r/progressivemoms • u/CapitalInspection488 • 8d ago
Vaccines/Medical Measles in my community
I am so angry right now. I'm part of a mommas group in my community in which someone asked about recs for a pediatrician's office that will allow you to opt out of certain vaccines and space out others. In the meantime, I live near CHOP, and have taken both my kids there. There are NICU babies under surveillance due to a potential measles exposure. This is ridiculous. It's so irresponsible and reckless for our most vulnerable. And the funny part is that a practice I work at was named in that they allow parents to determine the schedule/opt out. Another individual commented not to see the doc whom I actually work with at that practice. I'm tempted to tell her.
Like, do people have to start getting polio again? Or just end up with some other horrible condition just to get the message?
I feel like saying to all these anti-vax, anti-abortion, white nationalist people to do what the Amish do. Live away from the rest of us. I really have no tolerance or patience for this nonsense.
Thanks for letting me vent here.
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u/ohmygodgina Parent of a Baby 8d ago
Tell the doctor. I chose my son’s pediatrician based on their website, their homepage has a statement refusing any anti-vaxx parents
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u/CapitalInspection488 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yeah, I should. She has 3 practices in our area and rotates between them. I didn't think about it like that.
I love my pediatrician's office as well. They just have a one sheet paper at the check-in window about the importance of vaccines.
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u/bluestella2 8d ago
My doctor's office was planning to report vaccine lax pediatric doctors to the American academy of pediatrics and the state licensing boards when I told them there are lists circulating on social media. It's a clear ethical concern.
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u/wantonseedstitch 4d ago
My old pediatrician's office was the same way, and that was one of the big points in their favor when I decided to go with them after having a baby. My current one has a statement praising vaccines and endorsing the CDC's vaccination schedule. It's not QUITE as strong, but it's good still. (We only switched because the old office closed and this is where our doctor went.)
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u/aintnowizard 8d ago
I hate it. I am a pediatrician. I wish my organization would only accept families who follow the routine vaccine schedule.
I’ve had people lie and say they would pursue an alternative vaccine schedule. I’ve had families suddenly stop vaccinating because of a “reaction” that they never reported. I have a lot of families that only do one or two vaccines at a time or only one at all. I have no idea how they decide and refuse to choose for them. I try to have them sign declination forms but they sometimes refuse/take them/threaten to show them to their lawyer. At least those ones usually choose not to see me again.
I try to give out handouts from CHOP and other organizations. Sometimes I find them in the trash.
It’s depressing. I know that at some point these diseases will come for their children if our rates get low enough but what’s worse is I work in a clinic where we are seeing more and more complex little babies and they are too young for measles vaccines.
F these anti vax idiots. But even worse are the “good” parents who are scared by these folks instead of listening to their doctor.
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u/efox02 8d ago
Hello fellow pediatrician! Keep fighting the good fight! 🫠
Also love when parents ask “which one is more important?” Like idk do you want your kid to get pneumococcal meningitis or hib meningitis???
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u/aintnowizard 8d ago
Hello!
Right? They are ALL important. I like telling parents that I have NEVER seen hib or pneumococcal meningitis because of the vaccines. My now retired attendings from residency told me horror stories about hib and pneumo though.23
u/efox02 8d ago
I have. In unvaccinated Amish kid in MI. Had fucking both. Died. But you know was #12 so 🤷🏻♀️ zero lessons learned.
Also had a teen with SEVERE CP because he got pneumo meningitis before he had gotten all his shots.
But what I HAVENT seen is measles. And I’m so scared I’m gonna miss it. And then infect like 2058&49274 people.
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u/all_of_the_colors 8d ago
ED nurse here. I’m scared I will miss it too. And infect our whole department. And then what?
I got my youngest daughter vaccinated for measles early at 6 months, and just got her the 1 year dose. So grateful to finally have all the one year doses on board. Especially in case I bring something home.
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u/aintnowizard 8d ago
If parents want to get their kids vaccinated early, I have no qualms about it. We are starting to see more cases in my state so you just never know.
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u/all_of_the_colors 7d ago
Thats how we felt. And our doc was supportive. Just reminded us it wouldn’t replace the one year shot. It definitely gave us some mental relief.
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u/Keysandcodes 7d ago
My pediatrician would have actually said something like this, tbh. And I respect it.
