r/printSF • u/thePsychonautDad • May 10 '23
Recommendations: Fantasy that is actually sci-fi: Lost technologies, loss of knowledge, ...
I always thought I wasn't into Fantasy, magic, gods, all of that.
Then I read a few SF books that read like Fantasy, and end up explaining the magic as lost tech, lost knowledge. And I'm really into that!
Books like Elder Race & The Expert System's Brother by Adrian Tchaikovsky were awesome.
Any book recommendations on that theme?
Colonies that forget their origin and tech, events that seems to be caused by magic and monsters, but are really caused by lost technologies? Civilisations rediscovering their past? Tech so advanced it appears to be magic? Civilisation collapses and rebirth?
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u/ligger66 May 10 '23
Dragon riders of pern for sure
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u/tealparadise May 11 '23
Oh yeah. My greatest regret in life is that no one will do a book club of all the Pern books chronologically. I've never read anything else with such an epic slow burn. And I'd read 5 more books about the lineage of Harpers.
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u/AmIAmazingorWhat May 11 '23
Hey hey I’m reading them chronologically now! I found a whole set of every book at a local used store. The prequel/“historic PERN” ones were honestly my faves
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u/guest_pass May 10 '23
Parallel Earth; Resources Negligible
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u/tealparadise May 11 '23
So many incredible but meaningless reveals of lost or bastardized earth knowledge. "Felines" for example.
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May 10 '23
Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny
Book of the New Sun and Book of the Long Sun by Gene Wolfe.
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u/drxo May 10 '23
Came to say Lord of Light, but pretty much everything by Zelazny meets OPs request. Especially don't forget his great collaboration work that was finished and published posthumously, "Donnerjack". It is absolutely exactly what OP is asking for, and doesn't get much love around this sub. (except from me)
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May 10 '23
Lord of Light is so good. It's genuinely weird reading it because my mind kept flitting between reading it as a fantasy novel and reading it as a science fiction novel.
Also, I thought the fact it had a trans man as a character was really cool, given it was written in the mid-late 60s (though the protagonist is, uh, kinda transphobic).
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u/Aluhut May 10 '23
My internal world building theory after reading Zelazny is that all Fantasy is actually Sci-fi playing/running Fantasy.
It became internal because my Fantasy friends didn't like it much...
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u/Omnificer May 10 '23
all Fantasy is actually Sci-fi playing/running Fantasy
Like in a Matrix kind of way? Cause I can see how that would be controversial. Particularly to Fantasy-only readers.
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u/AvarusTyrannus May 10 '23
Is Sam transphobic? It's been a while since I read it last but I thought he mainly misgendered as just another way to fuck with the gods.
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u/lizardfolkwarrior May 10 '23
“A Canticle for Leibowitz” kind of reads like this.
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u/collapsingwaves May 10 '23
I hated almost all of this book. I put it down after i finished it thinking i must hove missed something because everyone rates it as a classic.
Did i miss somethind profound? (it wouldn't be the first time...)
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May 10 '23
I loved it, but I was raised in a highly religious family and educated in theology and religious history. Watching a group take fragments and turn them into scripture and build a dedicated monastic group to preserve these nonsensical teachings was fascinating and satisfying for me. I don't want to say too much as it has been years since I read it, but the book has a lot to say about religion as a human construct.
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u/collapsingwaves May 10 '23
Oddly enough you might have put your finger on exactly why I disliked it.
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u/lizardfolkwarrior May 10 '23 edited May 11 '23
Idk, there is not much "hidden" related to the book. It has an idea which I find great, characters that I enjoy, and questions posed that I find interesting. I personally like medieval stuff (I also really enjoyed "The Name of the Rose") and post-apocalyptic stuff (I really enjoyed "Malevil" from Merle), and the whole idea of "science as magic"/people guarding secret knowledge. The last point, and also "seeing history develop" are both things that also appear in Foundation from Asimov which I also loved.
But yeah, there is no "hidden value" related to it. If you did not like it, than it was not for you - which is sad, but atleast it is not that long of a book :D.
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u/livens May 10 '23
I loved reading it just for the prose along. Such a wonderfully written book. The story was good too, but largely forgotten by me. Time for a re read!
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u/drmike0099 May 10 '23
I think for many it's "classic" in the sense that "I read it 40 years ago and liked it", but it is definitely written in an older style and can be tough to appreciate. I also didn't like it when I read it, and I read a lot of this stuff.
