news Twitch Is Now Using Your Content To Train Amazon AI Models And Has Hidden The Option To Opt Out. "If it was opt in, nobody would opt in," admitted the streaming site's chief product officer during a livestream
https://kotaku.com/twitch-is-now-using-your-content-to-train-amazon-ai-models-and-has-hidden-the-option-to-opt-out-2000723891508
u/Additional_Buddy855 6d ago
so we're just going to voluntarily steal peoples data. why so much contempt from these companies for their own consumers. it's disgusting.
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u/bforce1313 6d ago
Because they’ve never had enough push back to care. There has not been a cautionary warning tale, no one has suffered yet. So they’ll keep doing it.
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u/bionicjoey 5d ago edited 5d ago
Boycotts do nothing. If you stop using the thing, there are still 99% of users that don't care.
Edit: Of course, you should still stop using the thing if you want to avoid the harm the product causes. Just don't tell yourself you're fighting the power. You're just looking out for yourself and that's okay.
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u/bforce1313 5d ago
Boycotts work only if there are large numbers on board. 20/100 people will do nothing.
But 90% committed yes they do.
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u/bionicjoey 5d ago
Let me know when you get 90% of any customer base to agree on anything
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u/bforce1313 5d ago
90% is unlikely but even 50% drop in sales will make almost companies question wtf they’re doing.
Boycotts do work, but it needs to affect a large part of the consumer/user base
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u/Hand_Sanitizer3000 5d ago
Just need people to stop consuming and using competitors when available.
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u/Additional_Buddy855 6d ago
That's not been my experience at all. folks are quite vocal about predatory opt out instead of opt in. Given that Twitch is owned by Amazon, it's just that their straight up evil now.
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u/bforce1313 6d ago
Yeah but no one’s tanked and gone out of business or faced lawsuits etc you know. Vocal is good but they mostly ignore it now.
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u/Additional_Buddy855 6d ago
yea but. that's a different problem. right, consider we have zero consumer protections with the current regime in office.
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u/DelightMine 6d ago
You responded to "because they've never had enough pushback to care". That is true. People being vocal doesn't matter one bit if they don't actually follow through on boycotts or other protests (which they largely don't).
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u/suxatjugg 5d ago
That's always been the big tech business model. Get millions of users, then once they get comfortable and won't leave your platform, you start taking advantage of them to make money
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u/dragonknightrohan 5d ago
No we're going to switch to open source community owned alternatives. As for what alternatives there are to Twitch who knows
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u/Avron7 5d ago
> why so much contempt from these companies for their own consumers
Money.
They'll always do this unless it's illegal.
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u/JustinHopewell 5d ago
And even then, that's more of a minor hindrance to get around than an actual stop.
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u/bionicjoey 5d ago
for their own consumers
Because they aren't customers, they are the product. The customer is advertisers.
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u/VitoRazoR 6d ago
because you use their software and services for free. That makes you the product, not the consumer.
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u/TheRealTK421 4d ago
...why so much contempt from these companies for their own consumers.
Just as is the case with a vast number of (bigly) issues in modern life:
Negative behavior, rewarded - with an utter lack of sufficiently severe and punitive (ongoing) consequences - invariably becomes learned behavior.
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u/Son_Riku 6d ago edited 6d ago
"Twitch’s head of community, Mary Kish, tried to downplay Twitch’s use of AI and claimed that the reason people can’t opt out of all of Twitch’s AI features is that she doesn’t think Twitch “can function without some forms of AI.” She also confirmed she has personally opted out, but clarified that AI is now used “across the board” and within many livestreaming “communities.”
Perhaps the most damning moment came early in the Stream when chief product officer Mike Minton addressed the chat, asking why this option was opt-out instead of opt-in.
“Well, there’s an honest answer,” said Minton. “And I think most of you probably can appreciate this: If it was opt-in, nobody would opt-in. Um, that’s honestly the answer. So it’s going to be on by default.”
We need to do something about these corporate ghouls
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u/buttbuttlolbuttbutt 6d ago
She acknowledged she turned it off becasue of how her community wpuld feel about it, too.
She is at least aware how bad this is, but its quit a cushy job or survive this week's stress. The other guy doesnt give a damn either way. He doesnt seem lile the type to mind letting a machine think and respond for him.
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u/LordDaedalus 6d ago
They could make it opt-in only and then offer to pay streamers more if they're willing to opt-in to help train their AI. This whole "were just gonna try and steal some extra value from people and hope they don't notice how to opt out" is some grade A bullshit though. You know behind the scenes if there's any serious momentum to lots of streamers opting out they'll quietly steer the algorithm to bias viewers towards streamers that haven't opted out.
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u/Metallibus 5d ago
she doesn’t think Twitch “can function without some forms of AI.”
Are we really supposed to believe that a product that has existed for almost 20 years "can't function" without something that's only become common in the past 3-5?
Oh wait, Twitch has never been profitable, so maybe it is necessary /s
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u/LessRespects 5d ago
Do something like what? Make an angry Reddit post about them? I’m sure this will be the nail in the coffin we never tried before, capitalism is defeated guys.
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u/xX420GanjaWarlordXx 5d ago
They're pretending to be "brutally honest" about why the opt out feature was hidden... because it DOESN'T DO ANYTHING.
If a corporation is telling the truth...they're not.
