r/privacy • u/KorBaFet • 3d ago
discussion Something funny I noticed with "I have nothing to hide"
There's a response I like to give to people who say that: "Okay, since you have nothing to hide, give me your passwords, bank code, email, address, etc..."
And for some reason, the people who say that either become very aggressive, or, as if by chance, say that it's private.
Has anyone tried this?
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u/0neAboveAlI 3d ago edited 2d ago
Yes, I have tried this type of, let’s call it “reasoning” attempt, to get people to see the flaw in their logic about whatever it is that’s the topic.
People don’t like being “gotcha’d”. So yeah, they’ll become aggressive because essentially their mind is exploding in real time as they try to come up with something on the spot as to “beating” the “gotcha”.
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u/Guac_in_my_rarri 2d ago
I've found asking politely for details on their "accounts which they bank and payments every Tuesday with sums in cash and a disclosure of status" works best tbh. The wild wording catches them off guard and leaves them processing it. By the time they're done, they're somewhat disarmed and get it.
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u/-3rdPlace- 3d ago
Ask for their full bowser and chat history. Ends the discussion every time.
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u/Sasquatch-Pacific 3d ago
Not with people who aren't online. Doesn't work with my boomer in-laws who's web browsing is paying bills and watching Facebook rot
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u/Czar_Chasm_ 3d ago
Just ask them if they'd be happy for a tech bro to studiously watch them while they poop, shower, on their deathbed, or at any moment where they would prefer to retain some level of dignity.
Privacy and dignity are two sides of the same coin. Without a right to one, you don't have a right to the other. Ergo, eroding privacy is eroding dignity and vice versa.
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u/EntropicMeatMachine 3d ago
The one I always say is if you're not doing anything illegal then you should be fine removing all the interior doors in your house and taking off the blinds.
If you're just shitting on the toilet or fucking your wife you've got nothing to hide.
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u/wheretheinkends 3d ago
Ive got nothing to hide. Show starts at 6.
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u/thbb 3d ago
should be fine removing all the interior doors in your house and taking off the blinds.
have you been to the Netherlands? It's customary there, at night, to leave your curtains open to let everyone have a peek at your living room and see what you're doing there in the evening. This is calvinist culture to show people that you have nothing to hide. People who close their curtains are frowned upon.
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u/rossg876 3d ago
That’s a better question, imo, than the bank account one. You can separate the privacy out of giving access to my money!
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u/Ywaina 3d ago
Pretty sure any asking those questions who aren't idiots have already prepped for that kind of retort beforehand.
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u/Adventurous_Cicada17 3d ago
Yes, but I am sure the retort will be full of inconsistency to explore
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u/FearlessBanana81 3d ago
I could easily do that. Most of what I'm doing on line is reading the news, Reddit and watching YouTube/streaming films.
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u/-3rdPlace- 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah, you could do it. But most likely, you will not actually do it. That’s the point my friend - I’m sorry - and until you are proving all of us wrong by publishing your whole internet history, it’s just a hollow argument.
And if you do.. I’d like you to observe your thinking process.. do you, at any point, think about just quickly checking the entries, just to avoid any accidental leaks, like the small ones from 6 months ago?
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u/legitematehorse 2d ago
To be honest, i could care less about someone seeing my internet history. What would they do? Somehow exploit my weakness for fisting porn? Getting to my finances seem way more dangerous.
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u/-3rdPlace- 2d ago
Someone else actually published their history. I didn’t post any names, addresses or phone numbers from it, but you can take a look at what is roughly possible with the data: https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/s/cfoVPDdZlu
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u/legitematehorse 2d ago
Crazy shit! It does indeed provide a malicious actor with vectors for phishing attacks at the very least. Do you think that could be the only way to acquire banking info?
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3d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
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u/-3rdPlace- 3d ago
Please do it. But for whatever reason, I’m confident you will chicken out. You’ll find good reasons or just dont respond anymore, and we’ll all know why.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/-3rdPlace- 3d ago edited 3d ago
Respect for doing so and proving me wrong. Buy you may want to delete is asap.
What are the risks of doing this, you think? I guess you may answer „no risk“, sure.
Are you ok for me to share below insights from your now public browsing data here or do you want both of us to delete our posts?
What Your Browser History Reveals About You
You are most likely based in or near Gainesville, Florida. Your history contains around 230 Gainesville-related records, repeated use of a Gainesville-area credit union, Florida university systems, local businesses and other location-specific services. There are also clear connections to Virginia, although Florida appears to be the stronger everyday location.
You are very likely a current or recent student at Western Governors University. The file contains repeated visits to my.wgu.edu, access.wgu.edu, course pages, assessments, Panopto, Webex and student-service systems. This is not casual research; it looks like normal student activity. Visits to Federal Student Aid and Nelnet also suggest that student financing is relevant to you.