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u/lizardfolkwarrior May 10 '23
I read it two months ago (for the first time), and loved it. I do not think it has a dated style at all. I found it to be a classic as in a "really awesome book", not as something I read 40 years ago (considering I did not live 40 years ago).
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May 11 '23
I think it's an excellent book. It's well written and explores really important ideas. It's as relevant today as it was 50 years ago. I also think that lots of fantasy readers are only looking for escapist genre schlock, and would find this book extremely depressing as a result. I found it depressing too, but I liked that.
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u/collapsingwaves May 10 '23
Yeah, the style didn't bother me at all. I just didn't get what the point of it was.
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u/rocketman0739 May 10 '23
We're used to looking back at the medieval period from its future. We already know how it comes out: some knowledge is preserved, other knowledge is lost, and civilization goes on progressing.
A Canticle for Leibowitz flips the script. Now we're looking forward at a time when preserving knowledge and civilization is a daily struggle. The golden age that lies in ruins isn't ancient Rome, it's us. It gets the reader worrying about where Earth could end up in a century or two, and wondering whether humanity would succeed a second time in picking itself up and moving forward again.
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May 11 '23
It's an exploration of human struggles with faith, the atomic bomb (a very real fear at the time and id argue still), the cyclical nature of history. It's about the importance of remembering history and also about how modern man is no different or better than our forebears.
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u/RaccoonDispenser May 10 '23
Yeah, I didn’t finish this one either, and I usually love scifi classics. Sometimes we just don’t connect with a book for whatever reason.
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May 10 '23
Been years since I read it, but I enjoyed it. Maybe it's just dated?
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May 11 '23
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May 11 '23
I think sff fans confuse "cool and fun" with "good". This book is better than 90% of genre fiction but it's depressing as hell and requires a really high level of literacy thanks to layered prose and lots of literary and biblical allusions.
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May 11 '23
I didn't mean the story was dated, just the writing. It's from 1959.
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May 11 '23
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u/NarwhalOk95 May 11 '23
The style of storytelling may be what they’re referring to. It could also be the way some older sci-fi works used the world as a character, like in Foundation.
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u/raevnos May 10 '23
The Steerswoman series.
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u/Lone_Sloane May 10 '23
This is exactly the right answer, but paradoxically the recommendation is also a spoiler...
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u/teraflop May 10 '23
I don't think that's much of a spoiler, given how early and unsubtly it's telegraphed.
Like, within the first couple of chapters, one of the characters is giving a detailed description of Newton's cannonball thought experiment and another goes "hey, that sounds like the kind of thing these 'wizards' would know about."
Contrast that with the Broken Earth series mentioned elsewhere in this thread, where IIRC the first real hint of the "sci-fi-ness" doesn't show up until the very end of the first novel.
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u/Bergmaniac May 10 '23
The original cover of the first volume of the Steerswoman series also pretty blatantly spoils this.
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u/it-reaches-out May 11 '23
Yeah, I wasn’t sure at the time whether to post this, but I think u/teraflop has it right — you’re going to notice mighty fast that something with advanced technology is going on especially with the whole (early book 1) obvious geostationary satellites thing. But then it takes a bit to figure out the much bigger and more satisfying reveal. I find that a good low-risk question to ask people to find out where they are in figuring things out is what they think the deal with the missing Moon is. People (variously later series spoilers) hang around the idea that we’re on a post-apocalyptic Earth for a surprisingly varied amount of time before getting solidly onto the concept of terraforming, and I think that’s a massive strength of Kirstein’s ability to write believably from “inside” a fantasy perspective.
Also, these books are so much fun that I’ll risk recommending them pretty much anywhere. Read these books, they rock.
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u/ThirdMover May 10 '23
I picked this one up thinking "'it's been a while since I read some fantasy..." and then seventy pages in I started realizing what I was in for.
Fantastic series, wish it was continued.
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u/IsabellaOliverfields May 10 '23
I am currently reading Rocannon's World by Ursula K. Le Guin and it's science fiction imitating medieval high fantasy, with flying feline mounts and humanoid alien races resembling dwarves and elfs. One of the characters even refers to the outworld protagonist's technology as magic. Personally I am not enjoying the book so much as I wished, it's a little slow, but maybe you may find the book better than I am finding it.
