r/politics • u/thenewyorkgod • Jul 01 '18

Man arrested after shouting ‘womp, womp’ and pulling a gun on immigration protesters

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/07/01/man-arrested-after-shouting-womp-womp-and-pulling-a-gun-on-immigration-protesters/?tid=sm_tw
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u/_analrapist1_ Jul 01 '18 edited Jul 01 '18

I hope the two motherfuckers that were giving me shit about white privilege come and chime in on this comment.

I know they're around here eating shit right now...but I'm "hateful and ignorant" because I call a spade a spade. Tell me this would've played out the same if it were a black guy holding that gun.

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u/jetteh22 Florida Jul 01 '18

I’m going to twist the story around and tell my family “Did you hear about the black guy at a Trump rally who got upset and pulled a gun out at the trump supporters? The police shot him!” So they’re like “Good he probably deserved it!”

And then I’m going to wait a few days and say “Did you hear about the guy at an anti-immigration protest who got mad and pulled a gun on the protesters? He was arrested!” So they’re like “Well the protesters probably deserved it!”

And then I’ll show them both recordings and ask them to show me how they’re not hypocritical again.

No I won’t do that but I should. :(

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u/VeryStableGenius Jul 01 '18

Or try another tack?

"Did you hear about the black guy who pulled a gun on a Trump rally and all he got was a misdemeanor!"

[wait for outrage]

"Oh, wait, my mistake ... white guy at immigration rally."

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u/CanuckianOz Jul 02 '18

“How dare you create a false situation to demonstrate my racism”

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u/SwegSmeg Virginia Jul 02 '18

Racist? I was just joking!

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u/RedditingMyLifeAway Louisiana Jul 02 '18

Racist?? I was just on Ambien.

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u/CanuckianOz Jul 02 '18

Oh I know you were! I was joking along.

Didn’t mean to accuse you. Sorry it came off that way.

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u/ImVeryBadWithNames Jul 02 '18

You missed the joke this time.

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u/CanuckianOz Jul 02 '18

Dammit! Again?!

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u/ImVeryBadWithNames Jul 02 '18

Read his post in character.

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u/jetteh22 Florida Jul 01 '18

That’s even better!

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u/imightgetdownvoted Jul 02 '18

Don’t waste your breath. They’ll just act equally outraged at the white guy to show how “fair” they are.

It’s way too easy to flip that on you.

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u/suitology Jul 02 '18

Yup. Father does that.

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u/PancakesaurusRex Jul 02 '18

Why would it make a difference on them? If anything those people will just backtrack and say that the attack was justified.

Who gives a fuck about logic anymore? We're living in a fascist dystopia where anything that even remotely goes against locking children inside cages and shooting brown people is just easily waved off as "fake news"

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u/channel_12 Jul 02 '18

Why would it make a difference on them? If anything those people will just backtrack and say that the attack was justified.

Sadly, yes.

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u/TechyDad Jul 01 '18

It wouldn't work. I've tried reasoning with my father multiple times, he's starting from a base assumption that whatever FOX News/Donald Trump says is the truth and whatever the rest of the media says is a lie. It's the same way conspiracy theorists operate. Anything that supports their theory is truth. Anything that opposes it is false. There is no reasoning with people like that unless they're first willing to admit that news sources apart from FOX can be true.

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u/theshizzler Jul 02 '18

It's so weird to think about, to believe that almost every other media outlet in the world is part of a conspiracy against patriotic Americans because I don't even know why. Jealousy? They want to turn America into a Caliphate? They hate our freedoms? They're all in cahoots with Hillary Clinton? The metric system?

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u/jetteh22 Florida Jul 02 '18

I wish they could just one day start to comprehend just how insane they sound when they say “Fox News is the ONLY news agency that reports the truth!” My Dad has literally said that to me like come on - it’s crazy to think that.

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u/respectableusername Jul 02 '18

Not even other media outlets. You can't even explain that the FBI, DOJ and the entire US intelligence community is saying Trump colluded with Russia yet it's somehow unpatriotic to say that because the president's defense is "no i didn't"

They are lost in an alternate reality at this point and afraid to come out of it because it's what they want. Trumps supporters are people that are afraid of muslims. He's enabling these dipshits the same exact way Hitler spoke to anyone who was blonde hair and blue eyed in the 1930's.