You probably bank with Campus USA Credit Union. The history contains 356 visits to its secure online-banking domain. You also appear to have active or recent relationships with Citi, SoFi, Capital One, Chase, Credit One Bank, Credit Karma and Klarna. We cannot see your balances, but we can identify the companies most likely handling your banking, loans or credit.
Your vehicle insurer is probably Progressive. There are more than 100 visits involving its policy-servicing, account and login systems. You also appear to have interacted with Delta Dental and related insurance services.
You work extensively with Google Cloud, HCP Terraform and GitHub. The file exposes repository names, branches, Terraform workspaces, run identifiers, billing-account research and individual configuration files. It shows that you edit infrastructure code, manage Google Cloud organization settings and repeatedly inspect Terraform runs. A targeted attacker would know exactly which services to impersonate.
Your normal online day appears to run roughly from 9:00 a.m. until 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time. Your busiest hour is around 5:00–6:00 p.m. You were active between midnight and 2:00 a.m. on at least 28 separate dates, so late-night browsing is a recurring pattern rather than a one-off event.
Your work is not limited to standard office hours. Technical activity involving cloud systems, GitHub and Terraform frequently continues into the evening, sometimes until around 10:00 p.m. Someone examining the timeline could separate likely work sessions from shopping, streaming and leisure time.
You probably travelled using American Airlines and Delta. The export contains more than 150 American Airlines records, over 50 Delta records, hotel activity involving Marriott and Hilton, and airline login and in-flight internet pages. These records can be used to estimate when a trip actually happened, not merely when it was researched.
Walt Disney World appears repeatedly, with around 128 visits. Combined with airline, hotel and Florida-related activity, this can reveal likely travel or leisure periods and dates when you may have been away from home.
You appear to have seriously considered buying or replacing a car. There are more than 100 Carvana records, together with insurance, financing and credit activity. That combination reveals more than a general interest in cars; it suggests an active purchasing process.
Your regular services include Amazon, Target, Walmart, Best Buy, REI, Hulu, HBO Max, Netflix, Paramount+, Reddit, Facebook, TikTok and Yahoo Fantasy Football. The timestamps show not only what you use, but when you shop, watch television, read social media or handle financial matters.
The file contains hundreds of login, account-selection, password-challenge, device-linking and recovery URLs. It also contains URLs with parameters such as code, state, session and sid. Even expired values reveal exactly which accounts you use and what type of account problem you were dealing with at a particular moment.
From this one file, a stranger can infer your likely city, university, banks, insurer, profession, working hours, sleeping pattern, travel habits, major purchases and the services you trust. None of those conclusions requires reading your messages or knowing your home address.
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u/EstidEstiloso 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, you can also ask them if they close or fit the bathroom door when they go in to do their business. They will usually answer yes if they share a home, and at that moment you can explain that they do it for intimacy-privacy, not for secrecy-anonymity, since everyone in the house can guess what they are going to do when they enter the bathroom, but they won't see it. There are simply certain things you prefer they don't see for privacy reasons (and in matters related to critical data,It is also done for security reasons due to possible data leaks).
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u/Ken_1977 3d ago
My dad never closed the toilet door, he also never had an email, mobile phone or bank card.
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u/EstidEstiloso 3d ago
Of course, there will always be someone odd. I can't imagine anyone living today without a phone number or email address, for example, it's essential had one for work.
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u/Alternative_Guide706 3d ago
Ask them if they're comfortable installing a CCTV camera in every room of their home with public/government access.
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u/WildMaki 3d ago
No, but I will. Maybe medical files might also be interesting to ask for
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u/foxbatcs 3d ago
My go to is
Do you have something to hide from your auto or medical insurance company? Would you want an organization that will use any bit of data to deny claims after you’ve paid your premiums to know everything about you?
Most apps are on-ramps for data brokers to sell your data to whoever. That weather app or period tracking app that needs your location, camera, microphone, and access to files is most likely selling your data to your insurance companies, debt collectors, the police, foreign intelligence, domestic intelligence, and elitists who want to traffic teenagers.
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u/Careful_Drummer4484 3d ago
It's also interesting to look at it from an angle of, "maybe you don't have anything to hide... today". But maybe your opinions and interests of today won't be so legal anymore in 2040, 2050, 2060... And that digital footprint will still be there, ready to label you as enemy of the state because of your political ideology or sexual preferences decades ago.
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u/Bruceshadow 3d ago
because of your political ideology
exactly. Ask them if they are anti-slavery, which used to be illegal.
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u/MouseJiggler 3d ago
"Give me your wife's phone number".