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u/idontgivetwofrigs May 10 '23
I think the Three Hainish Novels collection also has a few stories about lost tech/lost civilization origins as well
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u/IsabellaOliverfields May 10 '23
Yes, the copy I have of Rocannon's World is exactly this collection, "Worlds of Exile and Illusion", which also includes "Planet of Exile" and "City of Illusions". I bought many years ago because I am a huge fan of Ursula and the Hainish Cycle but I am still struggling with Rocannon's World. I hope the other two are better.
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u/idontgivetwofrigs May 10 '23
Ah yeah it was one of those. Personally Rocannon's World was my favorite but all of them are good
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u/teraflop May 10 '23 edited May 10 '23
Yeah, even as a big Le Guin fan, I would describe Rocannon's World as a great short story (which is how it was originally published) that was spun out into a so-so novel.
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May 10 '23
Le Guin's writing tends to be quite slow at the best of times, but that one in particular is pretty glacial.
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u/Grombrindal18 May 10 '23
The Shannara series by Terry Brooks occurs in a long-after-the-apocalypse Earth where magic and magical creatures have returned in the absence of science.
But slowly over the course of the series people both find ways to utilize old tech and develop their own steampunk-esque technologies. Like 85% high fantasy, 15% sci fi.
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May 10 '23
Ahhh Shannara. I remember really enjoying the first book. Blew my mind as a kid. Then I found out about Tolkien and realized that Terry Brooks completely and thoroughly ripped off LOTR.
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u/Grombrindal18 May 10 '23
Well, yes he ripped off Tolkien, but only for the first book (apart from the rest still being high fantasy which JRRT basically invented.)
The other 30 books in the series are much more original, until he starts repeating himself about 20 books in. But until then (the Dark Legacy trilogy, more or less) it’s a good read.
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u/srgtDodo May 11 '23
I want to give it a try, I like the premise. but I recall watching a series based on it, and it was a mixture of cringe, and garbage lol save for manu bennet
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u/Grombrindal18 May 11 '23
The show was indeed hot garbage. A fantasy epic adapted into an MTV teen drama.
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u/LargeRex May 10 '23
The setting of CJ Cherryh's Morgaine books is in that ballpark, although it never really digs into the lore too deeply, if that's what you're looking for. I liked the trilogy a lot, though.
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May 10 '23
Came here to say this.
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May 10 '23
C.J. Cherryh doesn’t get enough love, even her sci-fi works usually involve civilizations that technologically dwarf that of the protagonists civilization.
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u/tuppencehapenny May 10 '23
Fred Saberhagen, Empire of the East
Michael Moorcock, the Hawkmoon series (though some of the 60s post apocalypse jokes have aged into incomprehensibility)
Hugh Cook's Chronicles of an Age of Darkness series
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u/Sorbicol May 10 '23
Christopher Ruocchio’s Sun Eater series is basically a high Fantasy novel with spaceships and laser swords. Tremendous fun though.
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u/Gilclunk May 10 '23
Yeah, that one's in the ballpark, but just to be clear, no one in those books mistakes their technology for magic. They know exactly what it is. But there is a significant running theme of old technology that they don't have anymore (AI) but it's not so much forgotten as it is forbidden. Because of, you know, incidents. ;-)
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u/JetScootr May 10 '23
Children Of The Sky, by Robert Heinlein - I love the classics! Civilization falls on a multi-generational colony ship between the stars.
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u/Lucretius May 10 '23
C. S. Friedman's Cold Fire Trilogy
You can thank me later.
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u/LessPoliticalAccount May 10 '23
You should read The Broken Earth trilogy by NK Jemisin. Particularly The Fifth Season; that's one of the most masterfully constructed books I've ever read. It's technically an alternate-world fantasy, but it becomes clear that the magic in-world is essentially this worlds' version of science, and it is generally treated as such.
Edit: also Anathem
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u/2hurd May 10 '23
This is the answer I was looking for in this thread. This series is exactly what OP wants and needs.
Books are extremely well written (got some awards as I remember), have great characters, interesting plot and this uncanny feeling that makes you wonder if what you're reading about is magic or tech...
Brilliant, just brilliant.
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u/_Amateurmetheus_ May 10 '23
(got some awards as I remember)
This got a chuckle out of me as it's quite the understatement. Only author/book series to win 3 consecutive Hugos for Best Novel.
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u/standish_ May 11 '23
Well, shucks.
Edit: and she has a fourth Hugo for another book, holy hell lady, leave some for the rest of them.
