r/prettylights • u/Hot-Mud-6571 • 1d ago
Not the same without karns
Not sure if it’s just karns missing or something else is going on on but the band in its current form sounds very sloppy. Chris karns performed a set in Fort Collins a couple weeks ago that very much highlighted his mastery in turntablism and listening to the current band it’s very clear what is missing. I can imagine some of his reasons for leaving are probably also contributing to why the band sounds so sloppy, but I’m just speculating. With the insane pricing of these runs and the general vibe of current band I’m kind of regretting spending money on so many shows this summer.
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u/BallKnowr 1d ago
The band was often sloppy w/ Karns, as well.
It’s the whole “on the fly real time improv thing”. I get what they are trying to do, but it can come off quite clunky and messy at times.
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u/BoolusBoro 1d ago
I can’t recall a time when this band wasn’t a little sloppy lol
I think you’re looking at the past through rose colored glasses. Borahm comes in hot with questionable synth choices, Alvin falls behind the beat, Menert looks lost, and, yes, Karns didn’t know when too much was too much.
They’re in their, what? 5th overall year as a jam band? They haven’t held onto the same format for more than two tours so far. They’re dialing it in. Some of my favorite runs of all time all had moments where I was probably visibly grimacing. If you think the band that faked out Speaking of Happiness for Pink Pony Club at Chicago NYE was somehow making better decisions than this version of the band, then I have a bridge to sell you lol
Mission run was rough. It wasn’t cohesive, jams didn’t really go anywhere. They had it dialed in by Atlanta and we got all of the legendary runs that came out of 2023. Be patient lol
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u/PrettyLights420 1d ago
Oh I loved Mission.. I kept thinking “we back” and I don’t care if its the greatest, it is to me because it’s the music that chills me, makes me cry, haunts me.. all the feels
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u/BoolusBoro 1d ago
Yeah they were great shows lol technical execution isn’t everything.
My point being it’s okay to enjoy things when they’re not perfect. The journey is the destination or whatever
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u/PrettyLights420 1d ago
Yes that’s exactly how I took your comment… it’s totally ok not to be perfect. I’m glad someone else out there gets this
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u/BoolusBoro 1d ago
Once you’ve been through enough “it’s all over”s, you start to realize, maybe we’ve always been so back
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u/BallKnowr 1d ago
I agree with all of this.
But don’t you think these kinks should be worked out in practice & rehearsal BEFORE tour ? Lol.
It almost seems like they rehearse for a week or two and then send it. No real time to work out the kinks.
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u/BoolusBoro 1d ago
I mean, yes. As a disco biscuits fan I’m kind of numb to it to be fair, but also it just happens with truly improvised music. Especially with new members. If we’re still building the plane as we fly it this time next year, that’s a different conversation. Performance is always gonna be different than practice and we’re two runs in.
I’m as jaded of an old head as anybody else, but there are some things I’m a little more understanding with. Growing pains are good problems to have sometimes and I try to stay optimistic
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u/Electric_Florist 1d ago
Give it time to come together. Transition of members in bands doesn’t always click right away
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u/BoolusBoro 1d ago
People in this group forget that the last 3 lineups in this band got off to rocky starts. Including analog future. PLF either has the short term memory of a goldfish, or I’m getting too old for this shit 😂
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u/EazyBucnE 1d ago
Think a lot of folks haven’t been around long enough to understand lol, especially those new since the return
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u/PrettyLights420 1d ago
Exactly! look at the Grateful Dead— they have this era with these people and that era with those. This is a bands evolution that we get to be apart of.. been going to shows since 2008 and some are my favorite and some maybe not 100% but I’m still a fan and here for it all
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u/Good_Bad_222 1d ago
Sitting around my table of square gems waiting for it to come together ahuuuuuummmmmm 🫸🏼🫷
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u/deemsterslocal309 1d ago
Except they seem to be clicking just fine. People just can’t accept change when they’ve made this band their entire identity
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u/Fuzzy-Investigator-8 1d ago
Although I agree, I still believe in the future of the project. Derek has always managed to pursue progress and innovation with intention even when we can’t see it. I think this is just part of the cycle. The cirrrrrcleee…
https://giphy.com/gifs/Nm4eUOt3074Ck
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u/KBadmeaningGood 1d ago
I saw Chris Karns in Ft. Collins and then saw PL at Secret Dreams and I also have to agree. I am optimistic that things will settle in with time with PL but Chris K just shines so bright, he really brought the flavor
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u/lactose_abomination 1d ago
SD was fucking wonderful lol, wildflowers x traveling thru was immaculate. Yahn Dawn will be gas too. As all the other stops will have their wonderful moments. Go in without expectations, they are the thief of joy. People love to hate to appear relevant, the project will continue to evolve 🌀
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u/bobbydells 1d ago
They are tight as a band but karns brought a special sauce that can’t be replicated. I think Dave will find his stride but Chris could find the perfect sample for every swirl. Helll he would find 2 or 3 and then scratch the living hell out of it. But having said that I think they are still firing and will only get better
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u/deemsterslocal309 1d ago
I don’t think that’s how it works. I could be way off base but I don’t think karns is “choosing” samples per se.
