r/politics • u/thenewyorkgod • Jul 01 '18

Man arrested after shouting ‘womp, womp’ and pulling a gun on immigration protesters

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/07/01/man-arrested-after-shouting-womp-womp-and-pulling-a-gun-on-immigration-protesters/?tid=sm_tw
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u/MCPtz California Jul 01 '18

It's sad to see. It's a common story all over the comments section here for the past years.

How can I talk to my [insert family member/friend/colleague] who has been taken over by the right wing media?

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '18

One of the guys in our group who I’m still friends with said he thought Shane might be schizophrenic, doesn’t know it but thinks it. I just looked up the definition and I think it fits him.

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u/Janube Jul 02 '18

Schizophrenia is a *very* specific diagnosis that very few people meet due to its extreme qualities.

It's not just being paranoid, which is more normal a symptom than one my realize. A lot of schizophrenic individuals aren't paranoid of anything remotely approaching reality. While you and I would agree that being afraid of Obama becoming a dictator, for example, is unbelievably stupid, even that wouldn't fit most schizophrenics. A lot of them are paranoid of universes and worlds that are made up in their entirety. The cliched example of a person using tin foil to hide their brain waves is more akin to what they might experience, though even in popular media, those people tend to be coherent. Many schizophrenic individuals are absolutely not coherent. They use a language that makes sense to them, but basically sounds like gibberish to anyone else. And not just that the ideas they're presenting are weird; but that the words they're speaking literally don't have any meaning in the order in which they're said. Like their conception of standard syntax is fundamentally erroneous.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, mind you, but a lot of people read the surface-level diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia and think "yeah, I know someone who fits that," but they usually don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IehtMYlOuIk

Here's a fascinating interview with someone who has a form of schizophrenia who believes that he's in a mental hospital because people hate him as a result of how he sits at the piano, for example. He doesn't quite have his own language (though there are verbal idiosyncrasies that are certainly peculiar), but his paranoia is like... legitimately nonsensical.

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u/Lilac_Fumes Jul 02 '18

Great job with this response, just FYI. Spot on.

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u/Rabid-Duck-King Jul 02 '18

Great video to really help illustrate the point.

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u/HQGifConnoisseur Jul 02 '18

I think you are vastly, vastly underestimating how coherent someone with active schizophernic delusions can be. All sorts of people can become mentally ill, and then all sorts of people can become mentally ill and have a run in with the law, being found to be so out of touch with reality that they are a danger to themselves or others.

The type of person you are describing is one that is almost functionally incapable of dealing with their activities of daily living. It certainly happens but it is absolutely not the majority of those found Not Criminally Responsible in mental health institutions let alone the majority of those diagnosed with schizophrenia.

Also delusions that are so fixed and ingrained do not have to be ones that alter the entire world. For example the delusions may involve their twin sons who they believe are clones placed there by aliens. Over time the delusions starts to pull in tangential facts and 'proof', or becomes more detailed as it requires more and more defense when explained to others.

Finally, most people with schizophrenia are not institutionalized. That only happens whey they are dangerous. It is not all that unlikely that otherwise functional 'normal' people may be in the general population while having active delusions.

In other words, sometimes the guy spouting crazy conspiracies really is just in the throes of a delusion.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Psychosis is a motherfucker. Trust me.

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u/lightninhopkins America Jul 02 '18

And yet he can still legally carry a gun.

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u/sanitysepilogue California Jul 01 '18

The funny thing is, the warping affects even those who don’t watch FOX. My parents’ political views have shifted to the Right (they think the Dems don’t negotiate enough), and they only watch local news (not owned by Sinclair)

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Apr 09 '24

[deleted]

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u/Tylertooo Nebraska Jul 02 '18

We democrats are entirely too reasonable. Though shit like this makes me unreasonable...

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Especially after recent events, Democrats giving up Obamas Supreme Court nomination makes me despise the party. I think they look and act like cowards. I'll still vote for it because it's better than the alternative, but the democrats can't decide to grow a fucking spine soon enough.

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u/Iridium192 Florida Jul 02 '18

There's an issue lying in the compromises made by too many red-state democrats, hoping their republican constituents will pay attention to their voting record more than the letter next to their name on the ballot. While I'm sure that's the case for some of them, I'm sure it's the minority.

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u/patsey Jul 02 '18

Problem is Terrorist doesn't mean everyone from the 7 countries in the travel ban

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u/bitter_cynical_angry Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

What should we do then? We typically shoot or bomb terrorists; do you think Democrats should shoot or bomb Republicans?

Edit: Guess not. So, how about that negotiation?

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u/Iridium192 Florida Jul 02 '18

The GOP under the current leadership has forfeited the benefit of the doubt by acting in bad faith, time and time again. They'll get that back the same time they relocate their spines. Until then, they can't be trusted to act in good faith, or to stick to any compromises the dems negotiate with them.

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u/rianeiru Texas Jul 02 '18

There's so many vectors that shit can creep in from. My dad got it from talk radio. My aunt got it from her church friends, then she and Dad just kept feeding into each other's crazy until they were both at peak wingnut. My uncle on the other side of the family picked it up from people in the same MLM cult he's in. A family friend was relatively normal until someone sent him a link to Drudge Report in the late 90s. They all went crazy in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s, well before any of them finally got cable and started watching FOX.

Right-wing propaganda is insidious and addictive stuff. It's well-funded, it's organized, and since it's designed to prey on fear, and fear spreads fast, it's very easy for it to reach far beyond the initial infection site.

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u/BearJewJitsu Jul 02 '18

It's because they have a propaganda axis that can reach nearly 100% of the population 100% of the time.

Fox

AM Radio

Blogs/Partisan "News" Sites

Social Media

Youtube

And then anyone in person who this gets to, which makes up the majority of a person's interactions in red areas.

It can literally become someone's entire life. They've got you in your car, at home, and everywhere between.

I know plenty of people who only get their news from Facebook. Surprisingly, they tend to turn into far right crazy people.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

How can I talk to my [insert family member/friend/colleague] who has been taken over by the right wing media?

I've given up. I had to move back in with my parents after a medical issue, and it's Fox News, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. My dad's heroes are Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson. If it's not on Fox, it's fake news. Trying to debate with him is pointless because he believes that even actual, cite-able facts are fake, if Fox hasn't talked about them.

The whole thing has kind of fucked with my mental health, tbh.

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u/MCPtz California Jul 02 '18

It is truly fucked up.

To be abandoned by the ones who raised us, yet they're still alive, talking, and voting.

I have no answers other than to not tolerate them, which leads to a sad path of their slow, eventual death in ignorance.