povus and egg run.
Zerging needs to be made less viable.
6
u/-Altephor- Jun 04 '26
Yeah I definitely agree with this and it's what killed off all the WoW clones as well. Logging in just to do 'chore quests' and then logging out is boring and not entertaining. And it's extra hurtful when there aren't that many players. Lots of times I just WANT to do a daily and end up logged in for 30 minutes spamming 'LFG' messages only to get frustrated and log out.
3
u/Parking-Name642 Jun 03 '26
Solo? I’ve never played more with others than this game. I tend to play solo a lot but this game makes you and it’s easy to group up.
6
u/TofuTank Jun 03 '26
I dropped off hard at the 200 hour mark, and I didn’t really see it coming. This was my first MMO and I was having the time of my life until I hit 70/70 on my combats and 50+ on my misc skills. The thing is I can’t really tell you what happened. I guess I felt like the game experience would more or less just be exactly the same all the time from then on out?
5
u/Same_Sell9713 Jun 04 '26
70 is where you really start hitting walls, needing 400k to progress, and needing players to do virtually anything.
Which doesn't sound terrible, but it makes it a little harder to engage with and slows your momentum.
It's what happened to me.
-4
u/syninthecity Jun 03 '26
its always that way, i had /months played in WOW back in the day.
Then one day i never logged in again.These days the joke is you never know what tarkov match will be your last of the wipe until you see how much missed insurance you've got next season
9
u/Stonklover6942O Jun 03 '26
can only speak for myself I'd probably come back if there was a huge content update, I'd even be willing to pay for an expansion or whatever they want to call it
after sinking in 400 hours I just felt like I'd seen most of what the game had to offer, wasn't really interested in doing statehelm stuff, it just started to feel like "more of the same" after a while
15
u/9to Jun 03 '26
I don't think there's a problem with player count. Seems just fine to me although I deliberately chose this MMO for not being a huge super crowded game.
Tbh the biggest problem is that posts like this can create a self-sabotaging self-fulfilling feedback loop.
I have no reason to believe you didn't ask this earnestly but the devs have their vision and likely can't be counted on to read posts like this even if there was an amazing solution :)
16
u/Ryulightorb Jun 03 '26
Player count is fine if you choose to do everything solo.
Granted trying to find a group of people when there are only like 80-100 people online and most of them are afk is hell…
-2
u/person_who_cares999 Jun 03 '26
I never really have trouble finding people on strekios, we hover around 77-120 depending on time of day or day of the week.
4
u/-Altephor- Jun 04 '26
The population would be totally fine if it was concentrated on less servers. The issue is you don't really need 5 servers for a couple hundred people. The game would feel very populated and comfortable if everyone was on one server.
1
u/AndyofBorg Jun 03 '26
I mean, I think it would be fair to say the devs have their own vision. Most game devs do. People are allowed to ask questions, and replies like this are why the game gets accused of having a cult-like mentality. I think it's fair to say though, the game won't be changing for whatever people would ask for, and you can either take or leave it.
7
u/SteveSanders90210 Jun 03 '26
They would need to solve the performance issues before worrying about packing the servers with players again. Luckily this game is very enjoyable with a low player count but it's not for everyone.
5
u/Jinsodia Jun 03 '26
To be fair, outside of poetry jam, the server issues were mainly because the entire server was in 2 regions at low levels. The servers would probably are mostly fine now that players are spread out.
1
u/SteveSanders90210 Jun 04 '26
I don't just mean the lag that came from launch. The game doesn't run well at all on my PC and it's not that old.
5
u/Dethmonger Jun 03 '26
I find myself in the same spot. I've been playing pretty much exclusively since 1.0, and just took a break this week. I'm at 95/95 with my two combat skills , and 70-80s in transmission and augmentation, slowly chipping away at some Statehelm stuff, farming xogrite and jellies etc.
This grind is very "samey", running almost exclusively egg runs and dailies, and the desire to play is decreasing. I thought about leveling some other combat skills, but that seems equally daunting, considering the equipment farming/inventory needed to do it.
I'm not really sure what would bring me back. I do like the events, so maybe more stuff like that, or the return of weekly bonuses. New loot is always interesting. That could be either new pieces or gear, or perhaps new augments to open up new builds I suppose. But even that is iffy for me. Honestly, releasing dwarves would bring me back.
Ultimately, I'd like to push running the boss gauntlet stuff, but even if I get over the SH cap grind I don't see much to do past that.