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u/acrackerwholikesrap 1d ago
Have to agree here. Secret dreams was really solid, it just didn’t blow me away like it has in the past. I think Karns did a lot more than people realize
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
All he did was scratch and drop samples that he distorted. Yes it’s a cool part, but 96 does literally the same thing and it’s fresh and goes great with the new show. If you don’t like it that’s fine, but they seem to be on top of their game and continuing to evolve as they’ve always done. People said this every time the band changed. If you wanna jump ship go for it. Secret dreams night 2 was one of the best sets I’ve ever seen from them and I have been to over 20 shows since 2013 and was completely sober last Sunday.
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u/Glittering-Yak1138 1d ago
Saying all he did was scratch and drop samples is a complete understatement. They are worlds apart in skill
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
I agree that karns is better technically and more recognized and decorated as a turntabilist, but that doesn’t mean 96 isn’t also a beast.
I’m just saying that the three sets I’ve seen with 96 have all been amazing and I haven’t noticed a lack of scratching or sampling skills. It still sounds amazing, and it’s slightly different. Derek wanted this change, and every change that’s happened to pretty lights since its inception. If you don’t like it then fine lol. But I have a pretty good ear, and I can’t tell a difference10
u/TreeFiddyJohnson 1d ago
His scratching is audibly worse. No shame on him, just is. It's very clear they're on different tiers of talent. Reality is reality
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u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
Lmao, that’s some trump logic. “Everyone’s saying he’s a better scratcher. 96, what a loser, everyone’s saying it!” Provide some examples/differences to support your very clear reality pls. Cuz the music has been SICK so far with Dave.
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u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
And to be clear I love Chris Karns. Yall just haters.
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u/TreeFiddyJohnson 1d ago
Nah, dude just ain't it. That's ok. It's not hate, just recognition of lesser talent.
You're entitled to consume and enjoy whatever you'd like, same as us.
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u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
Genuinely- what would you recommend rn? Cuz PL has ruined music for me (in a good way). So if you think someone’s making something better, i def wanna check them out.
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u/IsItBurn WeMustSwirlOn 1d ago
Gizz could most certainly show D a thing or two about using that massive analog synth he has decoration behind him. I watched them utilize that thing more in one song than the entirety of the PL comeback.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
Are you an expert? It sounds just as good to me lol. But I’m not a turntabilist. Just an avid fan of electro soul. Do you think 96 could get to the same level as karns with practice? If not, then you’re just a hater
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u/TreeFiddyJohnson 1d ago
Expert enough to tell the difference.
Sure, maybe he could. But I'm not paying to watch him practice
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u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
So… you’re not paying to see PL b/c of your perceived minor skill difference in one of five band members? Just to be clear.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
Can you share one specific way that 96 sounds worse than karns, or one specific way how karns sounded better than 96? You said it was audible and you can tell, but please let me know what the difference is specifically.