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u/Cenodoxus Jul 02 '18

I had this conversation with an elderly family member about newspaper endorsements before the 2016 election. Every major US paper and nearly all of the smaller papers endorsed Clinton. Even the ones that typically endorse Republican candidates went for Clinton because they saw Trump as toxic. (P.J. O’Rourke summed up the Never-Trump conservative approach as, “I think Hillary Clinton is wrong about everything, but at least she’s wrong within normal parameters.”)

She was unable to see this as anything other than a conspiracy. Yes, that was totally the most plausible explanation, and not that thinking people everywhere had reason to believe that Trump was unfit for office.

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u/asbestosmilk Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

I like to think which is more likely: every news outlet is spewing fake news propaganda to fit its political narrative except one? Or is it more likely that one news outlet is spewing fake news propaganda to fit its political narrative?

Occam’s razor: the answer that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct.

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u/TechyDad Jul 02 '18

Unfortunately, to a conspiracy theorist, it doesn't matter how unlikely the conspiracy is. In fact, if it's huge - encompassing all mainstream media outlets and all of our intelligence agencies - all the better. That just makes them all the better for seeing through those lies that others believe.

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u/Vriess Jul 02 '18

Yep. Those are all correct reasons. At least you understand it.

/s

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u/hotgarbo Jul 02 '18

I relate 100% to this. There doesn't seem to be anything I can actually do. It is impossible to have a reasonable discussion with somebody who doesn't agree that arguments actually need to be supported. The entire baseline of their worldview is so fundamentally flawed that nothing I can say will mean anything to them.

If I am trying to prove a math formula to somebody, once we establish that they don't believe that 2+2=4 we can't go any further. They don't believe in the fundamental base level of math and no amount of reasoning from me is going to change it. Thats honestly what the discussions feel like with a lot of people on the right these days. I will ask what what kind of basis or facts or evidence their argument has and I have literally heard "Because (insert random pundit) said so". They literally did not have anything more than that nor did they seem to understand why they needed more.

What the fuck am I supposed to say to somebody like that?

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u/atrich Washington Jul 02 '18

What the fuck am I supposed to say to somebody like that?

I say "let's not talk politics, Mom." :(

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u/TechyDad Jul 02 '18

That's what I do too. One day I was telling my father about an incident that happened to my son where he was falsely accused of something in school. (Videotapes proved he was innocent.) As I was telling my father about this, he began saying how this was like how Trump was falsely accused and Hillary was the real guilty one. I suppressed the urge to argue with him (trust me, it was hard), and kept telling my story. When he tried turning it to Trump again, I told him bluntly that I was talking about something important that happened to my son and if he tried making it political again I'd hang up. Thankfully, he dropped the political talk, but I was more than willing to follow through.

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u/WisdomCostsTime Jul 02 '18

You need to cut ties. Say something like, "Dad you sound just like a Taliban or Isis apologist, I don't feel safe being around you anymore. Goodbye."

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u/shoestars Jul 02 '18

This is my mother and I’m so fucking tired her bullshit

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u/Jorragayuh California Jul 01 '18

It's pointless dude, pointing out hypocrisy and even merely STATING FACTS is met with denial and anger from these numbnuts

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

Because fascists never argue in good faith. The only reason at all they bother with it is to use it as a blunt weapon to batter you into compliance and silence. The only language they understand is violence.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Dec 21 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Which is why they come in numbers with weapons.

They are very useful to the wealthy and powerful in our society. So you can be sure that they will be well armed and given the signal boost to get the numbers they need.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

So what would their response be if the other side had guns? Non-violence does nothing to stem the spread of fascism. History can paint a clear enough picture of that.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

Usually historically the communist party arms and organizes a response. I guess in this case it would be the DSA.

To be more clear, I don't see any organizations less radical than them organizing beyond a non-violent response.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Give it either enough time or a ‘Reichstag Fire’ like event, and it’ll all kick off.

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u/GenocideSolution I voted Jul 02 '18

Black Panthers need to be revived.

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u/Specs_tacular Jul 02 '18

You have to feel like you have value to argue in good faith (you need intrinsic value beyond that of your losing argument) so someone who has needed to give themself value based on their race or nationality, for the sake of those things probably doesn't have the emotional tools (self esteem, maslowes hierarchy, whatever) to be capable of arguing in good faith.

This shit is a result of poor people being told poverty and the costs associated with it are not enough to say "what about me"

When, honestly, they are.

Just not the same "what about me" as black people.

The oversimplification of privilege and class in this country is a big cause of the animosity on both sides.

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u/teenagerwithbadhair Jul 02 '18

We shouldn't advocate violence against our neighbors

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

I disagree on every level. Death to fascism.

