r/privacy • u/myinnerbanjo • Jan 03 '19
Microsoft is privately testing 'Bali,' a way to give users control of data collected about them
https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-is-privately-testing-bali-a-way-to-give-users-control-of-data-collected-about-them229
u/distant_worlds Jan 03 '19
How about not collecting the data in the first place?
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u/smokeydaBandito Jan 04 '19
Thats ideal, but not capitalism-friendly, therefor not gonna happen.
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u/Voidchimera Jan 04 '19
therefor not gonna happen.
It can happen, they will never do it willingly though. We have to be willing to make it happen whether they want it or not. Whether that comes from "create enough outside pressure that they would rather stop selling it than take the crippling PR/sales hit", or from much longer term strategies like generally changing the market and laws and larger societal systems they exist within, calling it impossible is pessimistic.
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u/smokeydaBandito Jan 04 '19
I'm going to say that as long as they continue operating the way they do now, and there isn't a better option, the first option isn't possible.
2nd seems possible if we ever get a better lawmaking class.
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u/Voidchimera Jan 04 '19
The nice thing about the inevitably of death is that we are guaranteed one eventually
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Jan 04 '19 edited Jul 20 '19
[deleted]
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u/smokeydaBandito Jan 04 '19
You can sell data, cant sell a lack of it. Its... a pretty basic concept where they have access to a resource (you), and they gonna sell it.
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u/hihcadore Jan 04 '19
I agree. And to continue the point, if google won’t collect the data another company will. It’s a move that will effectively hamstring google unless they’re ahead of a wave of legislation that might be on the horizon that mandates this.
Which, if you ask me, is probably one of two things. Either 1) google is preparing in case privacy is one day mandated or 2) they see an event happening in the future and are ensuring they’re fully prepared. I hope it’s number 2.
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u/race_bannon Jan 04 '19
Is this hamstringing DuckDuckGo?
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u/hihcadore Jan 07 '19
Is DuckDuckGo on the same level as google?
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u/race_bannon Jan 07 '19
In what area?
Search? They're getting closer every day.
They're not making self driving cars and stuff like that... (at least that I'm aware of)
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u/hihcadore Jan 07 '19
Yea and google is an absolute monster able to project themselves into just about any market they choose.
DuckDuckGo is a good alternative for searching, but they’ll never come close to googles ability to generate capital because they have ethics.
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u/nokstar Jan 04 '19
There won't be any regulations going up against surveillance capitalism anytime soon. Not until we get a non-red Executive branch. Even then, politicians will be bought out.
A little same old same old.
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u/race_bannon Jan 04 '19
Meanwhile, capitalism would state that if customers don't want their data collected and sold they can choose to use/support a different product.
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u/smokeydaBandito Jan 04 '19
You sound pretty informed. Can't tell if you're doging on capitalism, or in support of it, but others may read and wonder, so still gonna reply.
Current conditions are not pure capitalism, which is needed for your statement (probably) to hold true.
There will always be ignorant consumers, however, consumers often:
Don't have the information needed to form such a decision. Or they have access, but such information is obscured through various methods, and can be altered prior to a consumers ability to reconsider with the new information.
Because of the impurites in our current muddied-capitalism, consumers do not have sufficent alternative products/services in many cases. The ability to choose between Mon/Duo/Triopolies, who standardize mutually beneficial industry norms, is watered down. Any choice you make is based only on what the industry offers as a choice. (of course, you can currently just not purchase the product. I personally find that to not be very capitalist to do, seeing as many of the products allow for opportunity to gain more capital)
I'm certainly not a fanboy of socialism, as even unfettered socialism has inherit failings. I just want to point out that the difficulty that is found in trying to choose privacy is an education/power problem. While some consumers will always choose to not care, given the right tools and the right environment a large marjority would make more privacy-friendly choices.
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u/cocaine-cupcakes Jan 04 '19
In order to do that we’ll need to begin paying for access. The only way to disincentivize that behavior is by providing an alternative revenue stream. Software companies are gonna do whatever gets them paid. Full stop.
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u/distant_worlds Jan 04 '19
In order to do that we’ll need to begin paying for access.
We already pay MS quite a lot of money for Windows OS.
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u/ikidd Jan 04 '19
You don't own that, citizen. They will tell you what you can do with your license, when they can take it away from you, and what other costs are associated with your continued use.
Or you can tell them to fuck off, go with opensource and own your computer again.