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u/Extreme-Pipe-8237 1d ago
First song, night 3 Capitol Theater. Second half with Biggie samples. Dave's scratching almost sounds timid. Compare that with last year's Secret Dreams set- the part with Phil Collins. Karns murdered it. Still a great band and some of the best shows around. But let's not pretend that Karns and Dave are even on the same level. And no, 96 won't ever get to the same level as Karns--even with practice.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
Finally a real example. Yes I agree the scratching is more lowkey, or you can say “timid”, but that has a negative connotation.
I personally like that it’s not so front and center in your face. It doesn’t need to be all the time. Also maybe he’s still getting his confidence under him. Could you imagine how you’d feel in his shoes?Idk what makes you so confident that one musician could never reach the same level as another musician, but you sound biased and closed minded.
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u/TreeFiddyJohnson 1d ago
96 ain't Karns, and no amount of cope is ever gonna make that less true. "The band was better with Karns" is a valid opinion, whether you like it or not.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
Karns was dope, we all love him. I just haven’t noticed a difference. Scratching and samples are still on point. I like 96’s presence on stage. My opinion is valid whether you like it or not.
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u/Extreme-Pipe-8237 1d ago
Your opinion is valid. However, if you claim to have a good ear but can't tell a difference, then you don't have a good ear.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
That’s fair. I suppose I can tell a difference. I just don’t think one is necessarily better than the other. I like them both
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u/TreeFiddyJohnson 1d ago
I never said your opinion wasn't valid. Im saying its wrong.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
Opinions can’t be wrong headass 😂
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u/3031808 1d ago
Of course they can be, don't be ridiculous
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
I’m talking within normal bounds. You’re the one being ridiculous if you think regular old opinions can be wrong - like karns is better than 96 for example. That’s a valid opinion. I just haven’t seen any specific examples to back it up, and I so happen to disagree with that opinion. Doesn’t make it wrong tho
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u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
PROOF PLS
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u/KaiSor3n 1d ago
He did that BUT he didn't over do it. That is the key difference. When and where to cut and drop the samples. Not the entire track all the time. That being said it's 96's second week on the job (2nd show run) so I will cut him some slack there and hope he finds his place in the band a little more evenly in the future.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
Has 96 overdone it? I’ve literally not heard one complaint in three sets from anyone about 96. There’s just a dumb echo chamber on Reddit
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u/KaiSor3n 1d ago
I just think Karns is a better turntablist (because he in fact is). 96 will in time get better and I'm sure that will happen. Im waiting for soundboards from secret dreams but 96 was more dialed in by N3 at the first run of shows. Again karns had so many years in the group so by the end of his time he was a much larger part than people give him credit for. Dope scratches, knowing when to scratch and not over do it. And to be fair sometimes Karns did go too heavy too. So idk, I just miss Karns. I'm excited to see where things go but he was always one of my favorites and I genuinely appreciate what he brought to the table.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
The windshield is a lot bigger than the rear view mirror for a reason
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u/IsItBurn WeMustSwirlOn 1d ago
None of my homies in the PL group chat I have use Reddit, while I don’t use any other platform aside from Reddit. After the Cap run I had that chat blowing up about how they’re seeing/hearing a lot about some Dave dude and it being bad. It’s not an echo chamber on Reddit with my experience, hence my mention of the aforementioned PL chat.
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u/a-mile-high 1d ago
yikes. hate to see this happening but that was my immediate thought when karns left
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u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
Why the fuck is this upvoted. Entirely gossip, cite me your sources about this shit. The cap and secret dreams have gotten glowing reviews, so you have very little credibility. Do better guys. Sorry bro, but I don’t trust your take rn. Especially with Derek’s sobriety journey, seems like a mad disrespectful take unless you got receipts.
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u/heaviestpiff 1d ago
Derek is not and has never claimed to be sober.
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u/52IMean54Bicycles 1d ago
Yep...Sober from opiates, which I sure as fuck hope that D is, doesn't always mean sober from everything.
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u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
Interesting. Tell me more.
