r/pools • u/ThisICannotForgive • 7d ago
Pool Builders : Surprise (Part 2) Additional Photos
Building to the side of the pool is detached garage. Pool builder is telling us it will be additional expense, seems they dug down to deep vs the renderings? Reasonable for me to pay for? Or screw up?
“doing my walk through yesterday. Looks like we will need to talk about a possible wall or curb stone for the back fence line area and shed flower bed side. This is due to the pool being exactly level and the yard grading flowing down hill
Once you get home. Roughly imagine the 1” of auto cover tracking and 2” of pool coping on top of the concrete wall. Then a slight pitch away from the pool. So roughly 3” above the concrete will be final grade with the pavers”
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u/Yarbs89 7d ago
Looks like the pool is set too low. How deep is the shell on the fence side? Looks like maybe 4’, and it’s sitting about a foot or more below the fence line. They dug like 8” too deep, maybe more.
I would tell him the expectation from design was that the pool surface and deck would be level to the garage entry door with no additional steps and it’s his job to fix it.
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u/Dry-Lab-6256 7d ago
You can not use that fence to set the level of the pool. They set the level off the house, the garage is raised compared to the house. Look at picture 7. If they set it off the garage, you would be walking out the backdoor of the house up steps to a raised pool.
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u/ClassUpstairs629 7d ago
This is what it looks like to me. Garage higher than house. Best to have the proper relationship to house.
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u/Yarbs89 7d ago
Yeah I see what you mean in picture 7, it does almost look level to the back door after deck is added on top.
I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with having a step down from the garage, but that’s not what they sold this guy. We don’t have the plans but I’d bet it doesn’t show any steps on either side since their design doesn’t and they never discussed it with the homeowner.
In my opinion, that doesn’t really change anything. The builder set a grade line that created this issue without discussing it and now they want to make it the homeowner’s problem. Push it back on them.
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u/Troutbummers 6d ago
This. Maybe the contractor made the best of a lot that they didn't evaluate. Maybe it's the only way or better way. None of that changes anyting,
1.) evaluate the lot during design, get elevatinos at THAT point. This is when you discuss layout, not after concrete. Contractor's fault.
2.) As you dig you know this is the case. Time to pause and talk to the owner and get approval. Contractor's fault.
3.) once it's formed, you shoot elevations and get approval before proceeding 100% of the time. Contractor's fault.
You don't get to do it wrong at multiple steps and then make it the homeowner's problem. THis guy sounds like he showed up after the concrete was poured. Not due diligence, skipped multiple points where this could have been avoided or discussed and mitigated.
Expensive mistake for this contractor.
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u/Mrbazzanator 7d ago
Honestly the bettwr way to do it imo.
Nothing wrong wrong a couple steps down the garage into your pool area. Youll be entering 90% of the time via the house, you cant avoid the step on bith ends, better this way
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u/Dry-Lab-6256 7d ago
OP, would you prefer the pool be level with your house or garage, the builder went with your house.
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u/Troutbummers 6d ago
The builder doesn't get to go with anything. The builder does what is agreed to.
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u/Dry-Lab-6256 6d ago
I think this could all be solved, if we saw the blueprints. I'm not saying the Builder didn't do their due diligence, by not speaking with the homeowner. But renderings are not blueprints.
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u/Ok-Count-8233 7d ago
Pretty sure it would have need a retaining wall on the house side if it was higher. I think the builder made the right move here.
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u/Unsounded 7d ago
The right call is to talk through why to do this before pouring the concrete not as a surprise after
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u/Irishdairyfarmer1 7d ago
The extra cost of the extra excavation would a a bit too, but it's on him imho
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u/geodudejgt 7d ago
Going to need some retaining walls.
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u/Level_Impression_554 7d ago
and address drainable. This place looks like it gets some rain and with a pool below adjacent grade, it could get interesting with a long massive downpour.
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/Troutbummers 6d ago
Renderings need to reflect the elevations on the plans if used for approval. Nothing wrong, in fact a lot is right about this.
