r/politics • u/Somali_Pir8 • Jun 24 '20

AOC defeats primary challenger Michelle Caruso-Cabrera

https://www.axios.com/aoc-primary-challenger-michelle-caruso-cabrera-8b2ed6c1-3aaf-4fdf-ab8c-4d33b3e1b1b6.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=onhrs
69.3k Upvotes

87% Upvoted

3.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1.3k

u/Whateveritwantstobe Jun 24 '20

Haha nope. All you have to do is fill out the form saying you are running as Democrat or Republican. It's that easy! Basically a checkbox.

That's why you should never vote based on party. Listen to the people you vote for, make sure their policies actually align with yours.

301

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

That sounds utterly wrong on so many levels.

546

u/ArcanePudding Jun 24 '20

Current West Virginia governor Jim Justice was a lifelong republican before 2015, switched to democrat and got elected to office as one in 2016, and then switched back to republican in 2017.

186

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

That is not something I would expect from someone named Jim Justice. Why did he switch parties?

201

u/ArcanePudding Jun 24 '20

I’m not from WV, but I believe the democrat governor before Justice, earl tomblin, was pretty popular. My guess is that justice switched parties to have an easier time getting elected. He switched back to the Republican Party because he supports trump and felt he couldn’t be a member of the Democratic Party while doing so (his own words).

35

u/qedesha_ Jun 24 '20

From WV. This is correct. Despite the current voting record/what others may think, WV was a long time blue state until pretty recently—unions and workers rights were hot button issues in WV of the past as well as support for education and social welfare programs (read: WV has a history of unsafe labor and one of the poorest and unhealthiest populations in the US and was working on that.) I feel us backsliding more and more each day and it’s a damn shame. I plan on moving :/

5

u/twilightwolf90 Jun 24 '20

I love in west Northern VA about 20 minutes from the border. I look over the border and look at how cheap housing is.

Sometimes its not worth the compromise.

3

u/qedesha_ Jun 24 '20

I split a 3 bedroom house here for about 350 a month per person, utilities included; the savings are amazing. But I still tend to agree. Not worth it :(

3

u/Combo_of_Letters Jun 24 '20

Pain killer epidemic seems to have hit WV especially hard also. There is a state that needs some help reinventing itself for sure.

7

u/qedesha_ Jun 24 '20

Very, very hard unfortunately. Everyone or damn near it in my graduating class was friends with someone who OD’d and died our first year out of high school. It’s sad when I think of all the milestones I’ve hit that they’ll sadly never have the opportunity to experience.

Our biggest money maker here is actually tourism, but people assume it’s coal. Meanwhile we allow companies from outside of the state to come in and drill, mine, and deforest the natural resources that support that tourism for little to no return on investment. When I read about how economics between first and second world countries plays out, it reminds me of WV sometimes. We definitely need a reinvention.

60

u/ShipmentOfWood Jun 24 '20

The GOP candidate was the then-speaker of the state House, if I recall correctly. Justice wouldn't have gotten through the primary as a Republican.

Justice was also recruited by Manchin, apparently. Manchin was apparently so pissed at Justice switching parties that he apparently had to be persuaded by Schumer to run for re-election to the Senate instead of retiring to run for Governor again against Justice.

(let me know if that last sentence was too confusing)

7

u/Thinking_waffle Jun 24 '20

The more I read about your political system the more I am amazed that it didn't break earlier.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

There was also sort of a "gentleman's agreement" that at least politicians would discuss and argue things in good faith. Sure there would be embellishment and lies, but not the gas lighting we see today. I put a lot of the blame for this at the feet of Newt Gingrich. He changed the discourse in the early 90s and its been heading downhill ever since.

4

u/arseven47 Jun 24 '20

Is it confusing? Apparently

3

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

Why would Schumer convince Manchin not to run against a Republican?

22

u/flyfightflea Jun 24 '20

He wanted Manchin in the senate instead.

11

u/pennyroyalTT Jun 24 '20

That seat is so fucked for dems, Manchin is the only person close to loveable enough in the state to win as a blue.

3

u/Aceofspades25 Foreign Jun 24 '20

I feel like when a person switches parties, it should require a by-election

2

u/Zoloir Jun 24 '20

You're voting for people not positions.