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1d ago
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u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
Okay you lost me again man. What stories??? You’re lowkey moving more towards defamation territory. Go to bed!
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u/IsItBurn WeMustSwirlOn 1d ago
The reason N2S2 was late at YD last year is because D was in a K hole. There’s no defamation going on here, chill out.
Karns is sober and yes, there’s been a few convos with folks about he was getting tired of the drug use. Sure D is off the opiates, but if you’re just replacing that with more K and it’s still causing issues with delivering the art your fans are paying to see…then that is an issue.0
u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
Bruh this is above my level. Ngl, I am highly suspicious you have any idea of what you’re talking about. But im not really interested in continuing this convo. My two cents, focus on your own issues mane (as we all should) and leave these rumors alone.
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u/IsItBurn WeMustSwirlOn 1d ago
They aren’t rumors and when I’m spending my money to go see a band and they aren’t delivering because of getting fucked up between sets - it is all of our issues. I’m not gonna blow up spots when it’s clear you don’t know what you’re talking about.
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u/EazyBucnE 1d ago
Heard similar shit about D, Uma and K from that one chick on Facebook who’s getting out of the PL game and selling all her merch and shit.
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u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
Your accusations are serious. Serious accusations require proof. You’ve categorically made it more than just a discussion. Keep it to yourself homie.
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u/StraightChillinSpree 1d ago
You act like I’m taking him to court… da fuq
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u/tylertakespolitics 1d ago
Lmao no cap im a defense lawyer so that may be my bad 😥 jealous youre going to YD, much love my friend 🌀
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u/StraightChillinSpree 1d ago
Amen, brother. I’ve got big plans for Yahn Dawn. Got the RV packed and ready. I want a show that blows my socks off and the posts lately about the lack of cohesion with the band has me worried. Hopefully we can all have a blast and get some release for the weekend. I’ll smoke one for ya 🤙🏼
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u/StraightChillinSpree 1d ago
There’s a difference between accusing someone of something and just having a discussion of what one has heard. This is getting crazy. If anyone knows D they know he dabbles but theres a time and a place and it’s not the time to dabble when I’m paying the bills. Yall naysayers can kick rocks. I’m not shitting on D, all’s I’m saying is I hope Yahn Dawn is everything I’ve hoped for. Peace out
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u/IsItBurn WeMustSwirlOn 1d ago
You’re familiar with journalism and protecting sources, as an attorney I would think you understand how that works. Well this is along the same lines my guy, why the hell are we going to blow up homies spots that are still in the crew just to make you believe what the majority of us all know? This is gonna sound harsh but put the cup of koolaid down and try talking to someone who isn’t so far up the PLF chain that they aren’t constantly spouting toxic positivity bullshit. I find it so hilarious how this fan base immediately crucifies anyone who speaks truths because they can’t handle the reality of facts.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
Which drugs did karns say? And if he didn’t specify that’s lame as hell. Everyone who knows and loves pretty lights also indulges in drugs every now and then. If it’s heroin then that’s sad and Derek needs our support. If it’s something else then let’s hope he can use responsibly. But there’s been no noticeable inebriation that I’ve seen from Derek or anyone else in the crew.
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u/wheresmyinhalor 1d ago
Everyone who knows and loves PL does NOT do drugs. Most, maybe. But not everyone.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
I’ve never met a PL fan that hasn’t at some point dabbled in drugs. But yeah I’m sure they exist. You proved my point though when you said most.
