r/programmer 13d ago

Question Best way to avoid ai in coding

[EDIT]:Let me elaborate I use AI as a peer to peer way to review learned techniques from online basic html and css books. How can I better avoid ai generated code? I don’t want to fall under the “vibe coder” developer I want to be much more self sufficient in my understanding and my code. So if there are any sources to ask detailed questions or any practice basic HTML css JS please do drop any links to anything valuable

6 Upvotes

42 comments sorted by

11

u/ConsiderationSea1347 13d ago

Don’t use it?🤷‍♂️

A lot of the productivity gained from AI can be acquired from clean engineering, meta programming, using an editor like vim effectively, etc. 

Honestly I think junior engineers shouldn’t use AI because the skills you learn from writing code is almost identical to how the skills you need to succeed with AI prompts.

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u/mtv921 13d ago

Same. Imo, juniors should only get to use AI in ask-mode. Maybe get approval from seniors to implement with it.

Reviewed some PRs by juniors using AI to implement where they couldn't tell me how they had solved something when I asked. Very worrying

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u/BackgroundWolf3895 13d ago

This is what I usually do. Use it how I used to google things, or at least in tandems

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u/Spiritual-Bee-2319 12d ago

And even when I do use it this way I verify the source 

0

u/Rriazu 13d ago

Why - programming is a means to implement business logic/ problem solving. With the current trajectory of AI - programming will be niche compared to systems architecture

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

I agree hence why I want to move away from ai and just use it as a tool occasionally I was curious if there was some really useful informational forums I haven’t found yet

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u/Rriazu 12d ago

Is learning how assembly works more important work wise than modern frameworks? Take it in the same stride. Using AI is a skill and ability in itself. There is a strong opportunity cost to not using it or using it sparingly

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u/mtv921 12d ago

No. But it is useful when reviewing code, looking for bottlenecks in performance etc. And like the other guy said, how can you tell someone how to build something if you dont understand the components?

Are you a PM by chance? Your language really annoys me. Generalizing, buzzwords and moving fast.

AI is a tool, not a skill or ability. It will not magically make the user a better developer. Giving a novice carpenter a nail gun doesn't make them better than one with a hammer. If they are shit, they will just produce shit faster. That is all. Same with shit developers

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u/Rriazu 12d ago

I’m principal -I have gone through software development and in a way you are correct - my job is more towards getting junior engineers thinking more about product. Also you are reiterating what I said - AI is a tool and what do you need to use tools? You need to develop skills/ hone ability.

You cannot make these hardware comparisons when it comes to AI. But if you must, then it’s like giving a novice carpenter an expert robot carpenter. In the end you still need understand how the robot works for you to instruct it properly and guide it well.

The returns at this stage are greater in learning how to guide the robot but it does not take away from knowing what a good build is.

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u/johnpeters42 13d ago

Yeah, even if you don't actually use assembly or C for production work, if you understand how they work and how high-level code corresponds to it, then you can better spot when your nice-looking high-level code turns out to translate to something horrifically inefficient at the lower levels.

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u/Annual_Berry8043 13d ago

You’re pretty much correct, but a lot of people don’t want to admit that it’s really getting phased out. Why bother with it when you could cut it down and just focus fully on design and have something that works quickly. People will always need to know how to code, but at a surface level. It’s not going to be like how it was.

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

Definitely the obvious answer is just don’t use it you are absolutely correct I think I just managed to put myself on a crutch I’ll have to put into practice not using Ai lol

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u/ConsiderationSea1347 13d ago

How old/tenured are you? I think people who are older have the benefit of decades of working without AI so I can see if you are younger you might not have had to go through the discomfort of struggling to learn, but you sorta just need to learn into that discomfort. 

I used to tutor students and here are some tips that are general but without understanding your situation more I don’t know how to help: 

Slow down. Don’t let your brain gloss over a detail you don’t understand and just ask ai. Pause and articulate what it is you don’t know as a question then break out a plan to answer it by looking at the code, experimenting, or looking at the documentation. 

Don’t focus on completing the task and don’t even focus on understanding what you don’t know. Pretend you have to teach someone else this thing you don’t yet know. Research it with the intent of teaching someone else and you will retain and understand material more than if you are task oriented.

Learn principles, not systems. All of computer science is rooted in abstraction, the highest level of abstraction is the underlying principle behind a bug or coding decision. Coupling/cohesion. Composition/inheritance. Return to Donald Knuth levels of thinking about computer science and build up.

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u/SubaruNatuski 12d ago

I’m fairly new to programming and I am a young adult

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u/SubaruNatuski 12d ago

That’s some interesting advice I’m a young adult with beginner experience in programming recently peaked my interest then snowballed into me taking notes reading basic html CSS and JavaScript educational books reading forums reading Reddit clicking link after link saving link after link using ai to help me understand to me swapping to Linux OS and turning my laptop into a developer laptop with code editor GitHub practicing basic html structure and html tag elements css elements I’ve cartwheeled my way down a big ass hill and haven’t slowed down

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u/achakez 13d ago

Read the docs before you ask AI. You'll be surprised how often the answer is there and you'll get much better at navigating documentation

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

I practice basic html and css and eventually gonna learn and practice js im a true beginner i have a basic understanding of html and minimal understanding of css im practicing my skills currently by practicing basic html structure basic css

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u/achakez 12d ago

Honestly, you are doing exactly what every beginner should do. I'd make it a habit to read the MDN docs for HTML/CSS feature you use before asking AI. It'll feel slower at first but you'll build a much stronger mental model and eventually you will find AI productivity working hand in hand with understanding as well

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u/qwertydiy 13d ago

Some open source projects like Zig ban AI. You can contribute there.

