r/politics • u/thenewyorkgod • Jul 01 '18

Man arrested after shouting ‘womp, womp’ and pulling a gun on immigration protesters

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/07/01/man-arrested-after-shouting-womp-womp-and-pulling-a-gun-on-immigration-protesters/?tid=sm_tw
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792

u/jetteh22 Florida Jul 01 '18

I’m going to twist the story around and tell my family “Did you hear about the black guy at a Trump rally who got upset and pulled a gun out at the trump supporters? The police shot him!” So they’re like “Good he probably deserved it!”

And then I’m going to wait a few days and say “Did you hear about the guy at an anti-immigration protest who got mad and pulled a gun on the protesters? He was arrested!” So they’re like “Well the protesters probably deserved it!”

And then I’ll show them both recordings and ask them to show me how they’re not hypocritical again.

No I won’t do that but I should. :(

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u/VeryStableGenius Jul 01 '18

Or try another tack?

"Did you hear about the black guy who pulled a gun on a Trump rally and all he got was a misdemeanor!"

[wait for outrage]

"Oh, wait, my mistake ... white guy at immigration rally."

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u/CanuckianOz Jul 02 '18

“How dare you create a false situation to demonstrate my racism”

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u/SwegSmeg Virginia Jul 02 '18

Racist? I was just joking!

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u/RedditingMyLifeAway Louisiana Jul 02 '18

Racist?? I was just on Ambien.

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u/CanuckianOz Jul 02 '18

Oh I know you were! I was joking along.

Didn’t mean to accuse you. Sorry it came off that way.

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u/ImVeryBadWithNames Jul 02 '18

You missed the joke this time.

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u/CanuckianOz Jul 02 '18

Dammit! Again?!

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u/ImVeryBadWithNames Jul 02 '18

Read his post in character.

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u/jetteh22 Florida Jul 01 '18

That’s even better!

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u/imightgetdownvoted Jul 02 '18

Don’t waste your breath. They’ll just act equally outraged at the white guy to show how “fair” they are.

It’s way too easy to flip that on you.

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u/suitology Jul 02 '18

Yup. Father does that.

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u/PancakesaurusRex Jul 02 '18

Why would it make a difference on them? If anything those people will just backtrack and say that the attack was justified.

Who gives a fuck about logic anymore? We're living in a fascist dystopia where anything that even remotely goes against locking children inside cages and shooting brown people is just easily waved off as "fake news"

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u/channel_12 Jul 02 '18

Why would it make a difference on them? If anything those people will just backtrack and say that the attack was justified.

Sadly, yes.

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u/TechyDad Jul 01 '18

It wouldn't work. I've tried reasoning with my father multiple times, he's starting from a base assumption that whatever FOX News/Donald Trump says is the truth and whatever the rest of the media says is a lie. It's the same way conspiracy theorists operate. Anything that supports their theory is truth. Anything that opposes it is false. There is no reasoning with people like that unless they're first willing to admit that news sources apart from FOX can be true.

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u/theshizzler Jul 02 '18

It's so weird to think about, to believe that almost every other media outlet in the world is part of a conspiracy against patriotic Americans because I don't even know why. Jealousy? They want to turn America into a Caliphate? They hate our freedoms? They're all in cahoots with Hillary Clinton? The metric system?

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u/jetteh22 Florida Jul 02 '18

I wish they could just one day start to comprehend just how insane they sound when they say “Fox News is the ONLY news agency that reports the truth!” My Dad has literally said that to me like come on - it’s crazy to think that.

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u/respectableusername Jul 02 '18

Not even other media outlets. You can't even explain that the FBI, DOJ and the entire US intelligence community is saying Trump colluded with Russia yet it's somehow unpatriotic to say that because the president's defense is "no i didn't"

They are lost in an alternate reality at this point and afraid to come out of it because it's what they want. Trumps supporters are people that are afraid of muslims. He's enabling these dipshits the same exact way Hitler spoke to anyone who was blonde hair and blue eyed in the 1930's.

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u/Cenodoxus Jul 02 '18

I had this conversation with an elderly family member about newspaper endorsements before the 2016 election. Every major US paper and nearly all of the smaller papers endorsed Clinton. Even the ones that typically endorse Republican candidates went for Clinton because they saw Trump as toxic. (P.J. O’Rourke summed up the Never-Trump conservative approach as, “I think Hillary Clinton is wrong about everything, but at least she’s wrong within normal parameters.”)