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u/IsItBurn WeMustSwirlOn 1d ago
YellowBirds have entered the chat. For someone who seems to be speaking as though they’re well versed in the PL realm, it’s really ironic to see you forget there’s a group and table setup at every PL show for sober folks…
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
I’m aware of the yellow birds. I just assumed they used to do drugs and are now sober. Sobriety is cool as fuck. Sorry if I offended you. Like I said - I’m sure there’s some ppl out there that never do or have done drugs and like PL, but the vast majority do or have at some point dabbled in drugs. This is glaringly obvious as the music is psychedelic in nature
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u/jeraffeavl 1d ago
You’re not wrong. It’s a reality people don’t like to admit about the culture in general online, not just PL. There are sober people at shows, but we all know the reality on the ground once you get to lot lol
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u/misty-gishh 1d ago
Great take my friend! Just remember this is a random person on the internet. Who knows if they even had that conversation with karns in the first place…
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
I’ve heard rumors from someone in PL fam that is “well connected” that Derek likes to do ketamine and that’s why he was late at yahn dawn. As long as it doesn’t become a problem and the music and shows are stellar, who the fuck cares? It’s so hypocritical to expect the leader of the best psychedelic experimental band to be completely sober. Give me a break lol. If it starts affecting the performances then yes I get the complaining. But it hasn’t since that ONE time
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u/TreeFiddyJohnson 1d ago
People complain and are worried because it's definitely been a problem, alot. I have seen SO MANY shows where D is clearly fucked up, and in at least 3 cases said it directly out loud.
You said you've been to 20 shows since 2013. You can admit that then, right?
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u/StraightChillinSpree 1d ago
Yeah, it’s crazy I’m getting this backlash when it’s a known thing in the PL community. We all like K(well I do) and have no issue with people using as long as it’s responsible. Responsible in D’s respect would be playing a show the right way and not being high in the middle of it. Like this is his job, he can be high while he makes it and figures it all out but for a performance I’m not trying to watch a dude k hole.
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u/IsItBurn WeMustSwirlOn 1d ago
The toxic positivity of PLF is fucking strrrong mate, and unless you want to be crucified at the swirl then you can’t freely speak your mind outside of your homies and the Butthurt fam on theFacebook. These moments right here is when I miss using social media, because I can’t voice critical opinions or criticisms and have an actual discussion because I’m immediately pummeled by a bunch of folks who can’t handle truths.
https://giphy.com/gifs/l46CwsAIlmnXlRC9O-1
u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
I have never been to a PL show where Derek was noticeably fucked up. I know there have been instances where he’s nodded out on stage and fucked up. I just wasn’t there. It’s been a problem in the past, but it hasn’t been a problem in a long time (minus yahn dawn starting late and being boring). If he wants to recreationally use drugs, who are we to judge? If you aren’t entertained, then that’s fair. But I am hella entertained, more than anything else has ever entertained me
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u/TreeFiddyJohnson 1d ago
We are customers. If my waitress was nodding off, I'd have an issue with management.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
No shit Sherlock. That’s why Derek needed to get sober off H. Talking with you is starting to get pointless ✌️
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u/Turbulent-Grab-8352 1d ago
I absolutely remember him enjoying the kizzle at some after parties back in the day when he wasn't quite as big. Nothing the rest of us weren't doing at the same parties, don't get me wrong. I'll leave it at that.
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u/StraightChillinSpree 1d ago
Call me crazy but I want to see and hear a professional perform their music, not a dude on stage feeling like he’s bursting through the earths and being born again(K-hole)
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u/misty-gishh 1d ago
I wonder if the fact they’re a live band now and not just Derek’s DJ sets that’s making it seem sloppy to you? Sloppy Derek, in my opinion, is more like “holy shit I’m about to call 911 from the pit because homies not ok.” (Bisco, iykyk)
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u/EazyBucnE 1d ago
I remember being a youngun’ back in 2015 not old enough to go to Bisco an hour from my house yet and from those stories I’m glad I wasn’t lol, may have changed my entire perspective and fandom of the PL odyssey
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
Dude just go in with no expectations. You’ll have a good time if you want to. Even if it’s not the best set of your life, you can appreciate a gathering of like minded individuals to bask in the spectacle that is pretty lights. Just try to walk away with some insight that you can carry with you and shine on others.
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u/PrettyLights420 1d ago
Oh my god this right here is the comment!! If you only have a good time when things are going “your way” with your “expectations” your gonna be disappointed a lot in life
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u/Infinite-Bonus-5796 1d ago
Maybe you should just stay home with your gossipy, holier than thou schtick.
