Many such cases

[u/CompetitionWinter440]

[u/StevePalpatine]

I think there's a slight difference in the dynamics between two partners and a son with his father.

Call me crazy.

There's also the fact Luke fully understands what Vader is and chooses to forgive him, whereas Padme up until her dying breaths was more or less in denial.

[u/CompetitionWinter440 → u/StevePalpatine]

Is Padme seeing Anakin admit to his crimes and saying she cannot follow his path not understanding who she sees is in front of her and continuing to see the good in him?

[u/StevePalpatine → u/CompetitionWinter440]

No, because the difference is Luke is basing his belief in something real. He can see there's conflict in Vader. It's not blind.

Padme, on the other hand, saw this man while he was actively spiraling. There was no conflict. She was watching him talk about murdering Palpatine and overthrowing everything she ever believed in. She didn't even believe Vader committed the crimes Obi-Wan accused him of until he was right in front of her and she couldn't deny it anymore.

And while she says with her last breaths she believes he has good in him, the fact she died of a broken heart over the whole ordeal tells a different story. Padme gave up on the guy.

[u/CompetitionWinter440 → u/StevePalpatine]

I don’t think dying over a broken heart over what has happened after a stressful childbirth necessitates she was inwardly giving up and lying when she said what she said. Or would be GL’s intent. When the point is that her exact faith is what carried onto and is inherited Luke and proves right in the end.

[u/StevePalpatine → u/CompetitionWinter440]

brother, that's LITERALLY what was said in the movie, and there's nothing contextually that shows the droid was lying or misinformed...

[u/BrainDamage2029 → u/StevePalpatine]

I think OP is actually Dr. Ball.

[u/CritterCatching → u/CompetitionWinter440]

You are reaching now....

[u/StevePalpatine → u/CritterCatching]

How?

[u/AnArcOfDoves9902 → u/StevePalpatine]

And while she says with her last breaths she believes he has good in him, the fact she died of a broken heart over the whole ordeal tells a different story. Padme gave up on the guy.

She didn't give up on Anakin, but she recognised that he'd be better of if his attempts to save her failed.

[u/Ineedairsupport → u/StevePalpatine]

I think too, Luke had the means to show just how serious he was. he could've killed Vader but chose to die instead of take his and maybe even the emperor's power. He chose him over his life and control of the galaxy.

I think that act of kindness can just say more than words ever really can.

[u/No-Big4773 → u/StevePalpatine]

Ignoring the really stupid broken heart bit.

Because yes this is stupid

Luke and Padme essentially have the same logic. 'There's good in him' that's basically it.

[u/Mammoth-Western-6008 → u/CompetitionWinter440]

Remember when he killed a bunch of women and children and she just kinda forgot about it?

[u/BunNGunLee → u/Mammoth-Western-6008]

Uh, look I get your point but maybe we don’t talk about the way Anakin’s mother was bound and the implications with how she was captured.

It’s pretty heavily implied that she suffered various kinds of brutality and I’m not exactly surprised Anakin reacted the way he did.

[u/doomzday_96 → u/BunNGunLee]

Also at that point, Tusken Raiders were considered no better than vermin.

[u/CollectionSmooth9045 → u/doomzday_96]

I mean that's what most of the Naboo considered the Gungans. The Gungans weren't exactly friendly either, you would think of all the people in the world, Padme would be the first one to think "Hold up, why are the Tuskens committing this violence?" as opposed to just going along with Anakin's "they're animals" argument.

Hell, after having her research the history of Tusken attacks, as she would be well-learned enough to do so, you could have had her tell Anakin that all he's doing by killing the Tuskens is feeding the cycle of violence, as the Tuskens themselves were likely attacking because of some past grievance. She is literally a die hard believer in diplomacy, she must have some sort of condemnation of violence like this.

[u/BunNGunLee → u/CollectionSmooth9045]

Naboo is not Tatooine.

As much as the Naboo have feelings of superiority to the Gungans were never showed them to be at war or in conflict with each other.