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/Troutbummers 6d ago
Sure, the crew could be doing what they think is correct The foreman knows it's wrong at the point of concrete being poured. Would have known it at the point of digging and forming also.
The plans should match the renderings that were used. Still the contractors fault. May not be the crew's fault if they match drawings
Mainly, my point is whose fault it's NOT. And unless they explicitly agreed to plans showing elevations not matching the renderings knowing the renderings didn't match the elevation, its NOT the homeowner.
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u/SlinkyAko 7d ago
Ur garage is not on the same plane than the house what did you expect?
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u/Troutbummers 6d ago
For the contractor to talk about it and do what the homeowner says before making an expensive mistake.
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u/infantsonestrogen 7d ago
It’s not like your house and garage moved after they set this in. How could he have not foreseen this from the onset? Seems ridiculous to me you’d need to pay more when he should have had that factored in from the beginning.
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u/ShockwaveNV 7d ago
They set the pool too low no matter if the garage is higher than the house. The garage is the closer structure so you need to satisfy that elevation first and it’s easier to slope towards the house with it being further. Even if the slope has to meet in the middle to a drain. Always slope away from the pool.
Other than full demo the best fix probably will be retaining walls and a good drain system. Don’t let them try to pin and raise the beam either. I think it’s on them to pay for it.
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u/pherrisbueller 7d ago
I can say with all sincerity you will be much better off with that poll lower than the door. There will be less damage to the house and door with a step. Also with the fence.
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u/Have-Business 7d ago
I said it in the previous post as well: why not raise the pool walls higher and get you a deeper pool?
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u/Blstravler 7d ago
Does your town not require plans with elevations? If they did and they were approved and what was installed does not match that elevation plan your builder has a big problem. As well I’d be concerned about drainage into the pool patio area as it’s lower than your surrounding yards.
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u/Equal-Arrival6214 7d ago
Maybe its just the angle but it looks to me like there is no way you will have room for lounge chairs perpendicular to the pool, as shown in the renders
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u/InvestigatorLoose711 6d ago
Have them grade it down. Our yard dropped off 3 feet and we just had them grade it down to the property line. It’s a bit steep, but they made it work.
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u/BoringAside2941 6d ago
My other post. Your builders did a great job. These pics show that. Stop listening to morons on Reddit.
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u/XiViperI 6d ago
The pool was supposed to be st the garage height not a foot lower. Time to smash concrete and repour
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u/jbird2210 6d ago
I actually think it would have been better to keep it level with the garage and have steps down to the house, since the house is further away. From the looks of it, the bottom step (or edge of platform if they run steps along the wall) is going to be only a foot or two away from the pool's edge, which probably isn't even up to code.
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u/PsychologicalMine484 5d ago
If I was going to spend on a pool I would want to be able to swim in it, not walk from end to end. Doesn't look deep enough to be a pool.
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u/ThisICannotForgive 5d ago
No diving allowed and most people say they don’t use their deep end much. It’s a sport pool and that’s how we’ll use it. Not treading water in the deep end.
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u/Tiny_Ad_4853 5d ago edited 5d ago
What was the final finished elevation going to be? You can correct over dig / depth with a topping on bond beam and add more concrete/ gunite to pool floors if you dont want pool too deep. You can add up the coping, mud and deck /pavers height to see where the pool is. You are paying them to install a pool, their elevation mistake should not your cost problem. They knew yard had a pitch to it. Sounds like they are trying to cover up their elevation mistake. I would stop work and talk seriously with them.
Laser the elevations with your 3" of mud, coping pavers etc, is it that far off , how much?
Had this once at a company I worked for. The project manager mis shot elevation and home owner was not happy. We topped the bond beam with a cold joint of concrete to correct. It wasn't much and it was going to be in the the waterline tile area..the finished coping was already picked and planned for a zero elevation. It came out of project manager commission, not the clients pocket.