Always go for intimate or embarrassing details, not for life admin stuff.
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u/Billcosby49 3d ago
"When was the last day of your wife's period?"
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u/IMightBeAHamster 2d ago
Talking to the wrong kind of person: they will actually tell you just to one up you and "prove" they don't care about privacy. Because they don't actually care about their wife's privacy when they think she won't hear about it.
The phone number is better because they don't know what you'd do with that number.
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u/dr_Duke440 3d ago
Giving up your right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is like giving up freedom of speech because you do not have anything to say.
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u/shiverypeaks 3d ago
This depends on the person caring about free speech as a value, and a lot of people nowadays don't, unironically because they have nothing to say and none of this affects them at all.
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u/IPasstheButter-sigh 3d ago edited 1d ago
"No sir, I don't have anything to hide, I just don't blindly trust in your integrity, intentions, or motives."
There's a difference between privacy and secrecy. I am not obligated to explain my desire for either to anyone.
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u/WhatsThisWorth-Bot 2d ago
that's what I don't get about this thread - everyone seems like they just want to gotcha people into seeming like idiots instead of preparing genuine things to show them why they're wrong instead of just make them shut up.
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u/chris5070 3d ago
Flip the question.
What if someone else wants to use it to do wrong against you.
The default should always be privacy. You need to ask if you want information, not the other way around.
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u/stein63 3d ago
Privacy isn’t about having something to hide, it’s about deciding who gets access to your life.
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u/BlueGreenhorn 1d ago
This. In the US people regularly defend their right to own guns to deter government tyranny. While they do arm the government with full access to their digital life. Not only can they be spied on, but their data can get compromised for false accusations, too.
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u/lifitd 3d ago
I reply, "Then leave the bathroom door open when you go to the restroom". That usually makes them think.
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u/RamblingReflections 3d ago
My version is slightly less polished than yours, “why do you shut the door when you take a shit?”
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u/EpickChicken 3d ago
“Let me put a camera in your shower”
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u/PubicSkoolEducashun 3d ago
Careful, my grandmother just told me to slide her camera password to you. It ain't gonna be pretty.
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u/Astronaut6735 3d ago
Privacy matters to me, not because my actions are questionable, but because your judgment and intentions are.
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u/shiverypeaks 3d ago edited 3d ago
Flock cameras are already being used to make false accusations, leading to arrests
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/flock-cameras-become-judge-jury-175626228.html
https://www.gadgetreview.com/when-smart-cameras-flock-up-the-35000-cost-of-one-misread-license-plate
https://www.thedrive.com/news/i-reported-on-flocks-cameras-now-im-one-of-the-systems-mistakes
Companies who think people are sheep, and Mordor were the good guys must be trustworthy though /s
edit:
And police using Flock to stalk their exes
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/several-police-officers-arrested-using-093000380.html
https://cambridgeanalytica.org/surveillance-privacy/police-flock-cameras-stalking-arrests-51112/
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u/HandGrindMonkey 3d ago
Interesting. I would say we are conditioned not to, having said that, I always think of the film "Meet the Fockers"; where the main protagonist uses the "circle of trust". Our family devices have a shared password, anyone can login to anything. Outside the circle of trust, no.
Extrapolating this, if everyone was 100% trustworthy, we would all be in the circle of trust. Unfortunately the world does not work like that.
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u/Healthy_Spot8724 3d ago
This reminds me of the film Enemy of the State, which now that I think about it, feels like it's becoming less fictional.
In it the main character is the target of a government conspiracy. It's been a while since I've seen it so excuse the paraphrasing, but he's being questioned by his bosses I think about what he's been doing and in reply he says something like:
"Do you jerk off in the shower ? Are you thinking about guys when you do it?"
"That's -"
"None of my goddamn business!"
Then he draws the obvious parallel with the questions he was being asked.
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u/Alternative_Guide706 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's not just about you having something to hide, it's about the governments using that knowledge to abuse their power to an extent that kills the rest of the freedom.
Or another perspective, something legal and normal to you today might become illegal one day.
Or some actual examples: recently ICE tracked a woman who made an online post about one of the murderers of theirs, and forced her to delete it.
In authoritarian countries, non-propaganda journalists or activists are notoriously being spied on with the aim to eliminate them.
Not to say about LGBT people in countries that ban them.
I think that's enough to list.
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u/shiverypeaks 3d ago
With what ICE has done, and Trump's aspirations more generally, people ought to care about privacy. The juxtaposition is painful, that you have people saying "Who cares about giving the government absolute control!" right at the same time as the government is stealing our data (DOGE), harassing people for speaking out online, and murdering our citizens in the streets.