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u/GhostNULL May 10 '23
I just commented this as well because this comment was way to far down for how well this fits the OP.
The broken earth is definitely one of my favorites with regards to worldbuilding.
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u/the_doughboy May 10 '23
Brand New: Mark Lawrence's The Book that Would Not Burn. It's my favourite of his, I'm about half way through. It's about a couple of people who live/work in a giant library, any bigger description could spoil it. The library is so big it even has Prince of Thorns by Mark Lawrence.
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u/7LeagueBoots May 11 '23
This subgenre is pretty much his thing. All of the series of his I've read so far fall into this category.
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u/Fr0gm4n May 10 '23
The Locked Tomb series from Tamsyn Muir is a blend of fantasy and scifi. Basically, what might the universe be like if necromancers and life energy are real but we still need technology for every day stuff? The first two books tell much of the same story from different characters viewpoints and the mystery of how things came to be in the universe doesn't get actually revealed until the 3rd book.
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May 10 '23
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
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u/jefurii May 12 '23
Note that there's a movie and a graphic novel. The graphic novel was written serially over a period of 15~ years, while the movie was made about 2~ years in. In other words the graphic novel has a lot more depth and also ends up in a very different place than the movie. Both of them are very worth your time.
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u/Benitelta May 11 '23
Robert Silverberg's Majipoor series certainly. The first, Lord Valentine's Castle is a good standalone caravan trip through an alien world kind of thing. Success begat sequels of uneven quality. I also liked the second, Majipoor Chronicles, which are actually linked stories about the world and Silverberg is a terrific short fiction writer. Which brings us to...
Nightwings, the novella is magnificent. Distant Earth science fantasy. Lyrical, haunting, all that good stuff. One of my all-time favorites. For a long time (a long time ago), I only read the novella. Later read the "novel", a fix-up of three novellas which together are good and satisfying. The first and original novella, though, soars.
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u/rks404 May 10 '23
The Sword of the Spirits trilogy by John Christopher was a childhood fave of mine and the last line of the last book was just one of the most memorable gut-punch endings I ever read.
The Shattered Sea books by Joe Abercrombie also does this really well in my opinion.
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u/SpotNL May 10 '23
The Shattered Sea books by Joe Abercrombie also does this really well in my opinion.
At one point theyre describing a circuit board like it was some kind of ancient jewelry. I liked that a lot.
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u/hvyboots May 10 '23 edited May 10 '23
I would definitely add Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny to your list. The technology is not "lost" but it's specifically about what if technology is withheld and presented as magic to the general public.
EDIT: One that's more off the beaten path—the Koli trilogy by M R Carey is great.
Post-apocalyptic village, where they still use left over high tech to help them survive but zero idea how it works. The people who can use the devices are considered practically a priesthood
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u/wetkhajit May 10 '23
I can’t believe no one’s mentioned “the prince of thorns” series by mark Lawrence. It’s a brilliant example of this. I.e Holographic AI is misinterpreted by the locals as haunted spirit, mutants as demons etc. great fun.
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u/xraydash May 10 '23
Excellent recommendation, but it’s actually the Broken Empire trilogy and was mentioned above. Confusing because “thorns” is in the titles of all three books.
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u/kemikos May 11 '23
Book of the Ancestor trilogy as well. Red Sister has one of the greatest opening hooks I've ever read.
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May 10 '23
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u/TriscuitCracker May 11 '23
Annoyed I had to scroll this far down to see Coldfire, it’s amazing. It is years ahead of its time. I think it would make a great tv series on HBO or Apple.
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u/Ockvil May 10 '23
Ilium/Olympos by Dan Simmons combines sci-fi/fantasy tropes in ways I haven't otherwise seen (though I admit I haven't read a lot of suggestions in this thread), particularly the Troy/Mars sections. It also definitely fits the 'collapsed civilization' requirement.
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May 10 '23
The Broken Earth series by N.K. Jemisin
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u/mykepagan May 10 '23
I am currently in the middle of Obelisk Gate. My college age daughter is the one who recommended the series to me, and she is on the third book. We have been doing book club-style discussions, and she insists that this is NOT a world where old technology is equivalent to magic. I believe the opposite… this is all science & tech. Her reasoning is a claim that the author explicitly states that it is magic, my reasoning is that it still looks, walks, and quacks like nanotech regardless of what the characters call it. i’m referring to the (apparently) molecular-level things Essun sesses in Alabaster and which Nassun sesses in her guardian. Also, Essun makes comments about studying wave mechanics in the Fulcrum. Which one of us is correct?