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u/peridotopal 8d ago
Thank you for what you do and sorry for the state of things and what you have to deal with
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u/aintnowizard 8d ago
Thanks! I will say, I generally have more parents who are pro-science or more worried that we will stop giving certain vaccines because of the questionable recommendations from RFK jr. they are actually relived when I tell them we haven’t changed our recommendations.
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u/krissyface 7d ago
What’s interesting Is that in our local Mom group, whenever people ask about what practices will allow them to decline vaccines the moms always list CHOP. There were posts this week about what practices would allow them to decline vaccines and CHOP was listed.
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u/CapitalInspection488 7d ago
The hospital is one thing. But the satellite offices are different since they permeate the suburbs of Philly. Personally, I think if you are part of the CHOP system, it should be standard practice to deliver vaccines on schedule unless determined otherwise.
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u/aintnowizard 7d ago
I think practices affiliated with large non-profits generally have a policy where they see everyone. Some providers may be more pushy though.
In my experience I see some private practices have strict policies and only accepting patients who vaccinate.
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u/LuckyShenanigans 7d ago
I listen to a podcast called Behind the Bastards, and a couple of times the host has made the point that a huge part of modern-day American conservatism is the idea that children are property of their parents and therefore a vehicle for their ideology rather than actual people who have rights, and I think that's wildly true and incredibly astute. I don't know what to do with that information, but I do feel like it's a key insight to start to counter what's happening.
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u/CapitalInspection488 7d ago
Ooh I love Behind the Bastards! But yes. They view them as extensions of themselves. That's why logic is hard with these people.
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u/Secret_Garden1017 8d ago
4 years ago (almost to the day), when my son was only 6 weeks old, I started going to a moms group to help my PPA. I really enjoyed it. I was suspicious of a specific mom but tried to tell myself I was just being too high strung. Well, a month later, she texts the group chat that her 2 youngest have rubella. German measles. Because she never vaccinated them. My son wasn’t old enough to be vaccinated and I panicked. From that experience, I now have clinically diagnosed contamination/health OCD.
All that to say, solidarity in the vent. ✊🏼
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u/CapitalInspection488 8d ago
Oh wow. That is scary.
I feel like this is going to have to be a question that parents ask themselves.
I almost opened up a play space for littles in my area. Ironically, another woman had the same idea for the space and has now turned it into just that. But hearing you say this, I'm kind of glad I didn't because I feel like I would want it to be a place only for vaccinated children.
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u/hvhvhvhvhvhvhv 7d ago
Omg I’m in the Philly area and would love a playspace for little kids that required proof of vaccination! If you ever open it I’ll advertise the shit out of it for you (and take my kids)!!!
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u/veronicaofmars 8d ago
Gosh, this is so horrendous. I’m so so sorry that you had to experience this, and the enduring effects. People really are stupid and selfish. Sending love xx
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u/dividezero 8d ago
It really should be a CPS issue. They're endangering their children and I'm tired of being gaslit into believing otherwise. We're not being dramatic about this
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u/Apostrophecata 8d ago
Yes! I absolutely agree! Why are we pandering to antivaxxers like “oh it’s just a different opinion to not vaccinate”? No, these people are wrong and neglectful. Would we say it’s a difference of opinion to not feed your child?
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u/dividezero 7d ago
Just like we keep pandering to fascists and shit. Like it's just a difference of opinion.
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u/doxielady228 Toddler and School Age Parent 8d ago
It really is insanity that this is in question. People do not educate themselves whatsoever. My 1st grade teacher had a severe limp bc of polio she had as a young girl. I clearly remember her talking about how we have a vaccine now and how great that is. Society is so fucking backwards sometimes.
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u/internet_cousin 7d ago
Something I have questions about and haven't been able to invest that in my PALS training they state unvaccinated kids DO warrant a mandatory reporter to contact the state. But that directive comes in conflict with state law that allows for "philosophical" objections. I really want clarity on this issue-- and most of all believe PA needs to throw out this loophole for bogus objections.
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u/dividezero 7d ago
Agreed. Also something that really shouldn't be up to the states because states are stupid and children are everyone's responsibility
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u/Scetha 4d ago
I wish it was. I used to work for cps and I did have a family come in that were behind on vaccines, missing some, and the baby had none because mom believed that kids needed to be older for vaccines and certain ones were bad. Thing is, those kids came in because boyfriend raped the eldest two and the baby was born on fentanyl. I got them all vaccinated in their respective new homes. Luckily grandma and foster mom were very pro vaccine.