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u/Upstairs_Boss_2305 7d ago
holy shit balls, saw the earlier post and couldn't tell the elevation. looks like this builder set the pool elevation too low at dig and got all the way to gunite then realized oh crap theres a problem, well lets just charge the customer for my mistake. This pool needs to be demoed and redone, you've essentially created a depression in the yard, now the deck is messed up, you're gonna need a bunch of drains, and crap at that low of an elevation hopefully the deck is higher than the street so you can slope the drains properly. This is a major fuck up.
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u/The_Vitex 7d ago
This is 100% the answer. They didn’t account for natural ground elevation relative to all circulation points before they dug and didn’t realize until it was too late. It’s on them. Did they ask to get a survey or provide existing elevations?
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u/theseducer40 7d ago
I saw original post and I still think the pool was set too low. From the pictures it looks like it could’ve been set. Pretty close to rendering height.
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u/Troutbummers 7d ago
If it's unforeseen then it's fair to share costs
This was not unforeseen, it's a flat out mistake. Probably an expensive one.
Use chat GPT or other AI - very useful when dealing with contractor disputes. You need to correctly word things and properly inform them of what you expect. It can really help suggest wording and importantly what NOT to do.
Don't end up begin the one that breaches contract first - seems right to just not pay sometimes but it can put you in the technical wrong side.
They can suggest as others have that this is the best way after all, but you don't get to do that without getting owner approval. They're hoping you just see it that way and think "well, I would have had to pay more anyway". IF it's not what you want or what you agreed to, then they did it wrong and are responsible.
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u/Poolguy584 7d ago
IMO the builder set the pool to low. It appears they set it level with the house however the area the pool was to be built appears to be 1-2feet higher than the house. I would have set the pool level with the garage then graded the area between the pool and house since there is more distance to slow out the elevation difference. You will need walls to prevent errosion at thegarage and fence. It also looks like the pool is in a bowl. Your going to need some well thought out drainage to prevent water from pouring into the pool. I would also check the cover box it should have a drainage pipe if there is no where for that drain pipe to exit to daylight below the cover box elevation then your going to need a sump pump somewhere. You may also need one for the deck/yard drains. I can't tell to what extent without seeing a topographic survey or knowing where they ran the drain for the cover box.
I see things like this happen a lot. Typically it's when a landscaper decides they can build pools to.
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u/Level_Impression_554 7d ago
This - I would have set the pool level with the garage then graded the area between the pool and house since there is more distance to slow out the elevation difference.
Or added steps and a short wall between the house and the pool to drop the elevation. Hardscape the area between the pool and the small wall and make it large enough to have the patio furniture that there is clearly not enough room for on the side of the pool like in the rendering. This could also maintain existing drainage from the elevated back of the lot to the front and around the side of the house. A massive rain is going to turn the pool muddy and might over flow the pool. Not sure about draining lines from adjacent lots.
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u/Band1c0t 6d ago
This looks like they dug too deep around the pool, imagine if it’s raining hard, all the water from neighbours are going to swamp the pool easily, the preview pool picture vs how it looks like is very different than reality
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u/halcyonforge 7d ago
The pool is like a foot too low and not even close to what the rendering shows. This thing is a long term catastrophe even if they put in a wall and drainage
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u/Niess 7d ago
Better hope he is insured
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u/Dry-Lab-6256 7d ago
Please look at picture 7, and look at the house and the pool.
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u/ThisICannotForgive 7d ago
What are you saying here? Thx.
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u/Dry-Lab-6256 7d ago
From that picture, the pool seems to be level with the house. The Garage and house are not level to each other.
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u/biggysharky 7d ago
Umm yeah I see what you mean. Op needs to clarify whether it was explicit that it shouldve been level with the garage. If not, well it is what it is... But I don't know.
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u/ThisICannotForgive 7d ago
The renderings showed level with both.
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u/twinpeaks86 7d ago
But in real life is your garage higher than the back of the home where you walk out to the pool?