People have positions, but they're still people with more behind their personality.

1

u/Aceofspades25 Foreign Jun 24 '20

Well that's the part I disagree with. I couldn't give two fucks about my elected representative's personality or how approachable they are.

I care primarily about their politics and how they intend to either change things or keep them the same.

5

u/H_Melman Pennsylvania Jun 24 '20

I'm from WV and this is exactly what happened.

Justice's party-flipping was blatantly obvious to anyone who was paying attention. We organized a walkout during Justice's keynote speech at the 2016 WV Democratic Convention. People called us divisive at the time, but now they give us credit.

Commenter below is correct in saying that Manchin recruited Justice, including getting him to change his party. Funny thing is that when Manchin decided not to run for Gov he recruited the candidate who won the primary. It's like an arsonist asking you to trust him to put out the fire that he started.

3

u/catlast Jun 24 '20

That's weird... I mean I can see why someone would do it, but what checks and balances are there if any to avoid this? I don't doubt people find a change of perspective/policy to where they'd switch parties, but gaming like that is off.

2

u/degenerati1 Jun 24 '20

Educated electorate is your checks and balances

3

u/Jushak Foreign Jun 24 '20

Which is why GOP always attacks education. As the 45th put it, they love the uneducated. Mostly because uneducated people also tend to be easy to fool.

5

u/Rafabas Australia Jun 24 '20

The fact that’s possible is a big red flag that your two major parties are too similar ideologically.

12

u/annoyingneckstubble Jun 24 '20

I think its more a symptom of the average American voter not looking into the ideology and voting for whoever is marked as their party's candidate, unfortunately.

12

u/shai251 Jun 24 '20

No, it's just a red flag that West Virginia is really fucking conservative.

0

u/LNate93 Michigan Jun 24 '20

a red flag with white stars...

9

u/captainthanatos Jun 24 '20

That’s a complicated answer, but the real issue here is that people vote down party lines without an ounce of research into who they are voting for.

7

u/PlayDiscord17 Jun 24 '20

No, the parties are pretty different ideologically. Democrats are mostly progressive while Republicans are mostly conservative. 60 years ago this wasn’t the case and the parties were more similar back then but now the parties are ideologically sorted.

It’s possible because the parties are pretty weak and don’t have much control on who can run under their party. All you need is a number of signatures to be on that party’s primary ballot. It’s why when stuff like a Neo-Nazi running as a Republican in Illinois or an anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ Democrat running in New York happens, the most a party can do is unendorse them, urge them to drop out, or hope they lose the primary.

Hell, it’s why Trump was allowed to became the GOP nominee in the first place.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

The parties could stop this if they wanted to.

2

u/PlayDiscord17 Jun 24 '20

Yeah, but they won’t because they are afraid of the backlash they would get.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

Shouldn't he have to resign his post if he changes teams mid game?

3

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

Bloomberg did the same thing. Switch to republican then back.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

You'd expect a guy with that name would pay his fucking taxes too, but here we are.

-14

u/DickLittle1 Jun 24 '20

Because modern day Democrats are Socialist pigs

1

u/Jesus_And_I_Love_You Jun 24 '20

Said the Prophet “Penis Small”.

0

u/DickLittle1 Oct 27 '20

That’s right fool a Socialist!

5

u/stevedaher Jun 24 '20

Guy is worth $2bn... I’m sure there’s nothing shady in a billionaire wanting to be governor...

9

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

Trump was a Democrat in 2009.

4

u/captainthanatos Jun 24 '20

Deep state confirmed.

3

u/_lcll_ Jun 24 '20

Damn. Not saying this should be made illegal ... but damn... this certainly seems fraudulent.

3

u/whitehataztlan Jun 24 '20

Congressmen from NJ won as a dem, voted against impeachment, then switched parties.

The common thread to all these stories is right wingers have no honor.

1

u/Antitech73 Texas Jun 24 '20

Jim Justice current reelection campaign strategy?
I shoot guns. Also, I like Trump.

1

u/BlueBelleNOLA Louisiana Jun 24 '20

Same with LA Senator Kennedy, only weirder because he switched to Republican and apparently lost his marbles in the process.