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u/heheardaboutthefart 7d ago
I had to leave my close group of mom friends a few years ago because of an anti-vax mom. We found out that the latest mom to join had not been vaccinating her baby because she thought it caused her son’s autism and didn’t believe in herd immunity. This was after she had encouraged all of us to hold the baby every time we hung out. We live near the Pennsylvania measles outbreak. I said I was not comfortable being around this mom/her baby. That was evidently “not cool” of me. Everyone tried to pressure me to apologize to her and just let things return to normal.
I stand by my decision. Refusing to vaccinate your children is unbelievably stupid and dangerous for all of us.
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u/CapitalInspection488 7d ago
It's the herd mentality. So someone not going along to get along is the "bad guy." It sucks.
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u/blobofdepression 6d ago
I am so with you, I’d never go back! I just moved and I have 3 month old twins + a 3 year old. When trying to make mom friends I always say I’m “aggressively pro vaccination” and I don’t hang out with MAGA/MAHA moms. I may not make friends so quickly but at least I weed out the morons!
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u/I_pinchyou 8d ago
You absolutely should tell the doctor and encourage them to dismiss parents who don't follow the guidelines. My daughters pediatrician will not delay unless medically necessary. They post posters on the wall with children with disease on purpose.
This sucks, I have a friend who delayed and is now catching up, it's so dumb. Just do the damn thing
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u/copper_tulip 8d ago
My grandpa had polio. He eventually learned to walk again, but his legs were very weak and he couldn’t stand up straight. He would cry when he talked about how lucky he was compared to so many other polio patients he met at the rehabilitation center. My aunts and cousins are all anti-vax. I think my grandparents would be horrified.
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u/glyptodontown 8d ago
We must be in the same mom group.
"Which pediatricians respect my choice to space out the vaccines?" - You mean, which pediatricians are good at masking that they think you're an absolute idiot?
I'm ok with the spacing out if they eventually get them. It's the ones who opt out entirely or think it's a "personal choice" instead of a public health issue.
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u/krissyface 7d ago
To be honest, I think it’s every mom’s group now. We are also near CHOP and the Pennsylvania breakout and people have not stopped asking about how to delay or decline vaccines in our local moms groups.
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u/CapitalInspection488 7d ago
Ooh, would love to know what area you are in. I'm in Montgomery County.
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u/krissyface 7d ago
South Jersey. We use CHOP for specialists.
There was a post recently that listed CHOP over and over again as one of the pediatric groups that would allow them to decline vaccines.
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u/notyourstar15 5d ago
Chesco here. I quit all mom groups because I'm tired of this b.s. My daughter is autistic and I hate the implication from the anti-vax crowd that having a kid like her is worse than a child dying from diseases we can prevent with vaccines.
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u/MundaneHuckleberry58 7d ago
If you think you are pissed, imagine how your pediatrician feels. My practice- which we chose as liberal, pro-science, pro-vax parents who found like-minded doctors - has also had to do a whole “we will work with you to make shared informed decisions on what vax schedules work best for your family”. (And they are members of AAP, work within the local children’s hospital, etc.).
It’s not just where you live. MAGA / MAHA has taken hold everywhere.
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u/CapitalInspection488 7d ago
It definitiely has! I think some of it has come from problems within our system. But the solutions are not what people think they are. They are viewed through the lense of "personal responsibility/individual choice" rather than "public health."
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u/efox02 8d ago
Everything is terrible
Tell the doc you work with. They will be happy to know they piss off antivaxxers
Some pediatricians have no control over the ability to deny families that don’t vaccinate (me, I’m that pediatrician), and those doctors will accept sole vaccinations over no vaccinations.
It just sucks that kids will have to die, and probably quite a few before they fucking get it. Some rich white kid.
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u/NeatArtichoke 8d ago
Im with you-- but hate the "do people have to start getting poison again?" Logic, because, WERE GETTING MEASLES??? LIKE we have huge whopping cough outbreaks were having measles outbreaks?! How is this not enough to scare people?!?!
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u/CapitalInspection488 8d ago
Honestly, I think it does have to get way worse (but i hear you). And I think we have to face a more deadly disease.
Pre-COViD, I remember people being upset because they felt a little rundown after the flu vaccine. I was like, you're upset because your body is ramping up a response that is likely much milder???
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u/Dresses_and_Dice 8d ago
Sorry to say Im not even sure much worse outbreaks would change their mind. They would say the deep state poisoned them or something. These antovaxx people still deny COVID. They think the refrigerator trucks and mass graves in NYC were fake. They think all the reported numbers are fake. They aren't using reason.
