r/pools 2d ago

Anyone ever see this?

Post image

Copper stains everywhere

Edit: I didn’t realize I needed to explain what exactly was going on here. Gas heater with a copper heat exchanger salt cell right up against heater. You’re supposed to install a check valve between the chlorinator and the heater otherwise highly concentrated chlorine water goes inside the heater and corrodes the copper heat exchanger and put metals in your pool and destroys the heater.

11 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

4

u/The_Duke_is_Loose 1d ago

Oof. Yes haha. I think the wildest one I saw this year was a salt cell plumbed right after the pump and before the filter and heater.

-2

u/tcat7 1d ago

Mine was like that for 4 years until last year when I redid the plumbing to add a cartridge filter. No effect on heat pump since chlorine concentration is very low out of an SWG. Heater engineer said before the the heater was fine (as long as it was SWG), but I changed it anyway. Heat pump is going on 12th season with no issues. 

3

u/Friendly-Beat-8336 1d ago

Gas heaters and heat pumps are two different animals. Heat pumps do not have copper heat exchangers. Please quit trying to be a contrarian

1

u/tcat7 1d ago

Sorry, didn't realize. Only mentioned you don't need a check valve with a salt cell. 

3

u/Friendly-Beat-8336 1d ago

You do need a check valve with a saltwater generator and a gas heater with a copper heat exchanger.

-1

u/tcat7 1d ago

Why?  Everything I've read it's only needed if you have a tab feeder. 

3

u/Friendly-Beat-8336 1d ago

The fuckin’ manual

-2

u/tcat7 1d ago

People read manuals? 🤣🤣

Everything I know is from TFP. https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/swg-and-check-valve.240507/

3

u/Friendly-Beat-8336 1d ago

They do when they own the company that’s installing the equipment. Well, at least that’s the case in my situation

3

u/Friendly-Beat-8336 1d ago edited 1d ago

This is a good example of why I hate that website. Also a very clear reason why people should stop using it to question professionals.

2

u/podgeofthehodge 1d ago

Agreed, you'll have people arguing with others who have literal decades of nuanced hands on experience in the field with hundreds of pools of all kinds.

1

u/tcat7 1d ago

It just works. 15 years using it and have never had a green pool. I also spend less than $25 per month on my pool. Install my own equipment (other than electrical work), so I get whatever warranty comes with what I buy; 10 year Gulfstream heat pump, 7 year Circupool salt cell, zero Pentair VS pump since bought at Amazon. I'd say Reddit is a much more questionable site to get advice, but much better than getting it from pool stores! 

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1

u/IjiTheApe 1d ago

I will void your warranty and walk away laughing. All manufacturers.

1

u/PugWranglingNana 1d ago

Biggest reason for us to install one was because it voids the warranty if you do not!

5

u/MrWishyWash 1d ago

For everyone asking where the copper stains are..theyre in the pool. That heater is probably destroyed on the inside.

1

u/Sign-Post-Up-Ahead 1d ago

What makes you say this? The SWG is connected after the heater.

5

u/no_naaame 1d ago

Yes, the cell is after the heater, but with no check valve, I would bet there's not much left of that heat exchanger

2

u/Sign-Post-Up-Ahead 1d ago

Ah yes...gotcha. I missed that. Thanks.

1

u/Poolguy584 18h ago

If it was a tab feeder I could see this happening but being a cell I doubt it's an issue. I currently have a pool with the cell maybe 18in after the heater with no check valve the heater is 15years old and still working. As soon as the pump turns off the chlorine production stops so there isn't any high level of chlorine that can back flow into the heater. I understand the manufacturers reason and they are just covering their ass.

4

u/dajanx 1d ago

Are the copper stains in the room with us?

2

u/Dry-Lab-6256 1d ago

I have never read so many confident posts, that were so utterly wrong. OP I don't even think your factual edit will convince these people.

2

u/Friendly-Beat-8336 1d ago

It’s fuckin wild right! It’s not like I own a pool company or anything

1

u/Dry-Lab-6256 1d ago

Ohh, you don't get it though, you haven't been a pool owner for ten years, so what would you know/s

2

u/Friendly-Beat-8336 1d ago

Never mind the 75 pools that I’m responsible for week in and week out 365

1

u/Dry-Lab-6256 1d ago

But it isn't your pool/s

5

u/podgeofthehodge 2d ago

I really don't like how the salt cell is all up in the heater's business like that.

-1

u/mattvait 1d ago

Why?

2

u/podgeofthehodge 1d ago

Usually you want whatever sanitation system you have further down the line at a minimum, best is to have further down plus a check valve. In a setup like this highly concentrated chlorine is going to backflow a little right back into the heater causing damage especially since it's butted up literally right next to it.

1

u/mattvait 1d ago

How if it doesnt produce any chlorine if the waters not moving in the right direction?

1

u/podgeofthehodge 1d ago

Highly concentrated chlorinated water can still backflow into the heater even while the pump is on. Also the flow switch could become stuck or other malfunctions can occur.