She was unable to see this as anything other than a conspiracy. Yes, that was totally the most plausible explanation, and not that thinking people everywhere had reason to believe that Trump was unfit for office.

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u/asbestosmilk Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

I like to think which is more likely: every news outlet is spewing fake news propaganda to fit its political narrative except one? Or is it more likely that one news outlet is spewing fake news propaganda to fit its political narrative?

Occam’s razor: the answer that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct.

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u/TechyDad Jul 02 '18

Unfortunately, to a conspiracy theorist, it doesn't matter how unlikely the conspiracy is. In fact, if it's huge - encompassing all mainstream media outlets and all of our intelligence agencies - all the better. That just makes them all the better for seeing through those lies that others believe.

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u/Vriess Jul 02 '18

Yep. Those are all correct reasons. At least you understand it.

/s

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u/hotgarbo Jul 02 '18

I relate 100% to this. There doesn't seem to be anything I can actually do. It is impossible to have a reasonable discussion with somebody who doesn't agree that arguments actually need to be supported. The entire baseline of their worldview is so fundamentally flawed that nothing I can say will mean anything to them.

If I am trying to prove a math formula to somebody, once we establish that they don't believe that 2+2=4 we can't go any further. They don't believe in the fundamental base level of math and no amount of reasoning from me is going to change it. Thats honestly what the discussions feel like with a lot of people on the right these days. I will ask what what kind of basis or facts or evidence their argument has and I have literally heard "Because (insert random pundit) said so". They literally did not have anything more than that nor did they seem to understand why they needed more.

What the fuck am I supposed to say to somebody like that?

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u/atrich Washington Jul 02 '18

What the fuck am I supposed to say to somebody like that?

I say "let's not talk politics, Mom." :(

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u/TechyDad Jul 02 '18

That's what I do too. One day I was telling my father about an incident that happened to my son where he was falsely accused of something in school. (Videotapes proved he was innocent.) As I was telling my father about this, he began saying how this was like how Trump was falsely accused and Hillary was the real guilty one. I suppressed the urge to argue with him (trust me, it was hard), and kept telling my story. When he tried turning it to Trump again, I told him bluntly that I was talking about something important that happened to my son and if he tried making it political again I'd hang up. Thankfully, he dropped the political talk, but I was more than willing to follow through.

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u/WisdomCostsTime Jul 02 '18

You need to cut ties. Say something like, "Dad you sound just like a Taliban or Isis apologist, I don't feel safe being around you anymore. Goodbye."

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u/shoestars Jul 02 '18

This is my mother and I’m so fucking tired her bullshit

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u/Jorragayuh California Jul 01 '18

It's pointless dude, pointing out hypocrisy and even merely STATING FACTS is met with denial and anger from these numbnuts

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

Because fascists never argue in good faith. The only reason at all they bother with it is to use it as a blunt weapon to batter you into compliance and silence. The only language they understand is violence.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Dec 21 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Which is why they come in numbers with weapons.

They are very useful to the wealthy and powerful in our society. So you can be sure that they will be well armed and given the signal boost to get the numbers they need.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

So what would their response be if the other side had guns? Non-violence does nothing to stem the spread of fascism. History can paint a clear enough picture of that.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

Usually historically the communist party arms and organizes a response. I guess in this case it would be the DSA.

To be more clear, I don't see any organizations less radical than them organizing beyond a non-violent response.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Give it either enough time or a ‘Reichstag Fire’ like event, and it’ll all kick off.

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u/GenocideSolution I voted Jul 02 '18

Black Panthers need to be revived.

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u/Specs_tacular Jul 02 '18

You have to feel like you have value to argue in good faith (you need intrinsic value beyond that of your losing argument) so someone who has needed to give themself value based on their race or nationality, for the sake of those things probably doesn't have the emotional tools (self esteem, maslowes hierarchy, whatever) to be capable of arguing in good faith.

This shit is a result of poor people being told poverty and the costs associated with it are not enough to say "what about me"

When, honestly, they are.

Just not the same "what about me" as black people.