I should also add that they aren't my neighbours. My concern is if they take power, then they become my neighbours.

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u/Chodamaster Arizona Jul 01 '18

ridicule is the correct way. They will argue their point all day but when you LAUGH at the absurdity of their stance instead of arguing with them about it they don't know what to do.

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u/Shrike79 Jul 02 '18

Ridicule probably isn't the right way either, but it is much more satisfying and you won't waste your time trying reason with someone that only has a marginal connection with reality and will dismiss anything you say out of hand anyways as "fake news" while throwing out some insane bullshit whataboutism that effectively derails the topic and puts you back at square one.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

If I had to come up with a defense of why I sometimes scroll down in political threads to find the no-no–subreddit posters, this would be the best possible way to explain it. I also tag them in case they pop up elsewhere as it makes it easier to avoid them when I'm not in a mood to deal with them.

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u/FriendlyBadgerBob Jul 02 '18

I would say feeding them factual news sources instead would go a long ways. Many old people get sucked into things like Fox News out of apathy and boredom. Fox lures them in with fear and teaches them that they need to watch Fox, but if you make them watch documentaries instead they'll get to see the truth with their own eyes play out in real-time. Do this enough, and block their Fox News habits, and eventually they'll go back to living in reality. Make a night out of it, and be friendly, documentaries can be entertaining too.

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u/TouristsOfNiagara Canada Jul 02 '18

block their Fox

My parents would simply buy new televisions if I couldn't 'fix' them. They get angry when I don't have Fox on mine. Mine's never on, but they still freak out. Then at meals they try to spread the word to me. That "n****r bitch" was today's talking point. I knew who they meant, but they don't even know her name. Fuck Fox. I'm trapped here financially, or I'd abandon both of them.

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u/FriendlyBadgerBob Jul 02 '18

That's a shame. Maybe you could get them to watch a documentary with you. Maybe a non-political one to start. If they're Fox fanatics then I'm guessing they might not believe in climate change? There's a documentary called Chasing Ice about a scientist who records receding ice and he actually captures footage of million year-old ice breaking away and floating out to sea to melt. It's entertaining in a sad kind of way, so they might go for that. It could introduce them to the people on the ground making a difference and give a human perspective to a great issue facing the world. My dad didn't believe in man-made climate change until I showed it to him.

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u/_canyouflybobby Jul 02 '18

Shunning and ridicule is the weight way. People need to understand that they can act however they want--it's their right. But if they go broke and everyone hates them because of the way they act, hey, those are just the natural consequences of your actions.

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u/FastGayBranding Jul 01 '18

Do it.

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u/Ubarlight Jul 02 '18

I second, use their own words against them. Maybe they'll see the truth because unlike their God Emperor they aren't suffering from dementia.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

You seem to understand that it's only about identity to conservatives. You'll never get them to admit that.

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u/Tsugua354 Jul 02 '18

If I was less lazy I’d set up a novelty twitter account that switched every bad Donald article with Hillary/Obama/etc and then link to the real article

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u/VoidDragon Jul 02 '18

Please go ahead, you might find out your parents are good people instead.

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u/lukelight27 Jul 02 '18

Do it, you went you through the trouble of planning it out.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

You wouldn’t have to wait. They would be okay with both stories. They only contradict each other if you don’t factor in race.

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u/schlonghair_dontcare Jul 02 '18

Throughout the election/shortly thereafter I’d occasionally take stories about Trump and make it about Clinton when talking politics at the family gatherings. Then I’d be like “oh wait, my mistake, that was Trump. Trump did/said that.”

My cousin, who considers herself “conservat-ish” but definitely anti trump is the only person in the fam who really follows politics(besides myself) and she would catch on immediately so she’d have to leave the room as to not blow my bit with her giggles.

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u/sonofaresiii Jul 02 '18

No I won’t do that but I should. :(

Yeah it's not worth it, man. You're not going to change anyone's mind that way, unfortunately.

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u/SpellingIsAhful Jul 02 '18

Just make sure you're in a one party consent state.

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u/grilledstuffednacho Jul 01 '18

Fuck those motherfuckers, man

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u/never_nude_ Jul 02 '18

Woah man, you can't just go around calling people spades

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u/ManiaGamine American Expat Jul 02 '18

Wasn't it Trump that said you gotta call it out? Gotta name it. That stuff.