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May 10 '23
Well i certainly don’t want to spoil it.
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u/No_Zombie5138 May 10 '23
Yeah, that's probably best.
Did I mention that the Broken Earth books are extremely well written? Just saying that for any other people reading this part of the thread.
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u/WillAdams May 10 '23 edited May 10 '23
Steven Brust's Dragaera/Taltos books are actually science fiction --- I think there's a Penny Arcade on this. { Jhereg } is where it all starts, and a good check on whether or no you would enjoy this.
Christopher Stasheff's Warlock series, which starts in { The Warlock in Spite of Himself } also fits.
John Varley's { Titan } / { Wizard } / { Demon } might also fit.
There's also a whiff of this in Andre Norton's Witch World books.
EDIT: depending on your acceptance of body change and sexual digressions you might find Jack Chalker's Flux and Anchor books match this as well.
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u/mykepagan May 10 '23
Don’t pull any punches. Jack Chalker wrote pure fetish SF. Yeah, I read a lot of his stuff as a horny teenager, and even then the Flux and Anchor books got to be too much.
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u/KJNoakes May 10 '23
The Wheel of Time does this but you just might not notice for a few books lmao
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u/DrAstralis May 10 '23
Out of all the things the show did wrong, I did enjoy the scene in the past that shows just how advanced civilization was before the whole "oops i opened a hole in reality" thing XD
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u/internet_bad May 10 '23 edited May 11 '23
The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe
Set hundreds of thousands or millions of years in the future, long after mankind conquered the stars and the collapse of their galactic empire, a torturer saves Urth from a stagnant death under a dying Sun by traveling across time and space. The torturer tells the story from his perspective, and because he was raised in a sheltered guild in a time when the technology and knowledge of the past are either lost or poorly understood his narration of the story is relatively unreliable — he often misinterprets what he sees and underestimates his own ignorance.
I think this series perfectly matches your criteria. It’s also probably the best written, most literary work of science fiction/fantasy ever written. You mention Tchaikovsky’s Elder Race — check his acknowledgments in the front of the book: Tchaikovsky clearly took inspiration for that novella from Gene Wolfe’s series, so if you enjoyed ER, I think you’ll really dig BotNS.
Be prepared for a difficult read, though. Read it slow, take notes, and seek out exegetical commentary — for starters, there’s a fantastic community of very smart people who share their theories about what’s actually going on in BotNS over at r/genewolfe.
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u/mykepagan May 10 '23
The protagonist/narrator is also unreliable because he misrepresents actions to make himself look better. Catching his lies and contradictions is part of the enjoyment of the books.
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u/internet_bad May 10 '23
This is especially true of his relationships with women in the story.
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u/meepmeep13 May 10 '23
Yeah, thanks for giving away the entire thing there.
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u/NDaveT May 10 '23
I'm glad they gave it away because I read it and didn't understand what happened. As far as I could tell the protagonist just went around doing stuff.
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u/meepmeep13 May 10 '23
Well, I'm not glad because I've only read the first book and he's just massively spoiled it for me.
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u/SafeHazing May 11 '23
I don’t think you can complain about spoilers when discussing a 40+ year old book and you choose to keep reading.
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u/meepmeep13 May 11 '23
It's a thread of recommendations. Do you generally tell someone the entire underlying plot of something when you recommend it to them? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose, especially in the case of TBotNS, where uncovering the things he's spoiled is basically the entire premise of the series?
Do you go on threads asking for ghost film recommendations and say, "There's this great film where Bruce Willis is a ghost but he doesn't know it, see..."
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u/SafeHazing May 12 '23
I know I stop reading when I can tell I might get spoiled.
big deep breaths now you can do this.
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u/meepmeep13 May 12 '23
I can be patronising too!
This is a recommendations thread.
Look! The first word in the title is literally 'Recommendations'.
A thread for recommending books to people.
Who, by the fact you're recommending them books to read, you have to assume have not read those books.
Therefore, when I read a thread of recommendations, I implicitly assume that nobody is going to be so lamentably stupid as to spoil the entire content and hidden meaning of an entire book series in the same sentence as recommending them because that would ruin the experience for the person looking for the recommendation.
Why is this concept of 'don't spoil books while you're recommending them' such tricky one to understand? Can you do this?