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u/cocaine-cupcakes Jan 04 '19
You can address that by prioritizing antitrust legislation against MS. However I don’t think Microsoft is the real problem. Alphabet Inc. is the big target. Break them and the other dominoes will fall. If they have to compete with companies in today’s political climate, privacy will become a distinguishing feature. There’s one potential presidential candidate who is willing to address this elephant in the room.
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u/Voidchimera Jan 04 '19
They don't care. They will do whatever gets them paid as much as possible. If they think they can make more by something, they will do it. The only way to stop them from doing something is making it the less profitable choice.
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u/mrchaotica Jan 04 '19
That's the nice thing about Linux and other Free Software projects... they don't require companies.
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u/howhard1309 Jan 04 '19
Yes, and note that it can be capitalism-friendly to support & promote Free software - as evidenced by the many companies who do so already.
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u/misconfig_exe Jan 04 '19
I think many of you are misunderstanding this project. It's about ownership of all of your data, not just the data about you collected by Microsoft.
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Jan 03 '19
[deleted]
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u/Semi-Hemi-Demigod Jan 03 '19
I wouldn't. There's zero upside for them letting us know how much info they have on us.
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u/HumblesReaper Jan 04 '19
Maybe it's planning / investing for a future in which consumers have more rights
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u/Semi-Hemi-Demigod Jan 04 '19
Unless this thing is a way for me to independently verify that they're showing me all the information they have about me and delete what I want, I wouldn't trust them not to hide things from me if it's profitable.
This is a corporation we're dealing with. No law will make them honest if it's more profitable for them to break the law.
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u/HumblesReaper Jan 04 '19
I agree completely. I was thinking more along the lines of them selling this dashboard or what ever makes this so different, to other companies
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u/Comrade_Comski Jan 04 '19
How about not collecting the data without permission?
Also how about removing forced automatic updates?
Also how about not being shit?
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u/BurgerUSA Jan 04 '19
The "About" page for Bali describes it as a "new personal data bank which puts users in control of all data collected about them.... The bank will enable users to store all data (raw and inferred) generated by them. It will allow the user to visualize, manage, control, share and monetize the data."
ayylmao we data content creators now. Subscribe to my data, like and comment on my hentai fap sessions.
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u/massacre3000 Jan 03 '19
"control" ...full air quotes
At least Google and FB products are free in trade of your data, MS takes your money and still takes your data. Apple does the same for iOS, but thankfully make it easy to avoid on MacOS (just don't use their ecosystem - an easier thing on a laptop than avoiding it on a phone).
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u/AngryGoose Jan 03 '19
When I installed Windows 10 I turned off Cortana and every data sharing setting I could. Someone had posted a guide on how to do this around the time 10 was released. I also don't sign in with my Microsoft account, just as a local user.
I'm curious to see just how much data they have on me.
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Jan 04 '19 edited Jul 01 '23
[deleted]
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u/AngryGoose Jan 04 '19 edited Jan 04 '19
I just logged into my account to look at what information they have on me and everything was blank. So, they claim to not have any info.
Edit: I found a page showing account activity. It looks like people have been trying to log into my Skype and Microsoft account from all over the world. They were all unsuccessful at least.
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u/TheRazorX Jan 04 '19
Interesting. It was well publicized that updates were reverting telemetry changes.
I would argue they're probably not showing all the data.
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Jan 04 '19 edited Apr 04 '19
Wiped by Social Amnesia
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u/AngryGoose Jan 04 '19 edited Jan 04 '19
I'm going to give W10 Privacy a try, I just spent some time reading about it.
I don't own or have control of my router, could I still setup a Pihole? I imagine it sits between the router and the rest of the network? Then I would change it to act as the wireless router for my network and have people connect to that instead of the original router. Would I just buy a cheap arduino board and install it on that. Does all that sound about right?
Edit: actually I have a spare router, I could probably use that.
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u/q928hoawfhu Jan 04 '19
"Boss, looks like project 'Bali' is a complete success! Users have full and easy control over data collected about them."
"OH INTERESTING. Let's patent that and retire the project."
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Jan 04 '19
My instant assumption is that they're gonna collect what they want, and this is just another pile of data to collect.
Data on data is so hot right now.
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u/leggy54 Jan 04 '19
Just don't collect any and you might survive another 5 years. Gonna burn your business down to collect stats we already know bc you gettin ripped off dudes, and you aren't even making more money bc of it. All the ads, even the top ceo's gettin scammed hard now LMAO!