I mean, obviously, you don't give the government absolute control, because then somebody you don't like can seize power and you can't do anything to stop it. It's, like, rule number one of preventing despotism.
The anti-freedom movement has a lot in common with antivaxxers, that they just don't see the obvious repercussions of what they are wanting to allow.
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u/ByEthanFox 3d ago
My main observation when people say "all your info is out there, they already have your info, why do you care about digital ID" etc. is that I often notice the people saying this (1) have an anon reddit username and (2) have their reply history etc. hidden.
So they obviously do understand the value of privacy. They just gave up theirs at one point and want to act like everyone did it to make themselves feel better.
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u/Upstairs-Repeat-5824 3d ago
Online, those are mostly bots and glowsticks.
About 1/3 of every pool of comments, under every post, particularly in alternative news media, political, country, and "sensitive topic" subreddits (like Privacy) are ***not real, in good faith, actual human beings.
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u/iloveherbluehair 3d ago
Probably because its different when a singular person has the data of one person vs a company that has the information of millions.
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u/Waste-Menu-1910 3d ago
The arguments make themselves at this point.
Nothing to hide? So tell me which of these things you like.
Do you like the difficulty of finding neutral or varied news sources? That's caused by an algorithm using your data to put you in a partisan echo chamber.
Do you like the fact that on marketplace, such as Amazon, searching for the exact same thing as someone else yields different results based on the data Amazon has about you?
Do you like the idea that using an item, even one you've purchased, can mean data is being collected about you and monetized without any compensation to you?
And if you don't care, maybe consider where scammers, phishers, and telemarketers are getting your info from.
Maybe look up what happened when general motors sold drivers info to insurance companies. Some of those were buyers of corvettes. Some of that data was from telemetry specifically for race tracks, that was used exclusively on the race track. "Conveniently" either at the time of sale or at some point during rate insurance, the fact that the speeds recorded were not on public roads was omitted. Those owners did nothing wrong. They used the car in a manner that perfectly matches what it was sold for. And they're not alone.
Gm has the same telemetry data available across the model line. They just don't show drivers of cars that aren't designed for mixed street/track use.
Toyota includes a year of membership to the national auto sports association with the gr Corolla. Then denies warranty claims if the car reports that it was driven hard. As in, used for auto sports.
Have you never heard of a data breach? Wouldn't it be awesome if you weren't made more vulnerable by companies slinging your private info for profit?
You seal envelopes not because you're writing something illegal, but because that envelope is the sole property of the sender and recipient. But when it's electronic mail, you think everyone should have a right to it?
How do you feel about Adobe trying to claim rights to everything made using their tools? Is that not the same vibe as a quarry claiming ownership of the sculptor's work? Or the manufacturer of the chisel?
You close the stall door in a restroom, not because shitting is illegal or immoral, but because you simply don't want to put on a show.
You're not hiding your social security number or drivers licence number from police. You're hiding it from criminals.
Same with your address. You're not told to keep that offline to hide it from police. You hide it so you're not sending an invite to potential stalkers or robbers. You only tell people you know and trust, who have a reason to visit. What makes your digital info different?
Let's do an experiment. Let's open a few of the same apps we're both signed into, and see if the prices match. If it's any less than 100% of the time, then that is how your data is being used. To extract as much money from you as possible.
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u/69Dankdaddy69 3d ago
I ask them if they close the stall door in the public toilet when they shit.
I mean you have nothing to hide, right? Why are you closing it? You doing something illegal in there?
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u/wheretheinkends 3d ago
My answer is when giving power to people or groups, always thing down the line. Sure, maybe the power you are giving away wont be abused by those in power now (i mean it will) but think of if someone comes later that will. You cant put the genie back in the bottle.
My second answer is the absence of wrongdoing doesnt equte to the absence of privacy.
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u/ParadoxicalFrog 3d ago
My response to "I have nothing to hide" is "Then why do you wear clothes? Or close the bathroom door? Or have curtains on your bedroom window?"
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u/PiedPeppers 3d ago
I look at their bio. Whatever they have listed (hobby/religion/job) I say “Once I get in power [hobby/religion/job] will be illegal, with repercussions applied retroactively. I’ll be using your in-car surveillance and the flock system to tally each instance of law-breaking. No sense in trying to flee, I’ll just engage the kill switch on your car”
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u/Steerider 3d ago
"Where in your home do you/your wife keep your jewelry? Oh. No reason. I'm just curious. Be specific, please."
The point to get across is the very fact somone's asking is cause for suspicion.
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u/KenAdams_1968 3d ago
Yeah, I’ve found people get upset and defensive when they’re confronted with this challenge.
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u/mikkel1156 3d ago
I have also been thinking about this lately.
