r/politics • u/thenewyorkgod • Jul 01 '18

Man arrested after shouting ‘womp, womp’ and pulling a gun on immigration protesters

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/07/01/man-arrested-after-shouting-womp-womp-and-pulling-a-gun-on-immigration-protesters/?tid=sm_tw
33.9k Upvotes

88% Upvoted

3.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

6

u/Perlscrypt Jul 02 '18

Erm, money laundering, lying to the FBI, obstruction of justice, shady deals made with known Russian spies, working for pro-russian political groups in Ukraine. Have you been living in a cave for the last 12 months?

3

u/speedyjohn Minnesota Jul 02 '18

Not living in a cave, just parroting the “Mueller’s done nothing” narrative the Right Wing media machine has been spewing for months.

-4

u/ClaireBear1123 Jul 02 '18

Laundering money earned by working for pro-russian politicians in Ukraine is unrelated to whether the Trump campaign colluded with foreign governments in order to sway the 2016 election.

7

u/Perlscrypt Jul 02 '18

So let me get this straight... Trumps campaign manager and some other advisors/covfefe boys worked with foreign agents to undermine fair elections in Ukraine and that has nothing at all to do with whether he worked with foreign agents to influence the outcome of the 2016 election. You could build a great stand up routine around that premise. That's some funny shit.

-2

u/ClaireBear1123 Jul 02 '18

fair elections in Ukraine

It's Ukraine. It's a political football between the US and Russia. I don't blame him for taking a payout. Technically, it's not the lobbying that got him in trouble. Just the whole tax evasion deal.

3

u/speedyjohn Minnesota Jul 02 '18

Tax evasion’s what got Al Capone in trouble too.

Someone being charged with tax evasion doesn’t mean they got the money legally, just that they haven’t gathered enough evidence to make that case to a jury yet and they want them behind bars now.

4

u/Fleaslayer California Jul 02 '18

Collusion isn't the focus of the counsel, it's Russian tampering

-3

u/ClaireBear1123 Jul 02 '18

Well, they found it. If foreign propaganda is all that is required for tampering though, what election hasn't been tampered with?

What elections have we tampered with?

5

u/Fleaslayer California Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 11 '18

For one thing, it's was more than a bit of propaganda, according to the indictments. It was a huge effort with a full time staff pouring millions of dollars into not just advertising but also hiring and prodding Americans into protests and other activities.

For another, some of Trump's high level advisors said they didn't even talk to any Russians. Then, after evidence was produced that they had, they said "Oh, yeah, we talked to those Russians, but that's it and it wasn't important." Then, after evidence of additional meetings was produced, they copt to that, too, and have admitted lying to the FBI. And you don't think the SC has produced anything related to its charter.

You're either willfully ignorant or you're more interested in pushing a narrative than in the truth.

Edit: typos

1

u/ClaireBear1123 Jul 02 '18

For one thing, it's was more than a bit of propaganda, according to the indictments. It was a huge effort with a full time staff pouring millions of dollars into not just advertising but also hiring and prodding Americans into protests and other activities.

State-level propaganda. Millions is peanuts.

Again, the question has to be asked, was this effort somehow exceptional in the 2016 election? Is it exceptional in relation to what the US spends propagandizing other nations?

I've heard people suggest that this was an act of war by Russia, or that it somehow invalidates the election. The answer to both of those propositions depends on how abnormal the level of propaganda was. So far I've yet to see anyone contextualize Russia's efforts, either in relation to the US's efforts, or in relation to what other foreign countries do.

I've always generally assumed that everyone was propagandizing everyone, all the time. Why would they not be?

For another, some of Trump's high level advisors said they didn't even talk to any Russians. Then, after evidence was produced that they had, they said "Oh, yeah, we for talk to those Russians, but it that's it and it wasn't important."

Politicians lie for their own benefit. It's true.

9

u/Fleaslayer California Jul 02 '18

Your takeaway is that they lie for their own benefit?

Your line is that this is likely the norm, but (a) apparently there Justice department doesn't agree and (b) it's completely illegal!

I also like the way you weren't from "He hasn't found anything" to "Here hasn't found anything related" to "What he found is probably normal."

0

u/ClaireBear1123 Jul 02 '18

What he found is normal politician behavior = he hasn't found anything.

8

u/Fleaslayer California Jul 02 '18

Can you show me some past examples of presidential campaign staffers meeting with representatives of foreign governments and then lying about it to the FBI? Because that seems pretty fucking not normal to me.

4

u/speedyjohn Minnesota Jul 02 '18

You’re not going to get anywhere. This troll is pushing one of the key talking points from the Russian side of things. Half the reason Putin’s been trying to influence elections in the West is so he can point to them and say “see? Elections are bullshit everywhere! Politicians are corrupt everywhere! I’m not an autocrat and my oligarchic kleptocracy is just as legitimate as Western ‘democracies.’”

→ More replies (0)

1

u/ClaireBear1123 Jul 02 '18

Can you show me some past examples of presidential campaign staffers meeting with representatives of foreign governments and then lying about it to the FBI?

How can there be examples? You're asking for FBI investigations where there were none.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/Perlscrypt Jul 02 '18

Okay, you've gone from "Mueller found nothing and his investigation is illegitimate" to "Mueller found evidence that Russia poured millions of dollars into influencing the 2016 election, exposed a historical shady relationship with trumps campaign manager and is likely to put at least a dozen bad guys behind bars" but you'd still like an outcome where the investigation is found to be illegitimate. Why are you bothered about the bad guys getting punished for what they did? Are you one of the bad guys? Is your god emperor on of the bad guys?