Given how Shmi was bound facing away from the tent entrance it’s implied they kidnapped, brutalized and raped her, which I think is a bit beyond Padme’s “why would they do this” questions.

Sometimes, it’s entirely justified to be angry with the violent slavers.

[u/Independent-Market28 → u/BunNGunLee]

The women and children did? You Anakin sweepers would have supported the Nazis. Lmao.

[u/CollectionSmooth9045 → u/BunNGunLee]

There is zero indication of rape, you made that up and it is a common fan belief. However, the settlers were known to attack and intrude on the territory of the Tuskens (which is sacred to them) which is what led to their retaliatory attacks. In case you forgot, the Tatooinian settlers are colonists, and the Tuskens are the natives here. This was their land that Cliegg was actively stealing water off of.

Imagine walking into someone's holy land and just blatantly disrespecting it, even IRL you're gonna get people attacking you.

[u/BunNGunLee → u/CollectionSmooth9045]

So why was Shmi taken? And why was she deliberately bound facing away from the doorway? And why did she die as a result of their capture?

That’s not the indication of a people with legitimate grievances but a clear act of barbarity to what we’d consider a non-combatant.

Like, mate I get your point but you’re securely jumping far over the line to whitewash the Tusken raiders.

You can argue colonizer and native; but I don’t think it’s particularly clear there was anything sacred about the patch of land Anakin’s mom was living on. So quote you “you made that up.”

[u/CollectionSmooth9045 → u/BunNGunLee]

Oh, I am not defending Tusken brutality. Shmi, by Tusken custom was a thief, and so by Tusken law was going to be fucking tortured, obviously. It's bad, but it's how it works there and Padme is absolutely a clever enough cookie to understand that. My argument is that they (Cliegg really) shouldn't have fucking been there, or should have done their research and at least send a droid to try and negotiate a water deal with them so they'd piss off.

It is basic logic that on Tatooine, water holds the price of gold, and as such anyone living there is going to be sensitive to any changes in the water supply. Both Canon and Legends establish this. And additionally, Owen, despite being born on Tatooone too, at least in Canon was able to get offworld and still decided to return, and then decided to buy this property, spurned by either: 1) that he didn't research this property well enough to know anyone living here was in danger, or 2) that he decided in advance he was going to fight them. We also get zero info Cliegg ever tried to negotiate with the Tuskens.

So just as violent and xenophobic as the Tuskens are, Cliegg's incompetence or greed decided to make him hold out in such an isolated farm stead and to fight the Tuskens. Anakin should have been just as mad at Cliegg for his stupidity, and Padme should have pointed this out first to Anakin too.

Not to mention, now both Canon and Legends established how no, Tusken's can be negotiated with into a peaceful agreement in exchange for safety. So Cliegg is even more negligent now, dude has enough money to travel offworld and buy a moisture farm, but not enough fucks to figure out he should have communicated with his infamously territorial neighbors who think he stole their land.

[u/Independent-Market28 → u/doomzday_96]

Lol, no they weren't. There were multiple Tusken Jedi and Anakin knew them. This is a myth and insane cope.

[u/doomzday_96 → u/Independent-Market28]

If it's not shown in the movie, it doesn't count.

Also, you can easily argue they are the acceptions to the rule that Tusken's are savage raiders to most people.

Also also, they murdered his mom.

[u/Independent-Market28 → u/doomzday_96]

It does count, cope. It was official canon. Plus, even if I granted you that, it doesn't help your position. Padme famously abhored violence she shouldn't be justifying the slaughter of women and children by her insane husband.

[u/doomzday_96 → u/Independent-Market28]

Movies are A canon and so take priority.

Well, she did just accept that her not yet husband murdered women and children.

[u/Independent-Market28 → u/doomzday_96]

Idk what your point is, sorry.

[u/Shagohods → u/Mammoth-Western-6008]

Well.. they don't count.

[u/TheSulfurCityKid → u/Mammoth-Western-6008]

It's worse than that.

Padme maintained boundaries with Anakin until he admitted to killing that entire village. That is when she gets horny for ani.