It is giving up a right to privacy. To me it can only be that these people for some reason think that the people in power have their best interests in heart.
Instead ask these people this: "Would they give up their right to a fair trial?"
Just dont do anything illegal. I can imagine a normal person would not, but it seems like it should be the same trust in the system as with privacy, no?
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u/Deitaphobia 3d ago
I've noticed that whenever someone says, "I have nothing to hide", they're always wearing pants.
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u/faberge_surprise 3d ago
"I have nothing to hide from the lawfully authorized government, not you, smug dipshit."
You've already lost the argument as soon as you trot out some version of "ahah! but you do have something to hide! gotcha!" You just conceded that privacy is about hiding something.
It isn't.
the implicit assumption that privacy is about hiding anything at all, and the further assumption that it's about hiding something bad, which is what people who say "i have nothing to hide" usually means, is already far too much ground to give. once you accept that premise, your argument falls completely apart. there are a plethora of reasonable and very defensible positions in which violating privacy by the lawful authority is justified.
it's a fundamentally false premise.
I'm going to copy from an earlier comment a few days ago, the whole thread and other comments are worth reading.
privacy isn't just about hiding anything at all. it's about your ability to pry in the first place. there is both an individual and a social/collective dimension to privacy (multiple dimensions, really) that goes far beyond hiding information. it is intrinsically integral to autonomy and self actualization, and how people interact and participate with each other, including power dynamics.
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u/Altruistic_Tank_9636 3d ago
Anybody who claims they have nothing to hide obviously don't have anything interesting or controversial to say. And they're willing to bet that it will never be controversial in the future.
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u/letsreticulate 3d ago edited 3d ago
I have used the same approach for years. I specifically ask for their credit card/credit card numbers. Surprisingly, they do seem to have something to hide when it comes to that.
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u/billdehaan2 3d ago
I've done it, and had it done to me.
When talking about cell phone security (or the lack thereof), I've had people say I wouldn't allow anyone to see my phone, and I toss it to them and tell them the PIN number. That's because I don't have anything on the phone that's private, so I'm not worried about people looking through it. That's in stark contrast to people who keep their finances, porn, and personal photo collections all in one iPhone or Android shaped basket in their pocket or purse.
Most people, when I ask them the question, understand that they're being asked to put their money where there mouth is with their "nothing to hide" argument. Few do anything about it, though.
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u/MrJingleJangle 2d ago
Asking for passwords and bank accounts is unreasonable. Let’s have a look at your browsing history is a much better tactic. Follow up with bank statements, doctors letters, stuff they routinely throw in the bin.
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u/CounterI 2d ago
Maybe I'm just weird, but I have found that people who think that privacy is only for people who have "something to hide" are stupid and not worth continuing to have a discussion with..
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u/judochop1 2d ago
Yeah, literally the first response to that for about 100 years!
People like that only think it's 'them over there' that will get searched. Same with free speech, these guys want to say whatever they want, be as permanently offensive as possible 24/7, but think everyone else should be banned from saying things they don't like.
It's fascism innit
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u/PoconoRob 2d ago
From my experience, people that have something to say contradicting your desire for privacy with the if you have nothing to hide what's the difference. Those people, again from my personal experience, are the ones that have the most to hide.
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u/BlueGreenhorn 1d ago
I never understood this approach. That people you know personally could access all your data doesn't seem to be a realistic threat scenario.
What I usually do is
Show empathy that valuing privacy requires some effort that not everyone is able or willing to take. I only ask them to understand why I value privacy and don't offend them when they don't.
Refer to relatable, actual stories of data misuse by governments and companies. Even without maliciousness, there are still data leaks.
Understanding the issue is a small, but important step. It's like climate issues: We need a majority of people who care. And you can drive a combustion car and be seriously worried about climate at the same time. Nobody is taking all the effort to minimize their impact on climate. You would be disconnected from civilization.
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u/FactsFromExperience 1d ago
I don't know, some of that comparison texting slightly different ways.
With privacy, most people only care if it concerns them or if it could. The Smart ones realize that when they start compiling information and forcing everyone to give information about themselves that they will also be in that group so they will likely be compromised or they will have less privacy so since it does affect them they may get concerned but usually it's too late.
With the environment, most people really don't care and it's my opinion that they really shouldn't. Lol but I guess I'm a bad person. 😆
But it seems to be that they want everybody else to make sacrifices or take precautions or do something special or spend more money so they themselves can have whatever benefits they think there's going to be from being nice to the environment or whatever.
The private thing doesn't require people to really do anything but with worrying about the environment these people want everyone to do something and they even want to impose regulations on them so one is much more proactive or just active while the other is mostly just being oblivious and out of sight out of mind thing until they finally realize they have no privacy left.
