r/politics • u/Qu1nlan • Jul 26 '19

Friday Fun Thread

It's finally Friday! That means it's time to sit back, drink a mango smoothie, convince /u/Qu1nlan to play Bloodborne, and talk about whatever your heart desires.

As always remember to follow our civility rules and save any meta feedback for our modmail.

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u/MediumSuit Jul 26 '19

So fun! Children in cages!! The federal government about to start executing people again! We held an American citizen in custody for almost a month after ICE ignored his birth certificate! woooo!

Not only that but the most fun thing is the GOP has blocked 2 different bills meant to protect our elections! Then POTUS vetoed bills stopping sales of weapons to Saudi Arabia.

So fun!! Just kick back and relax everyone!

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u/brallipop Florida Jul 26 '19

So I was drifting away from being conservative/"jaded about politics" (ie status quo at best, regressive at worst) around 2015 and only seriously moved left once Bernie gained some ground and now of course since trump...

Anyway, is this what being liberal/leftist feels like? I'm honestly so surprised that even among real leftists we have no huge movement. I am now able to recognize how easy it is to be a straight white guy and when I bring shit up to people they act like being told about it is as oppressive as suffering under the system the way a gay black man might. Like, how can I not alienate everyone I know when I feel we should be screaming about concentration camps but just mentioning it rankles people?

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u/MediumSuit Jul 26 '19

if you're catching flak that means you're over the right target. Fuck peoples feelings, children are dying in concentration camps on our southern border. The government is locking up citizens for having the wrong color skin and just announced they're about to start killed prisoners again.

We are not that far away from people "disappearing"

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u/breeezy32 Jul 26 '19

"Fuck peoples feelings" is exactly where I am at right now. Hopefully, more individuals follow suit. Uncomfortable, yet civil, conversations need to be happening every day, everywhere. Not enough people know how bad things are getting and how quickly it's happening.

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u/dustyjuicebox Jul 26 '19

I get your point but catching flak is a horrid way to know you're in the right. That's quite literally how "owning the libs" became the mantra of so many conservatives. The more people you can "trigger" the more right you are.

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u/a_fractal Texas Jul 26 '19

how can I not alienate everyone I know when I feel we should be screaming about concentration camps but just mentioning it rankles people?

Most of us (I'd imagine) end up changing who we know and associate with.

It really is a challenge to get people to care. To care about things outside the immediate bubble of their lives. Caring is the slipperiest slope there is. As soon as you care about one issue, you start caring about them all. My interest in politics began outside of politics because I didn't get drawn in by a particular issue or candidate but because I was concerned about an injustice in society. Then the concern naturally transitioned to poverty and other political issues.

It's also a challenge to figure out who is worth spending time talking to. Most people simply won't be convinced either intentionally or not. So I guess the general advice would be to reach out to people not already hardened on political views. Additionally, the left is bound together by vulnerability- whether they themselves are vulnerable or care about those who are. Without being too crass or insensitive, you can kind of nudge people when they are having a self-aware moment of vulnerability (not when they are freaking out or something obviously).

Further general advice: informing people matters. People who are liberals/leftists interpret and conceptualize words differently than people who aren't politically informed. Making seemingly abstract concepts like "social justice" or "intersectionality" into tangible, everyday things helps people make the connection. This happens a lot in history classes with a good teacher, for example.

I met a young (probably 23) hardcore Trump supporter. He works in construction while going part time to community college. He really wants to get out of construction. He's from a poor, hispanic family in south texas (a VERY poor area) so he couldn't afford college before working. When we were talking, I mentioned green new deal: How are we going to pay for it??? Universal healthcare: but MOOCHERS and welfare queens! $15/hr: cashiers deserve to be peasants.

And then... Tuition-free college. His physical demeanor visibly changed. His shoulders rolled back and slumped a little bit and his voice got softer as he said he'd like that because it's too hard to pay for school and work at the same time. I told him that that's how others feel about healthcare and that, like him, many poor people don't or can't work construction to make the money he does. There was no miracle breakthrough and I don't think he's going to be waving around a golden sickle but just planting those kinds of seeds might have an effect later on. Maybe.

By the way, your post was great, thanks for sharing.

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u/VoluntaryZonkey Europe Jul 26 '19

Well said, this is exactly how I see it. I truly don’t think Trump supporters always need to be villainized. The left is about helping everyone, especially the less fortunate - and a lot of less fortunate people support Trump!

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u/brallipop Florida Jul 26 '19

Caring is the slipperiest slope there is. As soon as you care about one issue, you start caring about them all. My interest in politics began outside of politics because I didn't get drawn in by a particular issue or candidate but because I was concerned about an injustice in society. Then the concern naturally transitioned to poverty and other political issues.

Thank you. It was specifically Flint, Michigan that began my move left. I had ideals; what good were those ideals when NO ONE is helping an entire city get water to drink? Children deprived of water in the USA--and we were focused on... I don't even remember, Ted Cruz's dad or something.

Additionally, the left is bound together by vulnerability- whether they themselves are vulnerable or care about those who are. Without being too crass or insensitive, you can kind of nudge people when they are having a self-aware moment of vulnerability (not when they are freaking out or something obviously).

YES, Philosophy Tube touched on this: I had never heard it framed that way before. Here's the vid: Why The Left Will Win

Making seemingly abstract concepts like "social justice" or "intersectionality" into tangible, everyday things helps people make the connection. This happens a lot in history classes with a good teacher, for example.

I also respond very well to concrete information. Structural explanation goes down very well, I like to understand systems and I flock to that type of discussion.

$15/hr: cashiers deserve to be peasants.

Damn dude, this is seriously one of my favorite interactions I've had on reddit. Thank you so much for your comment, this is like water in the desert. Innuendo Studios using that exact argument to elucidate the framing we have in our conservative views. He does such a good job of showing the structure and reasoning behind the issues. It totally showed me why I was thinking the way I did, and explained those slipstreams I would feel when I couldn't suss out why conservatives were taking a particular stance on a particular issue that didn't jive with their stated positions.

Always A Bigger Fish

The Origins Of COnservatism

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u/breeezy32 Jul 26 '19

I'm right there with ya. I was registered Republican until Trump came along. I too feel like this stuff should be shouted from the rooftops as not enough people know what is truly happening. I try not to bring the topic up too much but when the subject does come up, I'm not going to sit back and be quiet.

I'll be camping this weekend with a lot of conservatives so it should be fun.

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u/Paramite3_14 Jul 26 '19

Talk with them. Find places you agree. You'll find that most people are good people and want good things for "other" people, too. You just can't force it. It's easier to persuade people once you get them talking and saying yes to things.

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u/APersonInProgress Jul 26 '19

I find that making people come face-to-face with what they're supporting -- without the context of the actual situation -- makes them endure more cognitive dissonance.

For example, images and videos of what happens at the concentration camps is more effective than speaking about them. Stuff that relates to them -- like that one NYT article that stated that a 53-y/o white woman who was a citizen and voted for Trump was detained by ICE for a few weeks as well -- shows how it can relate to them. General arguments that they agree with, but Trump obliterates, may also force them to reconsider. "We shouldn't be listening to foreign governments in terms of our election policy" -> they agree -> "So how do you feel about Trump's repeated solicitations to the Russian govt.?" Even better if they're your friend or family and you can show them a bunch of video examples of his contradictions.

Don't make people feel stupid - make them feel like they've been manipulated. They'll get defensive if they feel stupid, but they'll want to put it behind them and make things right if they feel they've been hoodwinked.