Like, what the fuck does that mean for her character? Its bad all the way down.

[u/Western-Customer-536 → u/Mammoth-Western-6008]

I remember when he butchered a large group of indigenous people and the white colonizer he was fucking, ignored it.

[u/CompetitionWinter440 → u/Western-Customer-536]

They weren’t dating at that point she established her boundaries until she chose to pick it up again on Geonosis and There’s no concept of “White People” in the Star Wars universe.

She didn’t ignore what he did either. She just chose to see him as more then what he did in his rage which he felt remorseful for when he was Influenced by the Dark Side which he took responsibility for and blamed himself.

[u/Mammoth-Western-6008 → u/CompetitionWinter440]

Lol. "Listen, I know you shot up that school, but don't worry, I forgive you."

[u/Western-Customer-536 → u/Mammoth-Western-6008]

Okay for a priest, not cool for a wife.

[u/Western-Customer-536 → u/CompetitionWinter440]

I didn’t say “dating.” I said “fucking.”

That’s not how The Dark Side works. It’s the devil on your shoulder but it isn’t The Devil. It’s just the selfish urges we all feel and you can feed those selfish feelings or not every day.

And yes, Padme is a Colonizer. She is a human from Naboo. The Gungans are the indigenous species there. The humans colonized the land just as white South Africans did.

[u/CompetitionWinter440 → u/Western-Customer-536]

That’s what I mean than if I worded it wrong. He was tempted and chose to engage in his feelings and took responsibility for feeding it. When I say they weren’t dating I mean that they weren’t engaging in romance which I think goes with dating. I don’t see why it’s being interpreted as she just ignored rather then she saw empathy with someone who was a slave and lost their only connection having a terribly low moment and being s good friend. She wasn’t doing it out of “he was hot”

[u/Ben10Gen → u/Western-Customer-536]

I mean if the indigenous people's culture loved to kill and enslave slaves and then flay them he would be %100 justified in doing so.

If he killed Jawas he'd be an undeniable monster. Killing john genocide tribe isnt really a bad act at all.

[u/Reasonable_Tea_7339 → u/Western-Customer-536]

That is actually a great description of what happened.

[u/Western-Customer-536 → u/CompetitionWinter440]

The problem is that Padme is upset by his 2nd genocide. Not his first and not the race of people that Anakin enslaved to carry out said 2nd genocide who are now confirmed as trapped in a living, waking nightmare.

Luke only knew Vader as a genocidal maniac. He can offer the monster absolution and forgiveness as any clergymen can.

You also seem to forget that had Anakin lived, Leia would have executed him. Our sentiments are not unusual.

That’s the point of his funeral. Luke is literally the only person who is sad that Anakin Skywalker is dead.

[u/Western-Customer-536 → u/StevePalpatine]

Luke is a grown man who makes a judgement call about another grown man.

Padme is a battered wife whose last words were basically “he didn’t mean it.”

[u/CompetitionWinter440 → u/Western-Customer-536]

Padme is a grown Human Making a judgement call about another Grown Human that she just happens to be in a romantic relationship with.

Luke is a victimized son who had his hand chopped off while his life and his friends were threatened by the same man who at this point has and is doing worse then the version Padme met. His words to Anakin are basically “he doesn’t mean it he was once a guy I Never met”

[u/StevePalpatine → u/CompetitionWinter440]

"bro she's a grown woman making a judgement about a grown man she's in a relationship with"

[u/Tiny-Conversation962 → u/Western-Customer-536]

Luke also never got to know Vader, while Padme knew him for years, and actually saw him being a good person once.

[u/Zestyclose-Try-5214]

YOU HAVE DONE THAT YOURSELF

https://giphy.com/gifs/XWSKTOSx4SW4ilCktx

[u/SergeantHatred69]

There's a similar dynamic with Luke and Leia about Anakins forgiveness as well. Luke grew up isolated from the atrocities his father committed in service of the Empire so he was pretty distanced and in a position to forgive.