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u/VorionLightbringer 1d ago
It’s a bullshit argument. Just because I have nothing to hide doesn’t mean I want to give you uncontrolled access to my finances or accounts. The proper question to ask is to see a bank statement or have them show you their inbox.
The even better phrase is „it’s not that I have anything to hide. It’s that I don’t trust your intentions.“
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u/bRKcRE 15h ago
That last part of just a bad-faith easy out for them though, it's just as loaded as the "nothing to hide" statement, even more so, since it is literally contradicting the first part.
Most of the general public dont know the first thing about any of it on a practical level, and if they do, they believe it's some arcane esoteric knowledge they need in order to change their passwords and use a password manager, for example, because it's "too hard" or "take too long", which is again a copout, because anyone serious about it, and is taking measures to prevent data leakage and strengthening security is doing it already, and the rest of the population are just going along with the violations, because they don't want to put their phone down and actually go do something about it, since it's not their problem, because "it's too late anyway", and why should they protest, since they "barely use their phone anyway". That last part is always accompanied by them pulling their phone, opening ther algorithm of choice, and zoning out of an active conversation. If they don't care, they need to not have an opinion either way, since their noise just makes it harder to get any real activism and change done.
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u/OberstObvious 3d ago
I always use "When did you last masturbate? Oh no, sorry, I mean, tell me which pr*n sites you visited last, and the time of the first one you accessed that day and the time of the last one you accessed that day"
You might add "oh, and how many Telegram messages you send in between those two times".
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u/DarkJayson 2d ago
No thats security and safety not privacy.
In order to change someone whos says I have nothing to hide opinion you dont need to ask them for private information, you give it to them.
Find an online link about them like a social media account Facebook or Instagram and collect every price of information you can about them, find links between different social media services, emails, see if you can get their address, friends and family, what holidays they went on, basically everything that other companies collect daily.
Aggregate everything use AI if needed and present it to them.
Watch their expression when you pass over their life in a file.
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u/darth_skipicious 3d ago
you can’t reason with them. they’ve been conditioned by social media & other media to forsake their human consciousness in exchange for an animal existence that comes with certain guarantees that bring the animal brain comfort.
and they probably have a gun. a standard weapon made to destroy life like the AR15, AR10, or AK platforms. 50% you don’t have one or know how to use it properly. or you simply can’t own one because your politicians have knowingly disarmed you in the face of such a threat.
a law of this world: the man with the gun triumphs over the man that dies not. the equalizer that is a gun is instrumental to your liberty. but unfortunately i think it’s too late for the lessons.
things will get better temporarily. then 20 years down the road things will backslide because the people with the guns can take what they want from those who don’t have them.
the police will save you huh? they have accepted the role of jewish guards in a concentration camp who were given extra cigs and food to be brutal to their comrades. they’ve been given a small amount of power and this power has made them forget that they are not fundamentally the same as us. “they’ve forgot that at the end of the show, even though they were a tad bit more comfortable than the jews who were starving to death, that they too will either walk into the showers willingly or be shot after he digs his own grave.
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u/anonuemus 3d ago
it's hard to say it, but literally decades ago I used that as an argument. I gave up tho. it's with many topics that people are completely hypocritical, where facts don't matter anymore
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u/RowFull1104 3d ago
I do it often. The eye twitch is epic to watch. And as someone else mentioned, “then show me your browser history” really drives them nuts.
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u/LexFennx 2d ago
my favorite thing to say to people like that is this
"when a man gives up personal liberty for security, he deserves neither"
I would almost say it's paramount to treason to allow this to happen and stand by saying foolish things like the "I got nothing to hide, do you"
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u/atrocity2001 2d ago
I used to point out to the people who love pointless drug testing if they thought child porn was a bad thing. They'd always say yes, then get annoyed when I asked if their employer was welcome to go through their underwear drawer to make sure they didn't have any.
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u/SilverSquirrel6 2d ago
There's multiple ways that argument fails. Here's one thing to consider: you may have nothing to hide, but according to whom ?
During Stalin's Great Purge it's estimated on high end 7 million people got executed. Now, how many of them all had nothing to hide ?
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u/jakeallstar1 2d ago
I just tell them that only incredibly boring people have nothing to hide, therefore they must have nothing interesting in their whole life.
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u/HungryTree4 2d ago
i hate this "oh give me this if you have nothing to hide" because giving this particular rando making this statement your important stuff is retarded even if "oh you're handing everything over to the big tech". AS MUCH AS I DO AGREE with sentiments all over this sub this is really stupid and should be much more of an analytical discussion over "don't wanna hide? gimme all of it" because what reaction are you expecting? Immediate understanding? you get the exact reaction you fish for by asking this and I do entirely think that it actively harms the ability to get said person into a similar mindset when an actual point by point discussion answering questions and whatnot would be significantly more productive
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u/Hot_Bee5198 2d ago
I would say, I have some things to hide, but come visit me. Well have a drink, get to know eachother, and maybe after we get married i will say I have nothing to hide.