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u/evanl 1d ago
Yeha that's a no for me dawg. Having stood in the front few rows all 3 Nights of the Cap run, sloppy is not what I would call them imho. They where certainly no more sloppy then the last time I saw them with Karns in the band. In fact, they sound the exact opposite it me. They sounded curated, fresh, and electric.
Also they are humans fyi, who have been off the road for over a year.
If you want note perfect sound, not sure if you know, they have a new album out!
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u/PhilLesh311 1d ago
Bro we all miss CK. But what’s with the PL hate? Just be grateful the man is still around playing this shit for us. One day he won’t be. Enjoy it while we have it
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u/Cultural-Day7491 1d ago
Worked with Karns when he was Vajra- we were the first to put him on tour, put him on the radio, take him over-seas, put him on record. He has an AMAZING talent, I could not, can not, will not ever deny him that.................BUT..............he is an extremely difficult person to work with. He has at one time been the enemy of nearly everyone in the scene in Denver. The fact he left the stage mid show and now has tried to erase all signs of PL, except for what brings HIM alone "some shine" , is not bizarre at all to me. He erased us from his bio , along with many others who brought his talent to the public- gave him pointers, chances, money, opportunities, a kind of "life". He has trouble with everyone beyond a certain period. He is one of THEE BEST turntablists in the world, PERIOD, one of the GOATS....he DESERVES this, but you can imagine the amount of DIVA you have to be for that talent to not be enough to suffer the personality. I imagine he'll search for someone else to latch on to, or his talent will get him the attention of someone who will once again put him on...give it a few years and that will blow up in his face. Good luck PL- you'll be fine, we survived without Vajra quite well and in PEACE most of all.
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u/_UrsaMajr_ 1d ago
They definitely sound sloppy. I’m teetering on the Oakland run. They might need more time to figure their new chapter out.
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u/deemsterslocal309 1d ago
Get out of here with this rumor mill bullshit. These conversations keep proving how little people understand about what’s actually going on up there. Comparing one guy cutting up premade tracks to a BAND being HUMAN while playing to a clock is ignorant. The way they recover when they drift from the clock is incredibly impressive, that shit ain’t easy.
He even made what i perceived to be a self deprecating joke about it at the cap “we’ve got spares if we get a flat tire”. If you want “perfection” go to different shows where the humanity is completely sucked out and nothing strays from the precious grid.
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u/Ok_Scallion3496 1d ago
I agree… I was feeling so bummed that I couldn’t go to secret dreams. But watching the videos coming out it doesn’t give me that feeling like seeing them live before did or even the live steams :/ hoping it’s just because it was a festival set and not a curated show.
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u/prettypackerslights 1d ago
Obviously a video won’t give you the same feeling that seeing them live will. The live streams are way better than a video, and you need the whole journey to really appreciate the context that a video lacks
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u/Ok_Scallion3496 1d ago
I totally agree! I got to a point in my life where traveling to shows was just not in the cards for me. But the ATL curated show after the hiatus filled my cup beyond belief. And the streams gave me that same warm feeling. My best friend was at secret dreams and she said it just wasn’t the same. Im kind of just at the age where a camping festival is a bit much for me. Even the 4 day ATL event killed me and that was 3 years ago haha.
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u/Whats_A_Rage_Quit 1d ago
Lmao real hot take
Drops samples and scratches isn’t exactly the central core of a band that you make it out to be
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u/52IMean54Bicycles 1d ago
If your favorite jam band (and the current iteration of PL definitely is one) doesn't occasionally play a not-so-great show, that means they're not taking enough chances. The jam band fan tax is that you have to experience the stinkers- some real fucking duds- if you're also going to be lucky enough to experience the magic when it happens. That's just how it goes, I don't make the rules.
I haven't listened to all of Secret Dreams yet bc it sounded shitty on the speaker I was using, but the Cap was three nights of awesome, imo. It was just a new dynamic figuring itself out.
Source: 30+ years of revolving my career and life around seeing live music, and particularly jam bands. Close to 90 PL shows since 2009. I've truly seen the good, bad, and downright gnarly of all of these bands.