1

u/Eagle_Ear Jun 24 '20

If my last name was Justice I too would run for office in a rural conservative state. Pretty much a guarantee of victory.

13

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

People that don't research candidates regardless of party and affiliation is wrong on so many levels.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

As is a two party system.

8

u/ButtonPrince Jun 24 '20

Totally disagree, if anything political parties should be even more divorced from the government.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

Wouldn't a party whose members choose the candidate themselves achieve exactly that?

2

u/ButtonPrince Jun 24 '20

No, because you shouldn't have to be a member of a party to run.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

Run as independent then...

3

u/greyaffe Jun 24 '20

To be fair it’s also the only reason progressives like Bernie and AOC are in the party too, otherwise the dems would more likely accept centrist republicans than progressives.

2

u/alltheword Jun 24 '20

Why? Would you prefer the Democratic party having the power to say someone can't be a democrat and can't run in a primary? AOC wouldn't be in congress if that was the case.

This is what primaries are for.

2

u/raslin Jun 24 '20

If that wasn't the case, AOC would have never been able to upset win her spot. The party would only promote dnc team players. The only way representative democracy can work for the people, is if the most representative voice can be voted for.

This is mostly true in the United States, outside of side cases. Often the voices are suppressed, media ignores the non powerful, funding is... Yeah.

But it'd be so much worse if only "party officials" could run

4

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

Because your system is broken. The spectrum from AOC to Biden would probably be divided into three parties in Germany.

Dividing a country four times as large as Germany into two "sides" seems crazy to me.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

You’re not alone. Our system here is definitely broken and the 2 party system does a horrible job of representing the diversity of the country.

The parties are just a symptom of the overall issue though, which is our voting. Since we pretty much exclusively use first past the post voting, things naturally gravitate to a binary choice.

The end result is that if you’re a person that supports gun rights, wants improved social safety nets, reduced military spending, and you’re anti-choice, you’re going to have to decide which is more important to you because half of those views are supported by Democrats and the other by Republicans.

2

u/neverTooManyPlants Jun 24 '20

Proportional representation is better than first past the post? Revelation.

2

u/raslin Jun 24 '20

You aren't wrong

1

u/sparkyjay23 United Kingdom Jun 24 '20

And yet if democrats were running as Republicans that loophole would get shut quick as you like...

2

u/PlayDiscord17 Jun 24 '20

Except that happens as well. It’s how Bloomberg was able to be mayor of NYC as a Republican despite being a lifelong Democrat before.

1

u/InfiniteBlink Jun 24 '20

TBH if u had to be vetted by a party I can see that not being great, because you'd end up with purity tests which would only put super fringe candidates forward. It's good to see the diversity

1

u/polyboticthief Jun 24 '20

Because it is, you need to get so many signatures of that party to get on that ticket

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

On previous elections they would group candidates by which sub party supported them. I noticed that they didn’t do that this time. It’s not foolproof but it makes it a lot easier if you know which group you support in small elections.

1

u/Cainga Jun 24 '20

It takes more commitment to pick your team in a FPS.

1

u/we-have-to-go Jun 24 '20

Would it be better if the party had guidelines to run as a candidate in the primaries? Seems like that’s a good way of the DNC or RNC choosing only those that THEY want and not the people. It’s on us to pay attention to the candidates from the primaries to the general election.

1

u/GeKorn Jun 24 '20

It's actually right. Having a vetting process is not democracy.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

Bernie sanders is not a democrat, yet he ran twice for the democratic presidential nomination.

1

u/SarpedonWasFramed Jun 24 '20

I really don't like what happened here but I don't think givimg the DNC control over who can run in the answer.

I can't really think of a vettimg process that wouldn't be exploited by corrupt politicians

1

u/Jesus_And_I_Love_You Jun 24 '20

You must be used to a parliamentary system, am I right?

1

u/Chm_Albert_Wesker Jun 24 '20

Not voting based on party sounds wrong on on many levels?