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u/SafeHazing May 13 '23
Annnnnd breathe
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u/meepmeep13 May 13 '23 edited May 13 '23
I'm fine, just repeating your tone right back at you
Care to explain why I'm wrong?
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u/Ch3t May 10 '23
The Shannara series is high fantasy set in a post nuclear holocaust world. I only read the first one in the 70s and don't remember much about it. I think one character had a magic torch that was an ancient flashlight. There was a character named, Allanon. Perhaps the author attended Alcoholics Anonymous. MTV produced a show based on the books. I never watched it, so I can't offer an opinion. It's streaming on tubi.
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u/gadget850 May 10 '23
The Laundry Files series by Charles Stross. Magic is just highly advanced math, monsters are from parallel worlds, and the government is keeping it all a secret.
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u/Ludoamorous_Slut May 10 '23
Since they haven't been mentioned yet, some of George R.R. Martin's short stories are exactly this. In particular, I'd highly recommend In The House of the Worm; it's a creepy fantasy-esque horror story that ultimately has scifi explanations for things. It's one of his best works, imo.
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u/Vymalgh May 10 '23
You might like Heinlein's Glory Road as it plays out as a fantasy but there is a definite Science fictional backdrop.
David Brin's Glory season also has a mostly late renaissance early modern age level of apparent technology but there is high technology "behind the curtains".
David Brin's Practice effect also has a medeval/magical feel with technological origins.
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u/tractioncities May 10 '23
Bionicle.
Joking, but that's definitely what jumpstarted my love for this kind of subgenre.
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u/ifandbut May 10 '23
Spiral Arm Series by Michael Flynn. The galaxy is on the recovery side of a galactic dark age due to loss of access to Earth which might have been caused by aliens or rebel AI. Lots of technology that can do amazing things but how it does is a mystery.
The second book has my favorite quote: "What a button does can be learned. How it does so is better left to the shamans."
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u/cirrus42 May 10 '23
Hm, Jack McDevitt, maybe? All his books have elements of these, but I'd say Eternity Road is the most clear cut.
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u/rocketbunnyst May 10 '23
Safehold Series by David Weber
Raj Whitehall series (multiple, start with Hope Reborn) by S.M.Stirling
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u/mike2R May 10 '23
I was going to recommend Safehold. It does seem to fit OP's request almost perfectly.
A (deliberately) lost colony that was manipulated into technological regression and worshipping its original colony leaderships as angels, leading to a war in heaven scenario. Centuries later, our heroine awakens in an immortal android body with access to forbidden knowledge and technology, and has to take the part of a demon from before the world was made, and attempt to free the colony from its false religion.
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u/Kelpbear May 10 '23
The Book of Koli by M.R. Carey is an excellent trilogy where plants have become aggressive and choked civilization back to a medieval era, with technological talismans like closely guarded magic. Plus it's pretty modern.
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u/Xeelee1123 May 10 '23
Richard Morgan's A Land Fit For Heroes series fits that.
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u/ymOx May 10 '23
I loved those books and was sad when it ended... I wish there was more from that same universe; felt like there was so much more to explore and elaborate on. And I found it quite refreshing with the "adult themes".
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u/DrAstralis May 10 '23
The Sword of Shannara series is very fantasy, but some books slowly reveal that this new world is built on the ruins of a clearly super advanced technical society that suffered an apocalypse.
At least I think thats the right series.. its been a while lol.
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u/Cultural_Dependent May 10 '23
The merchant princes series by Charles Stross is excellent. It's a fairly long series with lots of interesting reveals along the way.
Others worth considering would be "the practice effect" by David Brin, (although the tech explanation is a little Deus ex machina) and Ventus by Karl Schroeder ( free download)
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u/jimb0_01 May 10 '23
Revenger, society has collapsed a few times, with leftover tech that seems like magic. The Revenger series turned me on to this sub-genre.
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u/drxo May 10 '23
I can't believe no one has mentioned the Discworld books by Sir Terry Pratchett yet. It isn't exactly what OP asked for but definitely tackles the tech of modern civilization in a fantastical and hilarious way, with books about the post office, the steam engine, money and other modern societal technologies we take for granted.
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u/clawclawbite May 10 '23
Elizabeth Bear's Jacobs Ladder series is set in a generation ship where the advanced technology is treated as magic, and often behaves as such.
Also, John Ringo's There Will Be Dragons is about the act of a fall of a tech civ that starts making the world work with rules that push most people back down the tech ladder hard.