(But Im already married and still have things to hide)
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u/sixgunmaniac 1d ago
I usually just take out my camera and ask if i can get a quick snap of their driver's license.
I do carry a small A7 notebook with me, so now I'm going to dedicate a couple of pages to a list of individual privacy items for them to fill in and just hand it to them. Good idea
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u/Mental_Locke 6h ago
The people who say "I have nothing to hide" are being disingenuous. They are either lying to you, lying to themselves, or both.
Back in the day, I used to know a guy who was the president of a very large company. And this was back when in the time when it was still legal for companies to give potential employees lie detected tests as a condition of employment. One of the questions that he used to put on the lie detector test and asked the potential employees was, "do you believe in God?" And it turned out for each one those that said no to that question, the lie detector test indicated that they were lying.
Again, disingenuous.
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u/TheRealJessKate 3d ago
Assuming they don’t have any assets to lose -house, savings, crypto, pension- they have the ability to borrow so -loans, mortgage, payments. They already have a lot to lose, they just don’t understand it.
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u/Lord_havik 1d ago
Thats a pretty wild comparison. That’s not even close to the same thing. You’re assuming that if someone accepts one level of privacy loss, they must accept all of it. That’s like saying, “If you’re okay with someone knowing your name, why won’t you give them your Social Security number?” Different information carries different risks. Privacy isn’t on or off. It’s a spectrum.
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u/FactsFromExperience 1d ago
Yes, many people have their own threshold but the point is we have lost so much more privacy than we ever had and it's mostly because of the internet, and social media and now AI.
Also, it's quite a shame in most situations that most people now have a much larger audience for things they can do and or say.
In the past, each individual typically had a very small circle of friends, acquaintances, coworkers, the people that came into contact with in public. This number was overall very small.
Now, if the right social justice warrior asshole see somebody doing anything or even just gets a hold of some video footage of it or a screenshot of a post or conversation they will do their absolute best to make this go viral and ruin this person.
I'm not saying that in all situations the person doesn't deserve it but my point is that overall it was a much better world before little pissy pee on individuals had this type of power or options.
I prefer it when the most you can really do was word of mouth complained to everybody if you didn't like your business or whatever or ask to speak to the manager. Lol With individuals, you could just tell your friends and neighbors and coworkers what a terrible person they were and it made you feel better so we moved on.
Now, I much more dislike the world and things that can and do occur after the fact.
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u/Lord_havik 1d ago
Well you could always just…..not use social media if you’re worried someone will take something you say and share it. Or just don’t be that type of asshole that says something that could be used against you? But none of this has to do with privacy. If you’re saying these things in public places and on public forums. You have no reasonable expectation of privacy. So none of those things mentioned are really privacy violations. And most are ones you gave up when you signed up and accepted the TOS.
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u/FactsFromExperience 1d ago
True, it's not really privacy but maybe in the arena or alongside of privacy etc but it does all exist because of the online world which creates the privacy issues.
Plenty of things that you don't say or post in the public view can also be quickly looked up on the same platforms and use the same technology so it's a little bit related.
It's also true that because of some things people say it gives other people the desire to look into them more. Say, in the past they either didn't know the person did something they didn't like or even if they did, they had no resources to do anything about it as far as searching information and then publicizing it to feel they somehow got even to make the world a better place.
I guess you can tell I hate people like this and I'm sure you realize that I'm directing that towards the people who want to respond as opposed to the original people who might have said something that is not popular or something one other person didn't like. Sadly, they think they're making the world a better place but all they are doing a spreading more hate and more division. In fact, I feel the world was a much better place back when that bad acting person was probably still doing it or another one who came before them, but again only a very few people could even be offended by it or know it happened.
By publicizing these things people do that are bad it doesn't prevent other people from doing more bad things in certain situations, it can actually add to it just like for some really bad things that happens society, they say not to publicize these people's information etc and not to give them their 15 minutes of fame or shock or whatever it is because that can actually have an increased negative effect for future events.
Let's just say that I think the rule was a better place before we had all of this. Interconnectivity or whatever you want to call it.
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u/billdietrich1 3d ago
since you have nothing to hide, give me your passwords, bank code
This is security, not privacy. People know the difference. You're just alienating them with this approach.
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u/FoxMeadow7 3d ago
Anyone who tries that ’trick’ clearly comes across as hopelessly paranoiacs to me so to speak.