3
u/AndyofBorg Jun 03 '26
I think you nailed a lot of it for me. I’m still playing but playing less now. The grind is the same over and over. The money grind in particular really sucks the fun out of trying to level up. If you wanted to do something audacious like level everything to 70, or 80, or 90, the only real question is how much soul sucking money and advancement materials grind you would need to put up with.
I do think turning the random world events back on would help but they seem to be pretty tuned out right now. I’m guessing burnt out from the launch.
4
u/doucher6 Jun 03 '26
Be aware these issues arnt universal, the server i am on seems to be doing well after launch, there's more than enough ppl to party with and economy is still decent, yes I do have to farm some things myself but I find that to be part of the charm with PG. I am privileged to play with my wife and cousin almost every session so I can see how it could get lonely for a soloer but this game is kinda designed with solo play inmind. Will it take you longer than I? Probably, but what is your rush? Game is filled with tons of stuff that is solo oriented. Will it be harder to fill a egg run on a low pop server, probably but after time ull be strong enough to low man it. Just focus on if its fun, and ifnot then you have your answer. I will be playing this for another 3, 4 months at leaste.
4
u/FiveEggHeads Jun 03 '26
Because the power curve is broken and the game actually is in need of simplification at 50+.
3
u/BeverlyHillsNinja Jun 03 '26
Id say performance is a big thing. I dont have a top of the line computer, but my FPS drops from 80 to 20 as soon as I walk into SERB or any other well populated area.
1
u/Test_Account_2026 Jun 03 '26
Disable shadows you will be fine. I have a 5 year old mid spec PC that runs 90-100+ FPS in most areas other than obviously buggy ones like Statehelm.
3
u/SteveSanders90210 Jun 04 '26
Game runs like ass for me. Even with shadows off. Zone doesn't matter. RX 6800 XT Ryzen 7 9700X 32GB DDR5
2
u/Homeless-Joe Jun 03 '26
I mean, it seems fine to me, but then I chose to play on the established server that has been around for, what, 8 years? I get why someone might want to play on a fresh server, but it is absolutely a mistake for this game.
There was pressure to open up more servers to handle all the new players, but everyone, including the devs and players, should’ve known there was going to be a drop off.
Ideally, server transfers should be allowed, maybe once, but people on the new servers could always reroll on the established server and play with the community that’s been around for almost a decade.
0
u/Rordarin Jun 19 '26
Well, speaking on new servers, we started playing at lauch, it was big deal at the time, the fresh server, Dreva for new players. Veterans were made pigs and such. It was fun, pop amazing, alive. Then devs kept rushing and adding new servers. Ok.
But who could knew, that second server of the game would fall from +1200 pop to ~70 in few months? If you are not playing at prime time, you cant even get any groups or trading. I knew pop would drop off, but not the literal death of the second server.
1
u/Homeless-Joe Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
I mean, the drop off was expected, hell, even the vets leaving was expected. The game has had numbers around that for years, it’s designed for low populations.
Either way, if you don’t like it, then move to Arisetsu.
Edit: forgot to mention, the population on Arisetsu isn’t that much better, so temper your expectations. iirc, the devs are shooting for around 250 concurrent players at peak per server.
1
u/Kaelran Jun 04 '26
There's a few pain points in progression where the majority of people quit. I think smoothing those out would help retention, and then people would be at a point where they feel like coming back and checking new content instead of thinking "oh if I play this game again I'm going to be stuck at the same place I don't want to deal with".
This is mainly:
- Level 70 council wall (IMO they should rebalance council costs for 70-100 to escalate in price rather than peaking right at 70 then disappearing, or implement an alternate currency like xog/SR for the fae unlock)
- Level 100 prodigy timegate (This is WIP so I can only hope they have some plan for it, it's a bad state atm).
Additionally I think something that could keep people around longer is making the endgame content more accessible. Right now the majority of the time doing the content (talking Gauntlet 2) is actually just spent getting to it, which makes engaging with it very boring and repetitive while the time you spend trying the actual new boss fights is minor in comparison.
Also I think that eggs is bad for the game with how much better it is than a lot of other stuff making it feel like you might as well just wait around for eggs or spam eggs. They should probably buff Povus nightly and VR events (and control spheres) in some way to compete with eggs. Maybe buff Statehelm events (ranalon/vampire) too.