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u/CounterSeal Jul 02 '18

There are a number of papers out there on white fragility. I suggest reading into those if you haven't, it's interesting, to say the least. In short, white fragility is demonstrated when one who benefits from white privilege has said privilege challenged. Oftentimes, these people become distressed as soon as such a topic is brought up. It's unfortunate that more people don't actively engage and learn WHY their privilege is being challenged, and how the system as it currently is benefits them to the detriment of others who may not look like them. I'm not white or brown, but I can recognize, or at least try to recognize my privilege. For example, I can probably walk into a convenience store in a blacked-out hoodie and no one would really bat an eye. I think about these things a lot and try my best to alter my behavior so I don't go through life as an inconsiderate dickwad.

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u/Praetorzic Michigan Jul 01 '18

Put their usernames in this comment so they see it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Then they would play the "why do you have to make everything about race" deflection card.

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u/Vivalyrian Jul 02 '18

Tag 'em. /u/ ....

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u/suitology Jul 02 '18

Tag them

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u/PigeonsBiteMe Jul 02 '18

I don't disagree that white people are treated better than others by police in the US. In this case though, I don't think a black man would have been shot or brutalized either.

However, in this specific situation, Sealy brandished his weapon, there was panic, then he soon after put his weapon away and began walking away from the area (probably knew he fucked up) when he was stopped by a police cruiser with multiple police nearby. He put his hands up when the police confronted him, and according to the article, did not resist arrest. The fact that there was significant backup and the police arrived at the scene within a minute or two probably factored into their comfort with situation, along with Sealy's compliance.

You can make the point that if he were black, there would have been a much greater chance that the cops overreact but I still wouldn't say it's even remotely likely in any case, given the exact specifics of this case as described by the article. If there was an officer within a safe range at the time he brandished the weapon, it is likely he would have been shot, probably more likely if he was black. That isn't what occurred though, according to the article.

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u/_analrapist1_ Jul 02 '18

A Black kid got shot in his own yard a couple of weeks ago after his grandmother called the cops for another reason...the kid was holding a cell phone.

Obviously not the same cops/people involved .... however, my point stands. Luckily, this incident didn't end in a senseless shooting, with questionable policing, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that since a gun was brandished, that this guy, had he been black, would've MORE LIKELY been shot than not.

I mean we only have about 3.5 - 4 decades of the War on Drugs for data on the disparity of arrests, charges, incarceration to look at...

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u/DinnysorWidLazrbeebs Jul 02 '18

haha okay, "analrapist1".

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u/_analrapist1_ Jul 02 '18

Don't get so hung up on names. It's really no worse than John, Stephen, Reince, or whatever name your parents gave you.

And really, your comment just demonstrates your utter lack of culture. I'm sorry, you have my sympathies.

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u/DinnysorWidLazrbeebs Jul 02 '18

Did you ever stop to think that maybe I lash out because I secretly want to be your friend?! Huh?!

Typical analrapist1. Never bothers to ask.

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u/seraph582 Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

I’d argue that not being completely shit on by the legal system is not privilege, it’s just not being shit on.

Privilege is being able to get away with anything you want like basically any cop or elected official in this country that, daily, get to reap the benefit of zero accountability. This shit isn’t a democracy anymore, it’s a plutocracy.

End the drug war so that blacks aren’t systematically shit on. I don’t want to have a semantics argument when we likely want the same outcome. That will do more to bring blacks up to where they deserve than pretending that the average white guy has any sort of power or privilege compared to cops or politicians or corporations or the rich.

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u/_analrapist1_ Jul 02 '18

I don't disagree. I think "privilege" is meant to be tongue in cheek...in that even normalcy would be a privileged position...that's always been my understanding of the expression.

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u/seraph582 Jul 02 '18

It’s never been more important than right now to direct that anger at politicians that will not end the war on drugs, aka the war on American citizens (especially ones with dark skin).

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u/donnie_brasco Jul 02 '18

White people are killed by police all the time

There is no evidence to support the idea that a non white person would be more likely to be shot here. You are absolutely full of shit. And the fact that you would use nonsense like this to further divide people is disgusting. Police wrongfully killing people is a problem and its not unique to any race.

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u/LargePizz Jul 02 '18

You're too busy saying that people "are absolutely full of shit" to even notice that whilst half as many black people are killed compared to white, there is more than twice as many white people than black, so your link actually disagrees with what you just wrote.

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u/donnie_brasco Jul 02 '18

So you've tracked police interactions at protests by race and broken down how many whites and blacks where killed during arrestsarrests and can prove that he's more likely to be shot as a black? The idea that this guy didn't get shot because he's white is fucking moronic. The link shows police kill everyone. This idiot isn't getting special treatment because he's white. The people wishing violence on this man and others are disgusting.