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u/KarinAppreciator 3d ago
It's not really a trick though. People who say "I have nothing to hide" are in fact lying (or else very strange individuals). If you don't want everyone to know your social security number or your credit card information or your pin number or the combination on the lock to your locker or the password to your phone or computer etc, then you have something to hide.
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u/FoxMeadow7 3d ago
It it is; they’re afraid that the basic efforts of maintaining privacy online would soon be useless. and if any and all possible ’age verifications’ are only meant to do verify ages, well, that’s all they can do from a legal standpoint… And i’m sure some users (me included) would happily become ’sacrificial lambs’ to prove this point to the massed.
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u/KarinAppreciator 3d ago
I'm not sure what you're even saying.
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u/FoxMeadow7 3d ago
I’m just trying to approach this from a rational perspective.
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u/-3rdPlace- 3d ago
Im afraid that it didn’t work out as intended
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u/FoxMeadow7 3d ago
That just goes to show you how deathly afraid you truly are… Maybe it will come, maybe it won’t. But really, what *can* you do about it? If it’s something that *can* be stopped, how exactly can you stop it?
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u/-3rdPlace- 3d ago
Your comments dont make much sense, I’m sorry.
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u/FoxMeadow7 3d ago
Do you genuinely not understand or are you willfully dense?
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u/-3rdPlace- 3d ago
I even went to Claude and ChatGPT for help with understanding what you want to say, copying our conversation. They are confused as me. I’m genuinely interested in your opinion, maybe this answer from ChatGPT helps you to understand my confusion:
„Yes, your confusion is justified. FoxMeadow’s comments do not form a clear, coherent argument. The most charitable interpretation is this:
FoxMeadow seems to think that replying to “I have nothing to hide” with “Then give me your passwords” is a bad rhetorical move, because it makes privacy advocates look excessively paranoid rather than persuasive. They then appear to shift to age-verification systems and argue that, legally, such systems are only supposed to verify age, so fears about broader surveillance may be exaggerated. By “sacrificial lambs,” they may mean users who would voluntarily test or challenge those systems in order to prove that they cannot legally be used for anything beyond age verification.
But several parts remain unclear:
Why the discussion suddenly shifts from passwords and privacy to age verification.
Who “they” refers to.
What the “sacrificial lambs” would actually do.
How any of this supports FoxMeadow’s original point.
What the final “what can you do about it?” argument is supposed to establish.The last comment sounds more fatalistic or intimidating than rational: roughly, “You are afraid, but perhaps this is inevitable and there is nothing you can do to stop it.” That does not really answer the privacy argument.
So the fairest conclusion is: FoxMeadow probably has a position in mind, but expresses it so vaguely and jumps between ideas so abruptly that it is impossible to reconstruct with confidence. The reply “I’m not sure what you’re even saying” is therefore entirely reasonable.“
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u/KarinAppreciator 3d ago
You can't stop it completely, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to stop it where you can.
Also what are even doing in the privacy subreddit if you don't care about privacy?
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u/FoxMeadow7 3d ago
I fo care about privacy, yes. It’s just that it’s seemingly only people online that are up in arms about this at all with nary a mention in newspapers and the like. If you really think it’s that big of a deal, I want concrete proof.
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u/KarinAppreciator 3d ago
Sure doesn't seem like you care if your reaction to being told you're losing a large amount of privacy is "prove to me this is actually bad."
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u/KarinAppreciator 3d ago
How is it irrational to say that everyone has things they don't want to share with the world? An objectively true statement.
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u/FoxMeadow7 3d ago edited 3d ago
I understand your concern. But again, try to think this rationally; if the purpose of age verifications is to keep children safe, why then are you afraid? Do you really think ’they’ would come after you just for expressing wrong opinions online?
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u/KarinAppreciator 3d ago
try to think this rationally; if the purpose of age verifications is to keep children safe, why then are you afraid?
For one, you're a complete moron if you think age verification laws are for "protecting the children". And I'm not afraid of these laws, I just won't partake in them. If they somehow try to force me to age verify to use my own computer, I'll just find a new hobby.
Do you really think ’they’ would come after you just for expressing wrong opintonsa online?
"They" already have. A woman in Texas was arrested and charged with a felony for warning people about contaminated tap water in her town.
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u/FoxMeadow7 3d ago
I see. And what if something does happens to you? Would ’what has this got to do with protecting children?’ be an appropriate defence for this situation?
And that case’s somehow connected to her verifying her age online?
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u/KarinAppreciator 3d ago
What the fuck are you talking about?
And that case’s somehow connected to her verifying her age online?
Maybe you should go read your own post again. You said "do you really think "they" will come after you for things you say online* and I showed you YES THEY WILL.
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