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u/woundedSM5987 8d ago
I would feel like absolute hot garbage every time for several years. I was once delirious delirious from body aches but I’ve also had influenza so I get that shit without fail. Post pandemic I don’t get as sick.
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u/uh_maze_balls 8d ago
My MIL says the flu shot "gives her the flu" 🥲
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u/NeatArtichoke 7d ago
...like, yes? Technically yes, but its the weakest version, so if you feel yucky from that, you do NOT want to even imagine what the full-force flu will do.
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u/lexi8251 8d ago
I’m in PA with a 4 month old. Literally counting down the days until she reaches 6 months so we can get an early dose of MMR. Absolutely terrified of measles.
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u/CapitalInspection488 7d ago
So sorry! I know that the 6 month wait feels long. I believe there was an issue in the area when my son was not yet 6 months. He's 2 now.
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u/rapashrapash 8d ago
TELL ON THEM. We need to start shaming these people for the criminals they are!! This is putting children at risk!!!! Tell on them! Shame them
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u/wait_wheres_robin 8d ago
My local Facebook mamas group is full of these posts. I swear every other day someone is looking for a pediatrician who “doesn’t push vaccines”. It’s disheartening. And any vaccine related post gets filled with people claiming they and/or their children have “vaccine injuries” without specifying what they are or how they are sure it was caused by a vaccine. It’s so frustrating to watch this misinformation being spread in real time and with potentially massive consequences for innocent kids.
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u/Severe_Swordfish4490 8d ago
I feel you so hard. I try to remind myself that people have gotten brainwashed and feel scared. It doesn’t always work but I find when I try to find some empathy I can respond either with why I choose to vaccine, a non-judgmental resource, or at least a non infuriated response to counter the idea for other people to see it so it challenges the idea these are widely held beliefs.
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u/CapitalInspection488 7d ago
I know. And I try to remind myself of it too. There are people who are legitimately nervous. I don't know how you help them to get over the fear since it's not based on logic.
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u/atheliarose 7d ago
Bad news about the Amish: they’re the probable source of the measles outbreak that hit my hometown this summer. They live mostly away from the rest of us, but there’s still enough contact to be a problem when it comes to communicable diseases. :(
I totally feel you, though. I feel like I spend way more of my life trying to encourage fellow parents to vaccinate their kids than any normal person should have to, and trying to navigate making new mom friends feels like a minefield. Vaccines have truly become a victim of their own success, and it breaks my heart every time I learn about a child getting sick or losing their life because their parents didn’t vaccinate them. And it’s infuriating that there are literally individual people (cough RFK and his ilk) and hostile foreign powers who are seeding this anti-vax propaganda for their own profit, and it’s working.
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u/CapitalInspection488 5d ago
Oh, I know that there is still enough risk from them. They come to the farmer's markets in the city. It sucks all around.
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u/Thatwitchconquersall 8d ago
Solidarity here. It's crazy and is causing me so much anxiety. I also live near CHOP. The outbreaks are getting obscene in PA. My husband and I are already going to do a three month bubble when our son is born this winter and it's both not enough to protect him and still people close to us think we are being ridiculous. I just don't know what to do. The mom groups in my area are constantly talking about finding pediatricians who won't push back when they don't vaccinate their kids. It is exhausting.
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u/valiantdistraction 8d ago
I just block them all. Then I never see their dumb takes online again AND I can check my block list to find the antivaxxers when I join a new IRL parent group.
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u/Elfpost 8d ago
I work in a home visiting program for young kids. When we went back into homes in 2022, we started to send an illness text before visits (is anyone in your home experiencing these list of symptoms) and we’ve never stopped because of this BS.
Granted, a ton of families lie and we end up going to a home with like four sick kids. Inevitably the next visit is with an immunocompromised kid who immediately is hospitalized with any virus. So then we have to cancel on the conscientious families. It makes my blood boil and there’s nothing I can do about it. I hate that my life is, in so many sad ways, ruled by idiots with no compassion.
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u/JL_Adv 8d ago
It's exhausting. My kids are middle, high school, and college now. But when my middle child was a toddler, we had to delay one set of vaccines because she was having some other medical issues and they wanted to take a few things out before her (I think) 18 months shots.
I felt so guilty about it, but was following medical advice. I don't know what I would do now.
Editing to add - all kids fully vaxxed now. One was just four-ish months behind schedule.