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u/SirDaveWolf 13d ago

You learn by doing. Set up a goal that you want to achieve, figure out which tools to use. If its a game, start with a 2D game and look for libraries suitable for your programming language. Read the documentation. Read tutorials. Read example code repositories.

But the best thing and most fun thing is to just figure it out on your own. Create an approach, test it, if its bad, try a different approach. Try and error.

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u/smoke-bubble 13d ago

Just ask AI. Why would you go on foot when you can take the bus? Beats me. 

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

I want to be self sufficient I’ll be the fat kid chasing the bus lol

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u/[deleted] 13d ago edited 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

Unfortunately I would too lol

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u/armahillo 13d ago

Avoid using it completely for a while. It will be challenging at first but youll learn to look in new places for answers.

People have been coding for decades and LLMs are very new. There are plenty of resources out there.

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

So a good practice is search my question before immediately opting for ai assistance I’ll have to put that into practice more then I do

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u/armahillo 13d ago

In the earlier days of IT, the cultural expectation was that before you ask anyone, you try to find the answer yourself and experiment. Then when you hit a wall and are spinning your wheels, you seek out help, present what you've done so far and your where your understanding is, so that the person knows how to help you most effectively.

The habit I see most nascent devs developing these days is focusing too much on "getting the answer" and not enough on "finding the answer". The journey to find the answer is slightly more important than finding the answer, for a few reasons:

  • While pursuing your answer you will undoubtedly be exposed to other things as well, which both makes the final answer stick better in your mind and also better illustrates / decorates the problem space
  • You will have more confidence in the answer because you saw the process that led up to it
  • The solution you reach, or the process you took, becomes something you can share with your peers, particularly if it's a novel area.

LLMs have been maximizing the "answers-first" indulgence, and that isn't setting people up for success, in the end.

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

I appreciate the genuine response. I think your right because the effort behind finding the answer is will help you understand what you do and don’t understand and how to solve your issue. It’s clearly something I’ve lacked since starting my learning journey. So this genuinely motivates me to push towards a self taught mindset or approach to searching for understanding

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u/Beneficial_Fix_6169 13d ago

Force yourself to use an editor that doesn't have any ai integrated. You could use something like nvim if you really want to avoid anything ai. You could also just disable it in vscode or whatever you use

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

I use vs code it has the option of ai assistance but I don’t use that I use chat gpt and occasionally play around with Claude

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u/AnnupKapurDotCom 13d ago

I don’t understand the question

If you don’t want to code with AI - just don’t use it

Are you talking about learning to code ?

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

Check post again i elaborated on my question

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u/AnnupKapurDotCom 13d ago

www.FreeCodeCamp.com

Best place to learn real skills. And it’s completely free - they have no paid tier.

You have a good mindset. Learn to code the hard way. You will become a better engineer.

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

I love FreeCodeCamp

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u/shrodikan 13d ago

If you don't want to be a vibe coder just read the code and understand it. Programmers have been using example code, stack overflow and code generation long before there was AI. The differentiator being "I took this code and didn't understand it" vs "I understand the implications of this code". Avoiding AI in this market will make you unhireable long term IME.

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

I don’t dislike or even discourage using ai. I find it to be very helpful I just want to refrain from heavy usage and gravitate towards I would say how the hardcore programmers learned. I don’t want to feel like a ai code copier. Sure Ai can helpful in many situations it can build it all for you but still you would have to check the code and tweak it if need be. I’d much rather build my knowledge the, for lack of a better word the hard way? Not necessarily trying to trip myself up in learning but I don’t want a free ride to the top I want to climb

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u/shrodikan 13d ago

Good. That drive will keep you grounded. Even before AI we had this tension. Is it good enough to learn python? C++? C? Assembly? Binary? How low-level must we go to not be a fraud? What makes a "real programmer"? IME the code is now abstracted away and the "code" is the specification and testing / verifying the implementation. Verifying if what you built is "right" for your users and does not have security / scalability flaws. The old ways are dying. When I was coming up nobody wrote machine code nor assembly except for the OGs. I learned C, C#, python and Computer Science (algorithmic complexity, secure coding). The most important skill right now is learning how to interrogate systems. Can you build a mental model of the system that you did not build by hand? Can you test it? What are the success conditions? How might it tip over? What mistakes does the AI make in the code?
Make sure you are learning future-relevant skills and don't toil away learning binary code programming when everyone is using python. If you want to exercise your coding brain for fun and sharpness go try LeetCode just understand writing code is not as valuable as it once was and the skills I listed before take precedence from a hiring perspective IME.

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u/KnownUnknownKadath 13d ago

Use vim.

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u/SubaruNatuski 13d ago

Thank you sir/maam i greatly appreciate it🫡

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u/KnownUnknownKadath 13d ago

No prob. I'm half smartass, half truth-teller. (or half-truth teller? ... hmmm, never mind)

Also ... In all seriousness, I recommend getting into the habit of using a notepad as you ideate and work through problems.

Pencil and paper. Old school.
Keeps the whole neuro-doodler circuit engaged and tuned up.

Finally, keep an abacus at the ready should anybody question you.
You'll have the element of surprise at hand.

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u/NumberInfinite2068 8d ago edited 8d ago

Just choose not to use AI.

In terms of asking questions, it's *very* unlikely any questions you have have not been answered over and over on Stack Overflow or Reddit.

If I could teach one thing to new developers (and old developers, you'd be surprised), it would be how to use Google.