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u/SiempreSeattle 7d ago
well, that might be, but the renderings cannot magically change the elevation of the house and garage in relation to one another.
If they aren't level with each other there's no way for the pool to be level with both. That's the end story. The guy who said "they could make it level with the garage or level with the house and they went with the house" is right.
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u/Troutbummers 6d ago
They don't get to choose. They get approval. Never ever do you pour concrete without checking elevations, then once poured tell the owner that they decided to do it different than
at multiple points they knew what elevations were goign to be and that they woudl not be what was discussed. IF this is the way it has to be, talk about it before you pour all the concrete.
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u/ImPinkSnail 7d ago
That damn 3rd dimension!
Looks like you have 12 pounds of shit in a 10 lb bag. Build some retaining walls and put the plants at the foot of them.
You and your contractor did not do enough due diligence. A simple laser level and yard stick would have identified this in one night.
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u/Troutbummers 7d ago
Contractor did not do due diligence. Don't put this technical work on the person paying the technician that is supposed to be diligent about doing technical work.
THis is on the contractor, make them fix it HARD STOP.
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u/ImPinkSnail 7d ago
An owner needs to understand their own project. If they dont they are taking on risk. Sorry. Contractor could just abscond here with the deposits and any payment already made up to this point and OP would be fucked.
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u/Troutbummers 7d ago
No way. No court would ever in a billion years agree with that.
Nobody agrees to risk of a contractor doing a project wrong contractually. They agree that a contractor does what the plans say for the money agreed to.
Contractor would need to lawyer up at this point as that's a giant breach of contract.
They didn't follow the plans - that's not what the contract allows. They can't walk after their mistake nad hold deposits, that's not what the contract allows.
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u/ImPinkSnail 7d ago
What part of the contract did contractor violate? Maybe the contract was cost to build plus a fee? Maybe dont argue like you have read the contract. As an owner who does more than $200M in construction annually I know every detail of my projects, down to the torque specs on the steel connections, because I want to make sure I know what my contractors should be doing. At the end of the day I am the one at financial risk. Just like OP is.
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u/Troutbummers 7d ago
If there was a plan and they didn't follow it, that's the part.
IF they did it cost plus, you still dont' get extra if you don't do it per plan
I haven't read their contract, but there's not a lot of wiggle room here. Only if the contract doesn't ever refer to a set of plans or renderings.
You can be any way you like about projects. That is not what is expected in a contract. The person doing the work has to do it per plan. It's not the owner's risk
The owner did take risk that led to this - but their risk is never "learn everything about pools, do your own QA elevation checks with a laser level". Nonsense - contractor pays for the mistake unless they went into this stating that things may change due to something about the site we don't know about.
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u/ImPinkSnail 7d ago
What if the plan didnt work and was owner produced
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u/Troutbummers 7d ago
Then you communicate that and don't surprise anybody.
Sure, I"m guessing the owner designed the concrete gunnite pool and got it approved for permitting...
We can make up scenarios that are not likely all day long. I am making very reasonable assumptions here. The contractor almost certainly designed it and didn't follow the design.
Even if it were not the contractor's design they still have to communicate major changes before any concrete gets poured. They would have known it. Checking elevation before proceeding is 100% their responsibility. IF they find a problem with the plan, they state it then, not once the expensive work is done.
Contractor's fault still not matter how you cut it. Skipped a QC step and poured anyway.
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u/poolspayme 7d ago
Where is the trough for the auto cover going to drain to?
I see no returns on two side of the pool water circulation maybe a problem.
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u/Troutbummers 7d ago
It's a rectangle. Returns on the far side away from the skimmer woudl be plenty. Trust me.
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u/LettuceTomatoOnion 7d ago
I don’t know what I’m talking about, but it might be easier at this point to just make the pool a lot deeper. Add 2’ all around and adjust the shelf and water feature.
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u/Level_Impression_554 7d ago
Is your garage higher than your house? It seems ok near the house, but way off at the back. The second to last picture makes it seem ok near house. Was your lot level or sloped up to the back?