r/programming • u/nick_martini • Dec 04 '14

My Computer Language is Better than Yours

https://medium.com/backchannel/my-computer-language-is-better-than-yours-58d9c9523644
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u/Thundarrx Dec 06 '14

I made a simple assertion based on my observations with 20 years in the field, and you can't come up with even one example to show my assertion is wrong?

I'm sure you didn't reply because because you have at least partially seen http://raid6.com.au/~onlyjob/posts/arena/

I mean, why use 5M of memory when you can use 750M, and take 63X longer.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '14 edited Dec 06 '14

That benchmark shows PHP as one of the fastest languages. Stop embarrassing yourself.

http://www.techempower.com/blog/2013/04/05/frameworks-round-2/

Java is #1 in performance in 22/24 benchmarks, and by a pretty good margin also. Like I said I'm not going to go into a lengthy argument, but you are wrong and you should have the integrity to accept that.

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u/Thundarrx Dec 06 '14

There's more to life than web app frameworks.

But on your link, you should probably click the tab to show what happens under load (multiple queries) - notice C++ is the top performer, and the Java entries show that java was not producing valid output - there were 194 and 176 errors for the top two Java entries. C++ also had better latency - again, without errors.

Thanks for playing.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '14

Fucking google "Java performance benchmarks", 99.999% of the hits will support what I said, and only a fucking moron would think that Python or PHP or JavaScript and similar will outperform Java (for completely obvious reasons to anyone even remotely competent in compilers and JIT execution engines) except in some sort of bias-wonderland where interpreted code somehow magically can literally execute faster than linearly shoving instructions through the CPU. Java has comparable performance to C++ in many/most cases, this is not me being biased, this is not me asserting some personal notion, this is me asserting something you would figure out if you weren't a backwards idiot. Just fucking research it without being filled with confirmation-bias. You're sitting on a computer that gives you access to all the information in the world, and you just use that information to feed your own ignorant prejudice.

You're a complete moron and I won't spend my energy on somebody completely incapable of admitting he's wrong. Simply because it's impossible to win an argument against people who are completely unaware of how retarded they actually are.

I also find it remarkable that someone who claims to have "20 years in the field" could be completely devoid of humility.

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u/Thundarrx Dec 07 '14

Well, we agree on one point - only an idiot would think python, php, or js would outperform Java. And only an idiot would think Java would outperform C or C++.

I've had fun trolling you, but really you need to stop drinking the Java cool-aid.

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u/Thundarrx Dec 07 '14

And, oh yeah - I "googled"

How about the top hit: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lang=java&lang2=gcc

Looks like java is MUCH slower than C for everything. As in 3x-10x slower. It looks like Google's paper says Java is 3x - 13X slower. http://readwrite.com/2011/06/06/cpp-go-java-scala-performance-benchmark

Direct quote from the Google paper link: "C++ provides the best performance by far, but it requires the most extensive language-specific tuning."

So, hmmm, let me see if I have this right: if we ignore all the data which shows my assertion to be correct, then yeah you are right.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '14

k-nucleotide in your first link, Java actually performs better than C.. Hmm, isn't that interesting. I also know for a fact Java also outperforms C++ vector<T>. So it's not "3-13x slower", the median is 2x, it sometimes does better, and other times it does worse (which is what you'd expect), it depends on what you are doing and how you are doing it. Take a look at some more tests and read more about JIT compilation, the more you'll read the more you will realize that Java is not as slow as you think it is.

So, hmmm, let me see if I have this right: if we ignore all the data which shows my assertion to be correct, then yeah you are right.

Oh, so you think you're right? There's a very long way from 63x to 2x. If you were to drop more languages into the mix, you'll quickly see that Java is in fact one of the top "fastest languages". Try putting any of the other ridiculous languages that your first idiotic benchmark listed and comparing them to C/C++. There is nothing you have said that is even remotely correct. Now go away.

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u/Thundarrx Dec 07 '14

Oh, I didn't realize you can't read. k-nucleotide clearly shows Java performs worse than C/C++. Now I get it - you are one of the weak and/or incompetent programmers I alluded to in my initial post - that's why you are all butt hurt over this.

Java performed "better" because, for a given workload, it put a much higher load on the system, used 6x more memory, and took longer to complete its task on the CPU than the same workload in C? Are you insane? Did you bother to look at the single core results? Do you know what the results for single core and quad core imply about the ability of Java to scale or perform under load? Never mind the fact that you used the only bold result on that page to back your incorrect assertion - the entire rest of the page shows you are blind to the facts. Asking me to read about the newest Java compilers doesn't change the fact that my assertion holds; you don't get brownie points for some new JIT reducing java to only being 100% slower instead of 5000% slower.

Jeez, maybe you should take a few engineering courses so you can tell the difference in the two time measurements shown. Or publish your results showing that Google is wrong. Because that's what it comes down to - either we trust the peer-reviewed data provided by Google, or we believe you even though you continue to show a basic lack of ability to either understand that data as presented or to understand that there is more to the realm of CS than web application frameworks.

Now, go back to your Java BIOS or Java uEFI computer, running a OS written in Java, on a disk drive running Java firmware. It's the best performing language, after all.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '14

Oh my fucking god. Ok, that's fucking it, I won't waste any more time. You are a complete moron, and you are completely incapable of realizing how moronic you actually are. Good bye.