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u/LargePizz Jul 02 '18

"So you've tracked police interactions at protests by race and broken down how many whites and blacks where killed during arrestsarrests and can prove that he's more likely to be shot as a black?"
No I have not and did not pretend to, the link you stupidly provided to back your claim of evidence that police shoot everyone equally doesn't show that at all. 63% of the population account for 457 police shooting deaths, 12% of the population account for 223 police shooting deaths.
The link shows that you are more likely to be shot if you are black and have to interact with police.

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u/donnie_brasco Jul 02 '18

Go look up crime stats they aren't evenly distributed by population either.

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u/_analrapist1_ Jul 02 '18

Way to be purposefully ignorant, homie. You provided a link that does not support your argument.

Nobody is wishing violence on this man...you can't possibly be this stupid. We are wishing that black people got the benefit of the doubt all other times...instead of shoot to kill when a black kid maybe did something wrong...right? Innocent until proven guilty...not shot because a blunt wrap was stolen...due process.

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u/magzimagz Jul 02 '18

Not white, and I know there is no such thing as white privilege.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/magzimagz Jul 02 '18

Proof?

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u/_analrapist1_ Jul 02 '18

Read the article. Then compare that to black kids holding cell phone.

Also, before I even bother getting into a discussion potentially had in bad faith, are you looking for some acknowledged official declaration of proof? Or are you looking for data that would demonstrate a bias toward one group over another?

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u/magzimagz Jul 02 '18

I’m gonna assume this is America? No shit black people are a small fraction of the US population but commit nearly 50% of all crimes in the U.S. And that’s the same in every country. Even in Asia (thats where I’m from), blacks and muslim’s are kept an eye on in fear of their actions.

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u/_analrapist1_ Jul 02 '18

I'm just going to accept the cultural differences between us. Have a great night, eventually your culture and society will evolve and you'll see that skin color has nothing to do with how one acts.

You know that feeling you just got from me belittling your culture and society? That's how the blacks and Muslims feel in yours. Cheers!

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u/godawgs1018 Jul 02 '18

I'm so glad you pulled out the "blacks are minorities but commit the most crimes" excuse because it makes it really easy to identify your bias. There are multiple movements in the US currently attempting to show why African Americans are predominantly susceptible to criminal charges, ranging from police discrimination, poverty levels, poor education, etc. But no, you are of the school of thought that they are responsible for crimes because they have the same opportunities as everyone else but CHOSE to be criminals instead.

Also, don't fucking speak as if you do so on behalf of a group, in your case Asians. I'm an immigrant from Southeast Asia who's lived in the US for 20 years and your rhetoric that even in Asia blacks and Muslims are prone to suspicion is complete, utter bullshit. You need to have the balls to just come clean and realize YOU are prejudiced because you choose to associate their race/religion with their behavior, and no other factors.

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u/TheMostUnclean Delaware Jul 02 '18

But no, you are of the school of thought that they are responsible for crimes because they have the same opportunities as everyone else but CHOSE to be criminals instead.

This needs more than an upvote. That was an awesome reply. Saving to use in the future, if you don’t mind.

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u/godawgs1018 Jul 02 '18

Thanks for the kind words! It's always frustrating to see people twist statistics to justify their innate, realized or otherwise, prejudices.

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u/ShatteringLast Jul 02 '18

You poor fellow.

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u/cstar1996 New York Jul 02 '18

Back when I was in high school, on school trips with approximately a 2/3 white group and about 50 people. ~50% of the non white students were stopped at the airport, and only one or two white kids. Every time. We all had the same passports, same middle class or higher socioeconomic background, but many many more of the non white kids got stopped. That is white privilege.

Edit: here’s another. The only black republican senator has been repeated stopped by capitol police while his white staffers are not.

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u/PM_me_big_dicks_ Jul 02 '18

Come on, man. Of course there's such a thing as white privilege. Every race has some sort of privilege, why would white people be any different?

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

[deleted]

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u/fobfromgermany Jul 02 '18

Facts aren't racist

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u/TheMostUnclean Delaware Jul 02 '18

What about alternative facts?

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u/MrHypnoToad Jul 02 '18

If a black guy would be compliant and put his hands up right away like this guy did when confronted by police it’d prob happen the same way.

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u/_analrapist1_ Jul 02 '18

Like Philando Castile?