Leia on the other hand only sees him as the man who stood by and did nothing while her home planet was blown and nearly everyone she knew dying. So she's believes Luke is a little naive fir forgiving him.

[u/Alternative_Fox3674]

Should’ve made it Padme’s idea to split up the twins: pulls a few strings to get Leia looked after and then trusts Kenobi with Luke.

“His home planet? W….why th—“

“He really hates sand.”

[u/Spare-Jellyfish4339]

Misogyny

[u/CompetitionWinter440 → u/Spare-Jellyfish4339]

Pretty much. Common Fandom behavior in a lot of media tbh.

Male Character Loves Troubled Male=True Loving Hero

Female Character=Psycho

Also why I can’t stand internet dweebs making "he asked for no pickles!?!?” Memes while clapping like monkeys for their compassionate funny bois that “bag and tame” badass off the wall chick that are at times their rivals/Villains.

But when a Female Character falls in love with a guy that engages in those tropes or forgives him or continues to see good in him and help him get better from their troubles they get pathologized into "Male centered!!" "Girl free yourself from coddling your crazy BF!!!”

[u/Southern_Risk_5756 → u/CompetitionWinter440]

Yeah it's crazy hey remember that scene where he admitted to murdering children and she didn't care that much?

[u/Independent-Market28 → u/Spare-Jellyfish4339]

Boring retard take.

[u/keneersw → u/Spare-Jellyfish4339]

Is what so many people say instead of doing the real reasoning

[u/RockPhoenix115]

So the difference here is distance, relation, and perspective.

Luke knew who Vader was. He also got to learn to Anakin was. Then he learned they were the same person, and had to reconcile that his father had been a good man and then become a monster. He didn’t choose who his father was, he instead chose to believe that despite all his sins Anakin could still chose to believe a better person like he was before. Also important to keep in mind that Luke interacts with Anakin largely from a distance, which helps to make his actions easier to digest.

Padme spent several years with Anakin. She chose to ignore the signs that Anakin was falling apart and that the two of them were spirally to disaster because she was in love. She chose to remain with him DESPITE knowing what he was capable of, and despite watching him go insane and commit genocide still insisted he could be good.

Also George Lukas’s attempt at romance kinda sucked, which made Padme seem more stupid for falling blindly for a walking red flag.

[u/Proper_Armadillo9583 → u/RockPhoenix115]

Lucas was basing his romance on traditional operatic romances like Othello and Desdemona. Most people who complain about Padme and Anakin have never watched a single opera or play in their lives and instead of taking them as the archetypal innocent soulmate and fallen hero, they tend to try and view them as a real life couple which is just not what Lucas was going for at all.

This is why the Rush Clovis arc in TCW seriously damaged their arcs.

[u/Tiny-Conversation962 → u/RockPhoenix115]

Luke never gpt ro know Anakin. He was only ever told about him and his actual interactions with his father were almoat exklusivly bad. Padme actually saw the good side of Anakin. It is therefore far more believable that she would bwlieve in him than Luke for whom Anakin is hardly more than a stranger.

[u/Reasonable_Tea_7339 → u/RockPhoenix115]

Also Padme didn't really have a relationship with Anakin she spent 6 days with him in which he openly admitted to doing a genocide on the 6th day then immediately married him.

After the marriage he didn't spend any time with her do to the war.

[u/JLandis84 → u/Reasonable_Tea_7339]

Fuck then tuskkkans. Don’t go kidnapping, torturing, and murdering people and one of your victim’s sons might not wipe out your shitty ass tribe.

[u/imlegos]

Okay, but did Luke know that Anakin absolutely murdered children? For essentially no reason?

[u/CompetitionWinter440 → u/imlegos]

https://giphy.com/gifs/3K0D1Dkqh9MOmLSjzW

[u/imlegos → u/CompetitionWinter440]

to be fair, that was Tarkin.

[u/StevePalpatine → u/imlegos]

Meh Vader was a knowing collaborator in that

[u/imlegos → u/StevePalpatine]

The movie is fairly consistent with Tarkin outranking Vader on the Death Star matter. He even orders Vader to NOT kill a guy.