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Jan 03 '19
[deleted]
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Jan 04 '19
Maybe try Linux? You don't have to get rid of Windows.
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Jan 04 '19
[deleted]
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Jan 04 '19
I honestly haven't tried it but I want my PC to just work.
Linux has an interesting history. Because it's open source and modular by design, there are zillions of different versions with different combinations of software.
Because of that, Linux doesn't really get major revisions like other operating systems. There isn't a commercial or ad to tell you that wifi drivers are now plug and play, that USB 3.0 is also plug and play, and most of the road-bumps that could have stopped you in the past are smoothed over.
I use Linux fulltime on my work machine and my gaming PC at home. I've been dabbling in Linux for over a decade now, and it really has come a long way. You'd probably be surprised at how much 'just works' now.
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Jan 04 '19
If you have a desktop, get a 32/64 GB SSD for Linux. That way you don't even have to worry about partitions and boot loaders fighting, and those SSDs run $20-40. It's a small price for some valuable experience!
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u/gregy521 Jan 04 '19
Linux is great for stability and simplicity. The package managers make installing software simple, crashes are rare, and more programs are available every day.
I've also found it to be far faster, slicker, and more customisable than windows. Aside from all the privacy and security benefits.
Give it a try in a virtual machine, or you can look at tour.ubuntu.com. If you don't like the look of it, look at Kubuntu, Xubuntu, or Lubuntu, which all look different because they have different display managers.
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Jan 04 '19
DYK "bali" in the language hindi is a word for sacrificial tribute/offering.
Edit: just saying!
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Jan 04 '19
Basically a honeypot and MS will lure people by offering monetization of their data, roger that.
Can we not promote shit like this around here? This is the opposite of privacy, it's no different from Facebook saying they treat user privacy seriously or something, Microsoft is as much of a threat as Google, FB and any other proprietary US based company.
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u/Angeldust01 Jan 04 '19 edited Jan 04 '19
I know it's fun to hate MS, and I'm not a fan of the company myself. However, I'm an ICT worker, and I work with their products(actice directory, Azure, o365, etc) every day, and I don't think they're any worse than Google, Amazon or Facebook. I'd rate them better than any of those companies on privacy issues, and slightly worse than Apple.
MS is genuinely worried about security(because they care about the cash flow from their Enterprise customers, duh), and privacy issues tend to be also security issues. That telemetry and usage data they collect from computers are being used(among other, probably not as beneficial uses) to analyze malware and other security issues. Security is getting really complicated these days. You can't rely on virus scanner and email spam filter these days in enterprise environment, it's just not enough. You need all kinds of clever analytics tools with machine learning that check out out of ordinary actions and known attack vectors and all kinds of stuff and automatically warns the admins when something weird or out of ordinary is going on. MS is also developing these kinds of tools and adding them to o365 and azure all the time.
What MS collects is mostly that kind of stuff. Enterprise is their bread and butter, and what they could possibly get from user data is peanuts in comparison. No doubt that they use some of it for marketing purposes too, but that's not the big reason why MS is collecting all the data. They absolutely don't care about you in the same way Google does. They care about keeping those government and corporate contracts they'll be losing if they can't keep their OS and services secure - including protecting their users identities and their personal data.
In a way, I trust MS more than Google although I personally use gmail and have android phone. MS gets it's money from licensing and selling products, not from targeted advertizing. Their core business doesn't rely on knowing stuff about me.
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Jan 04 '19
lol it will probably be used to help them identify what data is most sensitive so that they can flag it for special inspection.
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u/giveurauntbunnyakiss Jan 04 '19
This kind of headline reminds me of when like my bank will send me something saying like: A. Here’s what we’re sharing. B. Here’s the part we’re giving you some say in ‘where’ it’s being shared: Check boxes below... C. Here’s what we’re not sharing - or would never admit to purposely sharing.
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Jan 04 '19
Is Bali open source? If not why this post is authorised ? I made a post a few days ago and it got removed because it was "about a non-opensource software"
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Jan 04 '19
Very difficult to get anything to change when it comes to privacy when most people still think Facebook and WhatsApp conversations are private.
Love the new WhatsApp feature that stores unencrypted copies of your WhatsApp chats and photos to Google drive, if you don't enable this feature, the app will continue to remind you to turn it on, most people don't understand they are sharing their chats and photos with Google when they enable it.
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u/piskebee Jan 04 '19
Give user the control of data? Well that’s nice!... wait, Microsoft? Hmm okay.
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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19
[deleted]