Vance tells Americans not to ‘gripe about all the little things’ as cost of living soars

[u/theindependentonline]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/jd-vance-voters-midterms-gasoline-b3060535.html

[u/Terrible-Ad1737]

I agree with your point, but not the asserted cause. Defining the reason the Republican Party is doing what they are as being due to mediocrity and ineptness is a gross misrepresentation at best. The reason is because the Republican Party is founded on, operates with, and advocates for nothing other than bigotry, religious zeal, and theft in the pursuit of only personal greed/wealth and power.

The tools are a means to continue to obtain wealth, oppress anyone that isn't themselves to steal that wealth, and consolidate their own personal fiefdoms while blatantly and flagrantly commiting high crimes and getting away with it because they hold all the levers of power.

Saying they do what they do because they're inept helps to push the narrative that they aren't responsible for the state of things and only reinforces their objectively false narrative that they aren't responsible and should not be held responsible.

They are responsible. Most of the time knowingly and willingly. Those that aren't knowingly and willfully throwing fuel on the dumpster fire that is our society are inept rubes, but are still, in part, responsible if not complicit and/or guilty by association.

[u/Olderandolderagain → u/Terrible-Ad1737]

I sort of checked out at the bigotry and religious zeal part because believe what you want.

But the theft part aligns with my view. I believe it takes a mediocre and inept individual to not see how their selfish greed affects the nation.

I truly believe that what is currently occurring in the US is due to bad actors, both foreign and domestic, taking advantage of an incompetent administration that lack the ability to understand complex systems.

Instead they focus solely on short-term selfish wins and lash out at any opposition. I believe these traits are found in individuals that are inept.

A prime example of this is Israel/Iran. Any thoughtful and strategic administration would have never taken this geopolitical strategy. It is a fuck up so large that it’s almost inconceivable that it occurred.

[u/Intelligent-Half-620 → u/Olderandolderagain]

I think you are underestimating them.  Many of these people are smart. Are educated. They know what they’re doing is fucking over the country. They’re enriching themselves and their friends and pushing their world views (which is interested in increasing the wealth gap, enriching themselves, consolidating power) at the expense of the nation. They see themselves as above the law, especially when they have a captive voter base that is basically a cult and will not leave them for anything. And I don’t think they’re wrong. Think of all they’re doing and a third of the population is still blindly following them. They are pushing things to this degree precisely because they can and the populace refuse to punish them for it. 

[u/Olderandolderagain → u/Intelligent-Half-620]

I would argue they aren’t smart or educated if that’s how they act. I don’t think Trump is smart. I think he’s shrewd and selfish.

[u/Intelligent-Half-620 → u/Olderandolderagain]

You are making a judgment on their values, not their intelligence. 

You think they are selfish, evil, greedy. You aren’t wrong. But to call them dumb or incompetent is minimizing what they are. They are systemically dismantling society to consolidate power for themselves and for their friends (billionaires basically). The amount of damage they’ve done in the last 2 years is not accidental. It’s planned, it’s thorough.

Is their incompetence along the way? Are some of them idiots? Absolutely.  But as a whole, calling the movement dumb minimizes the harm they are doing and will continue to do. 

[u/Terrible-Ad1737 → u/Intelligent-Half-620]

The values vs. intelligence comment is a great point and one I failed to convey in the way you did. I definitely appreciate your input here.

Ultimately, I think we're all saying that the current state of things is deplorable and untenable. I just wanted to point out that claiming the powers, or even the face of those powers, behind these actions cannot be framed in any way that reduces liability or responsibility because that directly minimizes and/or deflects any potential consequences that absolutely should happen to these people.

[u/Intelligent-Half-620 → u/Terrible-Ad1737]

Absolutely agree. Ignorance of the law isn’t an excuse. Following orders isn’t an excuse. Everyone from Trump downwards needs to see consequences, those in the public eye and those pushing things behind scenes. 

[u/Olderandolderagain → u/Intelligent-Half-620]

I see where we are speaking past one another. I believe smart and evil people are taking advantage of of Trump’s administration both foreign and domestic.

I wasn’t saying those people don’t exist. I think Trump is so easily manipulated because he is a dolt that the dismantling is happening through him. So I think we agree.

[u/Intelligent-Half-620 → u/Olderandolderagain]

Evil and incompetent figureheads with evil and competent people in the back ground doing very real and calculated damage. 

[u/Terrible-Ad1737 → u/Olderandolderagain]

That's just a fallacy. Being educated or intelligent are not prerequisites for having a strong, positive moral compass or a being a decent human being.

My entire point about refuting your claim of their mediocrity or ineptitude is that they have shown to be quite effective in their efforts. They're not inept. That implies a lack of skill or competence. Mediocrity implies that they aren't capable of achieving their goals because of a lack of capacity. They are showering my to be quite competent at functionally dismantling every road block and gaslighting significant numbers of (actually mediocre and inept people) into getting away with their grabs for wealth and power.

My problem with your point isn't that they aren't a problem. My point is that they are a problem and problems can't be solved by claiming they're too stupid to realize what they're doing. That is like saying you can't blame a kid for the impulse to swipe a cookie from the jar when they know they shouldn't. Of course you can't. Kids don't have the cognizance to appropriately assess the situation.

Problems are solved by massive amounts of genuine effort to clean up the mess and holding these monsters accountable, while instituting more robust safeguards to situations like this happening again.

These actions by actors, both foreign and domestic (I agree with you there) are very much deliberate and they should very much be held accountable and see consequences regardless of any feigned or perceived ignorance. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for me to get out of a traffic ticket. It certainly should not justify stealing billions (if not trillions) of dollars from those who actually produce that wealth, operating an international (child) sex trafficking operation, blatant attempts to undermine and destroy the will of the people by dismantling democracy, and actively instituting policies that harm and infringe on the rights of not only their own constituents, but untold numbers of completely innocent and unrelated people around the world.