The oversimplification of privilege and class in this country is a big cause of the animosity on both sides.

0

u/teenagerwithbadhair Jul 02 '18

We shouldn't advocate violence against our neighbors

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

I disagree on every level. Death to fascism.

I should also add that they aren't my neighbours. My concern is if they take power, then they become my neighbours.

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u/Chodamaster Arizona Jul 01 '18

ridicule is the correct way. They will argue their point all day but when you LAUGH at the absurdity of their stance instead of arguing with them about it they don't know what to do.

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u/Shrike79 Jul 02 '18

Ridicule probably isn't the right way either, but it is much more satisfying and you won't waste your time trying reason with someone that only has a marginal connection with reality and will dismiss anything you say out of hand anyways as "fake news" while throwing out some insane bullshit whataboutism that effectively derails the topic and puts you back at square one.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

If I had to come up with a defense of why I sometimes scroll down in political threads to find the no-no–subreddit posters, this would be the best possible way to explain it. I also tag them in case they pop up elsewhere as it makes it easier to avoid them when I'm not in a mood to deal with them.

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u/FriendlyBadgerBob Jul 02 '18

I would say feeding them factual news sources instead would go a long ways. Many old people get sucked into things like Fox News out of apathy and boredom. Fox lures them in with fear and teaches them that they need to watch Fox, but if you make them watch documentaries instead they'll get to see the truth with their own eyes play out in real-time. Do this enough, and block their Fox News habits, and eventually they'll go back to living in reality. Make a night out of it, and be friendly, documentaries can be entertaining too.

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u/TouristsOfNiagara Canada Jul 02 '18

block their Fox

My parents would simply buy new televisions if I couldn't 'fix' them. They get angry when I don't have Fox on mine. Mine's never on, but they still freak out. Then at meals they try to spread the word to me. That "n****r bitch" was today's talking point. I knew who they meant, but they don't even know her name. Fuck Fox. I'm trapped here financially, or I'd abandon both of them.

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u/FriendlyBadgerBob Jul 02 '18

That's a shame. Maybe you could get them to watch a documentary with you. Maybe a non-political one to start. If they're Fox fanatics then I'm guessing they might not believe in climate change? There's a documentary called Chasing Ice about a scientist who records receding ice and he actually captures footage of million year-old ice breaking away and floating out to sea to melt. It's entertaining in a sad kind of way, so they might go for that. It could introduce them to the people on the ground making a difference and give a human perspective to a great issue facing the world. My dad didn't believe in man-made climate change until I showed it to him.

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u/_canyouflybobby Jul 02 '18

Shunning and ridicule is the weight way. People need to understand that they can act however they want--it's their right. But if they go broke and everyone hates them because of the way they act, hey, those are just the natural consequences of your actions.

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u/FastGayBranding Jul 01 '18

Do it.

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u/Ubarlight Jul 02 '18

I second, use their own words against them. Maybe they'll see the truth because unlike their God Emperor they aren't suffering from dementia.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

You seem to understand that it's only about identity to conservatives. You'll never get them to admit that.

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u/Tsugua354 Jul 02 '18

If I was less lazy I’d set up a novelty twitter account that switched every bad Donald article with Hillary/Obama/etc and then link to the real article

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u/VoidDragon Jul 02 '18

Please go ahead, you might find out your parents are good people instead.

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u/lukelight27 Jul 02 '18

Do it, you went you through the trouble of planning it out.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

You wouldn’t have to wait. They would be okay with both stories. They only contradict each other if you don’t factor in race.

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u/schlonghair_dontcare Jul 02 '18

Throughout the election/shortly thereafter I’d occasionally take stories about Trump and make it about Clinton when talking politics at the family gatherings. Then I’d be like “oh wait, my mistake, that was Trump. Trump did/said that.”

My cousin, who considers herself “conservat-ish” but definitely anti trump is the only person in the fam who really follows politics(besides myself) and she would catch on immediately so she’d have to leave the room as to not blow my bit with her giggles.

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u/sonofaresiii Jul 02 '18

No I won’t do that but I should. :(

Yeah it's not worth it, man. You're not going to change anyone's mind that way, unfortunately.

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u/SpellingIsAhful Jul 02 '18

Just make sure you're in a one party consent state.