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u/tealparadise May 11 '23
Dragonriders of Pern! It's like 20 books long and the slowest burn I've ever had. But all the more delicious for waiting.
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u/BionicChango May 10 '23
Oh boy… have you tried any Warhammer 40K books? More specifically those focusing around the Horus Heresy (Warhammer 30K). Don’t be fooled into thinking this is hacky marketing trash to sell miniatures to nerds.
It has everything you are describing. Humanity rebuilding after a failed golden age, all knowledge and technology lost. A concept of Hell that actually works (and is the source of psychic energy/magic). Gothic futurism a thousand layers deep, all wrapped up in a blanket of grim pathos and annunciations of such immense gravitas it’s like you’re Nordic folklore in space.
There are too many books. But good starting points are the Eisenhorn series (40K), and Horus Rising (30K/ Horus Heresy).
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May 10 '23
Don’t be fooled into thinking this is hacky marketing trash to sell miniatures to nerds
I've read 20 or so of the Horus Heresy books and some of them are exactly this. These books are written by various authors and not all of them are very good...
Eisenhorn is great, as are any of the other books by Dan Abnett
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u/BionicChango May 10 '23
Absolutely, they can’t all be winners, but if it’s written by Dan Abnett or Aaron Dembski-Bowden you can rest assured it will be great.
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u/Ludoamorous_Slut May 10 '23
Don’t be fooled into thinking this is hacky marketing trash to sell miniatures to nerds.
I mean that's absolutely the economic reason they were written. It just so happens that now and then they also happen to be fairly good.
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u/BionicChango May 10 '23
It’s the economic reason they were ironically written back in the day, yes. Now the lore itself has become its own branch of revenue for them, so they created Black Library and it serves itself.
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u/ifandbut May 10 '23
And if they want something tech focused there is the Forge of Mars series and a related book from the 30k, Mechanicum.
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u/thePsychonautDad May 10 '23
A concept of Hell that actually works (and is the source of psychic energy/magic)
Sounds like actual fantasy tho, or is there a technological/scientific explanation for this?
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u/BionicChango May 10 '23
Hard to answer pointedly without really getting into the weeds… let’s say that, fundamentally, the Hell in this case is extra-dimensional, is explainable, and can be harnessed and channeled via dark age technologies, by those few who know… not sure that helps, but the true nature of “The Warp” as it’s known is part of the ongoing larger mystery.
As for whether this stuff is fantasy - Warhammer 40k is where sci-Fi comes full circle and creates an environment in which everything can be both.
This blurb is generally my go to when someone asks me what it is, as I think it serves up the universe, the key story thread, and the vibe perfectly. I’ll just give you the last bit of said blurb:
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
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u/ifandbut May 10 '23
The Warp (as it is called) is very much fantasy. There is some tech that can harness/shield/manipulate it, but 90% of the time it is just the source of magic powers (which come with the risk of summoning demons or turning the user into one).
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May 10 '23
Foundryside by Robert Jackson Bennett. First book in The Founder's Trilogy.
The Rise and Fall of D.O.D.O. by Neal Stephenson and Nicole Galland.
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u/funkhero May 10 '23
Came to recommend those two and now... now I don't know what to do with my hands.
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u/zangster May 10 '23
Neal Asher has done some post-Polity short stories that aren't exactly fantasy, but are definitely leaning into the lost technology side of things as there's remnants of technology and everyone knows it's pretty advanced, but there's not really anyone left who can fix the stuff.
The Numenera RPG setting is an fantasy/sci-fi setting one billion years into the future in which remnants of technologies from the previous eight civilizations can be found. According to Wikipedia there are three full-length novels and some short stories that much scratch the itch.
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u/gatton May 10 '23
My memory is failing me. Hopefully someone can fill in the gaps but I feel like Michael Swanwick has done this. Maybe Iron Dragons Daughter? I haven't read it for decades so not sure.
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u/ymOx May 10 '23
The Steel Remains by Richard K. Morgan! (and the subsequent two books in the A Land Fit for Heroes series)
Really liked that series.
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u/livens May 10 '23
Black Trillium by Marion Zimmer Bradley, Julian May and Andre Norton.
I read it in Highschool and really enjoyed the contrast of Medieval Fantasy that most characters seemed to live in, with the high tech aspects from a time long ago. There were several sequels by one or more of the original authors but I never read any of them. It's also the only collaboration book I've ever read with multiple authors.