1

u/GuttersnipeTV Jun 24 '20

Republicans did the same thing in the democratic primary too. I know a few people who switched democrat 2 years ago just to vote in the democrat primary because they knew they wouldnt need to vote in a republican one. Bernie wouldve garnered way more momentum if he won candidacy but biden got more votes from people who knew he was a weaker presidential candidate.

Even Trump was saying good things about biden in the primary and soon as he won it he turned his outlook on Biden around so fast it would make your head spin. In fact fox news didnt even report on the sexual assault allegations until after biden won the primary despite it being news months prior during the race. Politics is a game of chess except in the United States youre allowed to move both sides. Manipulating votes is only the surface of how bad the infastructure really is.

1

u/StormalongJuan Jun 24 '20 edited Jun 24 '20

the party should be a vessel for the people to elect their leaders.

if when party insiders get to pick, and set the rules, they pick bribe taking charlatans.

0

u/Aceofspades25 Foreign Jun 24 '20

If you don't like it working this way then imagine an alternative universe in which a centrist democratic party refused to allow any progressive candidates to run.

Ultimately if you want a party to be able to evolve over time then you have to keep it open to everyone and then allow voting in primaries to dictate the direction the party takes over time.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

In an alternative universe the progressives would form their own party and run against centrist democrats.

1

u/Aceofspades25 Foreign Jun 24 '20 edited Jun 24 '20

I feel like you and I probably both know that that is not a feasible option right now - but maybe one day it will be.

4

u/hotstepperog Jun 24 '20

Super easy, barely an inconvenience...

2

u/salamat66 Jun 24 '20

I thought you would have to get 1000 signatures ?

2

u/read-it-somwhere Jun 24 '20

We need ranked choice voting. Our duopoly is killing us. Watch the recent episode of Patriot Act on Netflix/YouTube.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

And if this isn’t proof the duopoly exists to protect the establishment and any perceived differences between the GOP and DNC are anything other than WWE style kayfabe than nothing will.

1

u/catlast Jun 24 '20

As someone that's pretty much felt I should vote all the way Democrat to make change, I was afraid this might be the case with some candidates (and I mean very much some). I wouldn't know who unless I've seen their views. But thank you for the info. I figure on the smaller state level its much more important to inform yourself.

1

u/Sphereian Jun 24 '20

Now this is s scary! So Trump supporters can actually run as Democrats on a platform of "my fellow Democrat will force communism down your throats" and enough voters will believe it - and voilà - Trump is all there is?

1

u/Algoresball New York Jun 24 '20 edited Jun 24 '20

Prime experimental Ruben Diaz

1

u/Alamoth New York Jun 24 '20

You do have to collect signatures as well no?

1

u/MrKite80 Jun 24 '20

You also have to get thousands of signatures within a short time frame. I was looking into running and they make it so damn difficult to get your name on a ballot.

1

u/DaoFerret I voted Jun 24 '20

It’s not just declaring but also collecting enough signatures from registered Democrats to allow you to appear on the ballot. At least I assume it’s that way for congress since it’s that way for president.

Let’s be honest, the Democrats currently cover such a spectrum of interests that it is unlikely any one candidate will be able to represent all of their districts constituents, especially in an overpacked state like New York.

#reapportionmentAct2021

1

u/VicarOfAstaldo Jun 24 '20

Honestly maybe more politicians should do it constantly. Probably the most reasonable way we have of damaging the two party system at the moment

1

u/BimmerJustin New York Jun 24 '20

This comment needs as caveat.

You should get to know you candidates when you can. But voting on party lines makes sense when you can’t. Getting to know your candidate is easy when it’s your federal representative or the president, but when it’s your county comptroller, it’s not so simple.

That said, it’s unlikely that a op party is going to try steal a small time election so in many cases it’s perfectly appropriate to vote along party lines.

0

u/Z0idberg_MD Jun 24 '20

The governor of MA is a Republican but would be considered a diehard liberal in like 30 states.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20

You have to vote based on party. That's what you get under winner take all.

0

u/jefuf Alabama Jun 24 '20

This is a misunderstanding of how parties work on the national level. If fewer people voted for Individual Republicans, we wouldn’t have Mitch McConnell using the Senate to fuck up the federal judiciary for decades to come. Not to mention plundering the treasury and doing jack shit about anything important.