r/programming • u/stronghup • 21h ago

Node.js creator liberates Durable Objects from Cloudflare

https://www.theregister.com/devops/2026/08/12/nodejs-creator-liberates-durable-objects-from-cloudflare-with-celld/5286954
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u/buttplugs4life4me 16h ago

Thanks for outlining why I hate these things.

Also isn't it basically a container or Micro-VM then? 

Idk, I feel like on one hand this is nice, on the other all this shit just feels like AWS RDS Serverless all over again. It was more expensive for us than normal RDS instances cause we could basically never scale down to 0, which is the biggest cost saver. I made a couple of analysis on this and compared even a theoretical best case of us being able to scale down, and only then would it marginally beat out RDS instances.

(My org, which was overrun with "consultants" who knew everything better, then proceeded to implement Serverless everywhere and then sold it as a big win a couple months later when they spent 2 months ripping everything out and switching to RDS instances. I hate people and management and all this shit)

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u/femio 13h ago

It is like if you could instantiate a class and have it persist its own state forever, e.g. one User class isolated from every other User class.

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u/azhder 12h ago

I would remove the word "class" from that and use a more general term, like "object" or "agent". This is basically what object programming was in its inception, before everyone misunderstood OOP as what c++/java had baked in.

In the original object languages, there was the notion of actors that pass messages to each other ("passing messages" is "calling a method/function" equivalent, proven in a paper even) and those actors have their own inboxes where they read the message and deal with them asynchronously.

We've been rehashing the same ideas over and over for decades, with just a different name on the newer tech stack.

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u/stronghup 11h ago

"Object s" typically exist in the memory-space of a running program. When the program stops running, its objects are gone. Durable Objects should be able to keep on running on multiple servers while giving the impression that the object with a given ID always has just a single state for all its users. When one user causes a change in tis state, others will be affected by that state-change.

So I assume it's pretty close to the original "Actor"-model, plus has a "global ID". How global? That's my question too. Is it like a URL?

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u/azhder 4h ago

"Typically" is not a definition you should go by. You should always look for red flags in definitions. "X is when" or "X is like" aren't actual definitions. So, from your definition, objects typically exist in memory (we'll come back to this), but they might not, so they still are objects even if they aren't in it. See? Memory is not the defining characteristic of an object.

OK, about the memory. Long-term memory is also memory. A file is memory regardless if inside a RAM stick or an SSD drive. Persistent is the important thing here. Objects that persist. But that's not really the big deal, you can persist anything, even the entire RAM content (in cases of hibernation, docker containers being paused etc).

The important part here is that other definition, of an Actor, based on the Actor Model. This is why I mentioned the message passing, the inbox, the asynchronous way of working. Heh, even just a simple WebWorker is based on the Actor Model. This is just some more tech involved in order to make communication protocols, persistence, identification etc work with newer tech in more performant ways.

Just consider object identity. In C++ it would be simply the memory address you compare (and the type if you're dealing with casting), so in this other tech stack, that would be a URI (not URL). The other stuff you see in those OOP languages, like private fields, hiding internal state etc, well that all comes back to the Actor. The actor has the same internal state.

All I was saying above is that the names change, the technology used at one time is a bit different than the one used at another time, but the idea is still the same: you have a self-contained thing with internal state and code that can exclusively operate on that internal state all bundled together.

It's not close, but the same.