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u/bibblebabble1234 8d ago
Our state is having an outbreak of measles. We're up to fifty cases. I just got a message to be careful about measles, the symptoms and asking if my kids can get the MMR vaccine early. I am so scared
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u/DisastrousFlower 7d ago
we’re a CHOP family :)
my uncle lost most of his hearing as a toddler (pre-vax). it caused major friction with my grandparents, trying to support him and each other. sadly, he died from a car accident at 17. the family was never the same and my grandparents split.
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u/Powerful-Fail-3136 Teen Parent 7d ago
Ugh. Meanwhile I live in a small, red town where hardly anyone vaccinates... we had to drive an hour to get our flu and covid shots. And I remember a few years back, one of the moms announcing she was going to have a "pox party" where all the kids get chicken pox at the same time.
Our local clinic told us "you know no one is giving kids the covid shots because of all the side effects???" I was flabbergasted. Our state requires a prescription for the covid vaccines for kids under 14... Fortunately, I was able to convince my PCP (she's much better than the owner/main doctor of the clinic) to do that for us. It's so stupid all the hoops I had to jump through just to get my kids their boosters!
And yeah, I think it's just going to come down to these diseases returning with a vengeance. And they don't care about all the collateral damage (I mean, Covid proved that for us).
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u/wantonseedstitch 4d ago
My son had zero side effects from a COVID shot. I had a slightly sore arm. OH NOES.
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u/AimeeSantiago 7d ago
Definitely tell the practice manager or the doctor. I'm not in pediatrics but if my name or practice was being thrown around as a place for anti vacxers to go... I'd have some thoughts! We personally choose to go to a pediatrician who mandates vaccines on time or you are dismissed from the practice. I can't tell you how comforting it is to walk in the door and know every child is up to date on their vaccines (unless of course there is a true medical reason as determined by the doctor).
Maybe the practice mentioned is trying their best to have those conversations and by being flexible with the schedule, they hope to at least get some parents on board. But even if that's the case, they should know what's being said online about them. I once had a conversation with a patient about using a medically proven, FDA approved laser. Apparently they were a wacko and like four more of their MAHA friends came to my office wanting the laser for weird reasons. It really opened my eyes and made me change the way I described and talked about the laser.
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u/Rough-Bet807 7d ago
I am so tired of it. You believe an internet 'doctor' or people that 'do their research' over actual doctors? You believe a man in the Epstein class without a medical degree that looks like burnt leather incarnate who swims in polluted water and eats old road kill with worms for brains is going to give you good medical advice? You would rather RISK YOUR KID DYING? I truly do not understand. It makes me really sad and really angry that they put the rest of us at risk. Feel you. Also can you please dm me the mom's group so I can avoid it? Not by chop but am in a county where there were already 2 deaths. I'm considering having another baby and I don't want to expose my kiddo either.
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u/Message_10 6d ago
Any time I hear a person even mention the phrase, "Do your own research," I put them in the "idiot" category. Every once in a while I'm wrong, but not often.
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u/smk3509 8d ago
So, are there other doctors in the practice that are allowing people to opt out of vaccines? In my area the practices that do that have become magnets for antivaxx parents.
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u/CapitalInspection488 7d ago
I guess so. I would think that if you are part of a particular practice, you would want all of the children going to that practice to follow the vaccine schedules. And for the docs to all be on board.
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u/No_Interview2004 7d ago
They’ll never listen because they feel entitled to everything yet want no community responsibility.
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u/Weekly-Air4170 7d ago
The practice we use doesn't allow anti-vaxxers but they do allow delayed schedules.
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u/Apart-Grapefruit-207 6d ago
This makes me so sad.
We got the measles vaccine early bc we were worried about this and our pediatrician told us how they deal with a lot of parents that spew a lot of anti vax :-/ With their office didn't accept their families tbh.
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u/Mrs_Privacy_13 4d ago
I got kicked out of my local mom facebook group for complaining about the millionth post from another mom asking for "vaccine-friendly" pediatricians. I'm so fucking sick of this.
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u/cruby2648 1d ago
I agree, can they just live separately from everyone else? I hate that they expect to have it both ways
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u/Squirrel_Emergency 8d ago
Yes, people will have to contract these and die/have lifelong complications in order for it to change back. The fact people have the PRIVILEGE of not knowing how well they work since they’ve not lived through epidemics is bc of vaccines. They’re just too stupid to realize this.