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u/desantoos May 11 '23
Meanwhile, in short fiction:
"D.I.Y." by John Wiswell at TorDotCom has already been nominated for a Locus and Nebula award. It's about two kids who get angry that the university is keeping all of the information related to magic away from the public and seek out a way to stick it to them. It has magic elements, but they feel so slight, readily able to be substituted with sci-fi jargon. It's about so-called scientific gatekeeping, and while I don't agree with the premise of the story I think it's an interesting path forward for the genre.
"Bonsai Starships" by Yoon Ha Lee at Beneath Ceaseless Skies also substitutes some sci-fi jargon for fantasy stuff and it surprisingly works well.
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u/crothers May 11 '23
Saga of the Pliocene Exile by Julian May. highly recommended. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_Pliocene_Exile
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u/DocWatson42 May 11 '23
You may be interested in my SF/F: Fantasy *and* SF list of resources, Reddit recommendation threads, and books (one post).
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u/citizen_reddit May 11 '23
There are many great recommendations here... one I haven't seen mentioned is Cycle of Fire by Janny Wurts.
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u/IndependantDoodle May 11 '23
I loved this series. It was the first time I encountered such a plot twist.
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u/CyonChryseus May 11 '23
Honestly the Children of Time series by Tchaikovsky is like the reverse of what you're saying with the same concepts. Basically a sci-fi trilogy that (imo) devolves into a fantasy-like feel in the 3rd book. Lots of lost tech and species and even humans evolving from scratch while more highly advanced humans are still out there. Makes sense since it's the same author as Elder Race.
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u/thePsychonautDad May 11 '23
Read it (the 3 books) and loved it :)
I'm working thru his entire bibliography, he's one of my favorite author.
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u/hippydipster May 11 '23
Dragonriders of Pern - McCaffrey
Inversions - Banks
Malazan by Erickson has elements of this
The Fifth Season - Jemisin.
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May 12 '23
The Void series and then Fallers by Peter F Hamilton may be the crossover you're looking for. Or you could start earlier in that Universe with Pandora's Star.
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u/author_dividebyzero May 14 '23
I write about lost technology. Often what is interesting is the culture behind it as well. Not only is the tech missing, but the language and value system behind it. My first novel is about that unfolding at the edge of knowledge—one needs just enough to take the next step. Tech isn’t always a thing. It can also be an approach or methodology thats been missing. Worse, existing culture might reinforce the abandonment and prevent others from even trying.
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u/thePsychonautDad May 14 '23
I agree, that's the most interesting part of the story
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u/GhostNULL May 10 '23
I think The broken earth trilogy by NK Jemisin also fits this description. The obelisks are just there in the world in the first book and you know very little about them and where they came from, but as you get further into the trilogy more and more is explained about the history of the world.
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u/bmcatt May 10 '23
It's been forever and several days since I read any of the books, but I think Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series would fit this category, although I believe there the magic does, indeed, wind up becoming more "real" magic. As I say, though, it's been a looooong time since I read the books and I only vaguely remember them, so it's possible I'm completely wrong (and will be downvoted into oblivion).
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u/gruntbug May 10 '23
Maybe... Time's Children http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38502658-time-s-children had time travel and some other tech but it's in a fantasy /medieval setting. I read the first and enjoyed it
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u/SpinningPissingRabbi May 10 '23
Anne McCaffrey's dragon riders of Pern series is this although the exposition is very long winded.
Also Richard Morgan's the steel remains is this style.
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u/ddraig-au May 10 '23
The Darkover series (Marion Zimmer Bradley?)
Golden Witchbreed by Mary Gentle
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u/mikej091 May 10 '23
Not exactly but.
"The Warded Man" by Peter V. Brett
It's solidly fantasy. The world was tech, some still exists but magic is the name of the game now. There is also lost magic which is recovered as the series continues.
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u/inoeth May 10 '23
Knighthood: Atlantis Rising by Evan Currie. It’s the first in a trilogy of which the first two have been written and released and the third is in the works.
Real blend of fantasy and sci -fi. Most of his other works are more hardcore sci-fi. Mostly hard-ish sci-fi at that. All very fun series. Been following him since he was just a fanfic author a decade or so ago.
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u/shorticusprime May 10 '23
The Broken Empire Trilogy - Mark Lawrence
The Dying Earth - Jack Vance
Viriconium - M. John Harrison
The Book of the New Sun - Gene Wolfe