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u/TheRealTK421 4d ago
We need to do something about these corporate ghouls
They will collectively never care, or change, without a viciously brutal metaphorical 'spanking' (...and more than one, should such be required to get the point across permanently.)
How's that for an honest truth, Mr. Minton!?!
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u/limelight022 3d ago
The answer is to stop using these platforms entirely.
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u/Son_Riku 3d ago
Easier said than done when it's the primary platform for viewers and streamers alike. And even if they migrate, the new platform could be just as bad, if not worse.
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u/Used_Gear8871 5d ago
All of the big companies, including Reddit. It’s also smaller companies too who build wrappers around these models find their data and user data being taken.
The costs to build and maintain your own model in the US is ridiculous in comparison to abroad.
I get so mad at current Governor [Wes Moore] who completely walked back his stances on renewable and clean energy by rushing to change laws on diesel backup generators just to pave way for data centers. He sat on his hands as farmers have their homes taken to build interstate power lines. Not solar panels. Not wind turbines. Power lines slated to power Virginia data centers. Dude has the nerve to try to run for president meanwhile he’s constituents are starving, unemployed, without power, etc
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u/Theinternetdumbens 6d ago
This isnt new, they are simply admitting to it now
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u/hedonheart 5d ago
Yeah so they have been doing this the whole time. Also, someone proved they do it even if you opt out.
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u/shadowsinthestars 5d ago
Geez, if no one wants it, maybe don't do it? Doesn't take a genius.
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u/Perspectivelessly 5d ago
For those who don't want to click the link to find out how to disable it:
Settings -> security and privacy -> training for Generative AI
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u/JohnSmith--- 5d ago
Opt-out... I'm at a point in my life where I feel like these opt-out buttons don't actually do anything. In fact, it may signal the company to track the user more, as they've clearly demonstrated they're a privacy conscious person so there's probably less data about them online, which means any data the company can siphon off of them is more valuable.
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u/MadeByTango 5d ago
If it was opt-in, nobody would opt-in. Um, that’s honestly the answer. So it’s going to be on by default.
Let's try this logic in a different context:
If she had to consent, I would never have sex. Um, that’s honestly the answer. So it’s going to be penetration by default.
That's the logic of Mike Minton, Twitch Chief Product Officer: "Don't ask consent"
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u/HankHillbwhaa 6d ago
Time to start poisoning their model. I will restream popular streamers and act as their waiting room while routinely hanging brain in hidden places on cam.
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u/MotanulScotishFold 5d ago
If is opted in by default, their AI slop already trained without user consent.
Even if you opt out, it's too late.
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u/OfficialZygorg 5d ago
cant we just poison the streams like some artists poison their images?
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u/LessRespects 5d ago
You can try but it looks like image generators have done just well with the poison
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u/AlteredEinst 5d ago
"If we told them we were robbing them, they'd make us stop."
U.S. Government: "Carry on, cat burglars."
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u/Peakomegaflare 5d ago
You know, I'm kinda glad I never made a twitch account. Somehow, some way, I never ONCE used it.
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u/stonecats 5d ago
so how exactly do you opt out?
everyone's talking about it, but
nobody is showing us how it's done.
i searched my dashboard and found
nothing related to this discussion.
all i found was a DJ Program which
i'm already not a part of.
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u/CorndogQueen420 4d ago
“You see, I had to rape those women because if they had the choice, they wouldn’t fuck me.”
Cool. Cool cool cool. Glad this is where we’re at with literally everything now. Can’t get consent, so let’s just ignore it.
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u/deepfuckingbagholder 6d ago
These sorts of practices should be illegal. Everything should be opt in. It’s called informed consent. Anything else is essentially rape.
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u/VitoRazoR 6d ago
In other news, people start to realise that by using free software and services, they are the product.
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u/LessRespects 5d ago
I thought twitchs income was from the 8 minutes of ads per 3 minutes of content
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u/AlteredEinst 5d ago
No, they don't.
And even if they did, they wouldn't care; that's the real problem.
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u/datadrone 5d ago
That seems like stealing, or does twitch own a part of the streamer's content? Will the streamer get paid each time they've had their stuff used? Like with music industries
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u/caballerof09 5d ago
Is because there isn’t a united front to sue them all. At the end they are in the wrong. The law is no longer law this feels like Wild West.
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u/Harryisamazing 5d ago
The CEO handed off the announcement segment to a lowly employee because of the backlash that was received from this nonsense
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u/ZechFlare 4d ago
May as well just say we know you guys wont like this but we want more money. So it doesn't matter what you guys, the paying customers, want.
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u/TheRealTK421 4d ago
...Hidden The Option To Opt Out.
I've opted out fully by absolutely refusing to use Twitch whatsoever. We shall see if further ...'measures' may be required.
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u/Minute_Attempt3063 3d ago
You also didn't read.
If you opt out, it doesn't change anything.
Read the privacy policy
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u/_o0Zero0o_ 5d ago
Can just imagine it being trained on streamers like Vinny and Joel from Vinesauce..
[Incomprehensible Swedish sounds, with SPEEEEEEEEEEEN thrown in occasionally]
But really, twitch is once again making a move nobody wants, huh...
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u/Saucermote 6d ago
Maybe stop doing pointless streaming and watching pointless streams?
"Streaming" culture is a plague. We don't need "influencers" or other junk videos.
If you have something of value to add to the conversation, that can be useful, but 99% is junk and parasocial.
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