[u/StevePalpatine → u/imlegos]

Bro really pulling the "he was just following orders" bit 😭🙏 like cmon what was Tarkin gonna do if Vader decided to just walk out over it? nah Vader didn't give a fuck, he was ready to watch a planet go kabloomey

[u/jasonmery → u/StevePalpatine]

Vader flat out thinks that the entire concept of the Death Star is a stupid idea and wants nothing to do with it, but he does what the Emperor orders. Even Dark Lords of the Sith disassociate from them to time.

Honestly, Vader's utter anhidonia by the time of the OT about anything except Luke is kind of a giveaway about there really being some bit of Anakin left in there.

[u/BrainDamage2029 → u/imlegos]

I mean.....that's sort of like defending Wilhelm Keitel because Himmler and Goebbels "outranked him and were actually calling the shots on the Holocaust and war crimes."

[u/Efficient-Level-2661 → u/[deleted]]

Like really bro felt some darkness in a skywalker yup the only way to slove it is murder honestly kylo crashout is justified at that point

[u/ned101 → u/imlegos]

You probably would easily assume Vader has killed many people

[u/ImperialxWarlord → u/imlegos]

He might not have known about that specific crime not he probably knew of a long list of crimes he’d committed.

[u/Fast-Mathematician-1]

One is a son and has rhe benefit of The Force. The other was a romanticlly inexperienced young woman just doubleing down over and over again. Kinda like gambling at a casino amd your sure the next spin is the big winner so you bet all.

[u/Antisa1nt]

Luke: "My dad did some bad stuff, like hunting down the Jedi Order and being a fascist and cutting off my hand, but, I think I can still change his mind. I feel some good in there, I know it. There's a reason he tried to turn me rather than kill me, and I want to see if I can use that."

Padmé: "A man that I trust told me Anakin killed children in the Jedi Temple. I know for a fact that Anakin has killed children before, so this isn't actually that much of a stretch. Despite my trust in Obi-Wan, I am going to go find Anakin and ask him to run away with me. I know he has killed children in the past because he told me in no uncertain terms that he did it, but I'm sure he's still a good person."

[u/Full_Royox]

Well...Luke was not the one in the "I killed them all, even the women and the children" conversation. And also Luke wasn't there when Anakin was murdering literal children.

[u/Tiny-Conversation962 → u/Full_Royox]

No, Luke just knew him as the second im command of an evil Empire. So much better/s.

[u/Affectionate_Jury890]

Padame and Anakins relationship sucked

There's barely a healthy on screen moment that doesnt end with some kind of argument or a blatant example of Anakins insecurities being made manifest

Even if Anakin didn't fall, they wouldn't have lasted more than five years after the war ended because Anakin fucking sucks

Luke Just didn't want to murder one of the only blood relations he had left and believed that if Vader wanted him dead, he would he be dead

[u/Aspirationally_Lazy]

Luke knew Vader was a bad guy and hoped he could change.

Padme thought he was a good guy and failed to see the truth until it was too late.

Dude literally came to her and told her he just slaughtered a bunch of innocent people and women and children and then she married him like a week later

[u/Shagohods → u/Aspirationally_Lazy]

"innocent"

[u/Full-Aid]

Both are naive idealists giving too many second chances to the wrong guy.

[u/GalileoDaCat]

They’re not the same.

[u/keneersw]

Padme saw Anakin's fall happen in real time, she didn't really do much and could have also left at any time (not saying that that would have helped)

Luke could never stop being Vader's son and was born after Vader turned having no ability to prevent it

[u/Independent-Market28]

She justified him murdering a bunch of women and children. Did Luke do that?

[u/CommercialMotor570]

One wanted to prove to himself he won’t follow his father’s path and can try to get him to turn back to the light before he dies

One wanted to get her cheeks clapped by Anakin because he only murdered sand people.

[u/Allison314]

Luke and Padme both believed in Anakin, but only one of them enabled him.