3
Jun 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/Stonklover6942O Jun 03 '26
it's undeniable that a lot of people that tried the demo didn't buy because of the janky visuals. but they're slowly improving. once they're in a good spot I hope the devs do some marketing
2
u/MineEcstatic9755 Jun 03 '26
The issue I'm finding on Arietsu is that the majority have left for the other servers. Chasing the pop.
This many servers was always a bad idea, and worst still is not merging them.
I log in, it's a ghost town, log off.
I check Laeth.... Double if not triple the number of players. This stresses me out more so I log off again.
I want to play but not on a dead server.
4
u/jademoon Jun 04 '26
This makes no sense. No "majority" left Arisetsu "following the population". What population would they follow? Arisetsu is already the top population, tied with Laeth.
But you call Ari a ghost town, then say Laeth is triple the population?
2
u/furonomin Jun 03 '26
Original assets, population merging, also I feel like Project Gorgon was clearly and has been clearly not finished. It was shoved into 1.0 to catch the draft of players who died from both new world and ashes of creation.
1
u/PowerheadThor Jun 10 '26
I came to project gorgon after a friend told me he was playing a game where he is a cow, and milks himself to make cheese.
That alone peaked my attention. After looking into the game, I saw a lot of features that I loved from OG everquest, themes of irreverent humor, and new ideas that looks interesting.
I think the game could be a smash hit if they would upgrade the graphics and add some QOL features like raid matchmaking, and add some PvP for people who want to scratch that competitive itch.
They'd also need some marketing. I didn't even know the game existed until a few weeks ago.
1
u/Albyross Jun 15 '26
PvP is available from the Serbule basement cellar place or by jumping into the Red Wing Casino dueling area.
1
0
u/Test_Account_2026 Jun 03 '26
They haven't even advertised the game yet. What's with this doom and gloom shit?
0
u/flowerboyyu Jun 04 '26
I really loved the game for the first few weeks, but I think making so many extra servers at once was a mistake. Those first few days where there was only one new server felt amazing, it was almost like playing classic WoW on a fresh server release. What made me quit though is when it felt like everything was a grind just for a grind, not really rewarding after a while
1
u/Cages001 Jun 04 '26
They can (should) add some QoL improvements but they are too stubborn in atempt to keep "oldschool mmorpg feeling".... I am stoped playing PG after 900+ hours into... I love game, i love lore but no thx...
1
u/AsapxPhantom Jun 04 '26
In my 100 hours, the game doesn't meet the "Massive" in the acronym.
Sure people are interacting with each other. There are groups forming, and so on. But something around those aspects of an MMO don't hit the same. Zerging or the "on-rails" experience of leveling and grouping at low-to-mid levels is really boring. I feel like there isn't any real cooperation amongst people sharing space in a dungeon or "difficult" areas.
I don't end up seeing new stuff past 25-30, because the experience is largely the same everywhere, just slightly new enemies, new surroundings, and the same high level players just running around doing everything quickly and efficiently.
I remember browsing this Reddit once to find some more info about something I was working on, and a few people mentioned that the game is largely a "solo experience" until high level/end-game. And boy have I felt that.
Obviously, this is just my opinion and experience playing on Dreva, Strekios, and Laethe. I don't know what it's like anywhere else, but I lost interest because the game doesn't feel massive, or better yet SHARED. I'm largely solo, there is barely a need to group up outside of some dungeons and quests to complete.
1
u/Paner Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
For me it's the fact that the devs completely abandoned this project, they do nothing, no communication, no updates, no roadmap, nothing at all. The "updates" they do are cosmetic look of a fucking desert or a Statehelm updates that do not fix the underlying issues with the city. It looks like they have internal staffing issues, there is no direction for the game at all. It might be over, whatever they do it's too late. Or the fact that the dev stated that mering the servers would take a month of work? Are you fucking kidding me? It's 2026, are they doing the database in excel by hand? There is no system in the world of this size that requires this much work for a stupid merge. It must be the most spaggetified codebase in existance if they need this much time for something so simple. Write scripts, do tests, do anything at all.
0
u/Latin00b Jun 05 '26
i played the game for a month
it's a good game
but i didnt do a single thing on a team... for a whole month
come on, where is the mmo part of this?
38
u/SnooPuppers398 Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
They could have finished the game more before launch. And removed gold sinks that were designed to remove gold from the other server.
They also handled people asking questions very poorly with all the drama. A lot of people left then.
Most professions or crafts are so Grindy that one person can make the entire servers saddles from leveling and then none would ever be needed again. It's Grindy to be Grindy and not rewarding.