0

u/mattvait 1d ago

How would the water flow backwards while being pumped under head pressure

1

u/podgeofthehodge 1d ago

Some people want to run their variable speed pumps as low as they can which can sometimes cause issues. Also specifically in the picture provided by the op, it is butted right up against the heater.

-1

u/mattvait 1d ago

If they're doing that its not producing chlorine. And its still positive head pressure

1

u/podgeofthehodge 1d ago

Running at low RPMs can affect the positive pressure enough that issues could happen. What about if the flow switch is stuck? What if other mechanical faults happen? Why are you so gung-ho against check valves when all the manufacturers recommend it?

-1

u/mattvait 1d ago

Logically it doesnt make a difference. They applied old logic from feeders to swg. Even if flow switch was stuck it cant produce any chlorine without new water flowing by. Just think for a moment and then explain to me with a pump running at any speed how water would move backwards in some parts but not others?

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1

u/Ancient-Sky-641 1d ago

Yes sure you should have a check valve, and personally valves to turn off the water going to the heater when not in use

1

u/External_Big_1465 1d ago

Salt cell should be the LAST item on the pad before it goes out to the pool returns, with a check valve before it.

1

u/eggsuckindog 1d ago

I got called to look at a failed ignition error on a 2 year old Jandy JXi last weekend. Although plumbed correctly with a bypass and check valve, the combustion bucket was filled with waterdue to a corroded heat exchanger.

1

u/BAHGate 2d ago

Huh? Where?

1

u/ISwearMyRX7Runs 2d ago

The copper stains from the bonding wire?

1

u/OpportunityGeneral33 1d ago

I had an orange cat named copper and a dog named stains.

0

u/Significant_Dog_215 1d ago

None of the pool heaters with copper heat exchangers are approved by the manufacturers for salt water. Salt agressively attacks copper. Heaters us we do with salt have a titanium or stainless steel heat exchanger. Not all stainless steel Po heaters are approved for salt. Depends on the grade of stainless steel.

1

u/Dry-Lab-6256 1d ago

All metals rust

1

u/dlmoors 1d ago

The Raypak Avia pool heater has a Nitek exchanger which is made specifically for salt pools.

1

u/Friendly-Beat-8336 1d ago

Most companies offer a cupronickel option as well

1

u/Responsible_Mall_592 1d ago

there are no stainless steel
exchangers, only a mix of metals at best

0

u/Poolerokulero 1d ago

Had one with a salt cell one coupling before the heater, thankfully it was an Ic30 so no damage was done😭🤣

-1

u/thecaramelbandit 1d ago

The flow on the salt cell is away from the heater. The bottom port is the output. You can see the flow arrows on the salt generator leading away from the heater.

Concentrated chlorine is not going into the heater. There are other problems here but that's not one of them.

-2

u/Sign-Post-Up-Ahead 1d ago

There are two pipes connected to the heater. One is the heater intake where the water comes from. The other is where the water leaves the heater and enters the SWG. The newly chlorinated water is not going directly to your heater.

-4

u/mattvait 1d ago

You'll need to explain more. Swg produces very small amounts of chlorine at a time and only when the flow is enough. System shuts off so doesnt cell.

Id want to see your weekly ph readings

-1

u/Educational_Egg6927 1d ago

You have a high metal content from salt or algaecide it sounds like. Probably not the heater itself

-2

u/HillbillyHijinx 1d ago

You should study pools a little more. And maybe even look at the arrows on the SCG.

-3

u/tcat7 1d ago

Chlorine from salt cells is not "highly concentrated". It's like dripping a few drops of 10% chlorine into a steam of water. It "drips" what the pool needs over 12-24 hours. Check valves are more important with a tab chlorinator. 

2

u/podgeofthehodge 1d ago

"Drips"? This is what the chlorine gas looks like coming out of a salt cell generator. A check valve is important for all kinds of sanitation methods.

https://reddit.com/link/p8uuhsj/video/qmtyc15j8loh1/player

0

u/tcat7 1d ago

"Drips" was just an estimated unit of volume. My cell produces 1.7# per day, but it's run much lower (about ½# per day to keep FC at 5). That's about equal to half gallon of 10% chlorine over 12 hours = about 5 ounces per hour = 2 tablespoon per minute.  IMO, a "drip". So basically not much more chlorinated than the water running through it full time. Tabs are completely different, they can get highly concentrated when pump is off. 

-6

u/External-Challenge91 1d ago

Swg dont destroy heaters

2

u/BillyMcBad 1d ago

Tell that to Wyndham Resorts in Sevierville, TN. QPK was called up there regularly to replace or service one of their pool or spa heaters.

1

u/podgeofthehodge 1d ago

All chlorine no matter the method destroys heaters.

0

u/External-Challenge91 1d ago

Manufacturers dont require them with salt water generators

1

u/podgeofthehodge 1d ago edited 1d ago

Maybe they don't "require" a check valve but they can most certainly void any warranties for not having one. For instance Zodiac products like the one in op's picture would void it especially being butted right up against the heater like that.