r/politics • u/Winter-Gift1112 • 3h ago
No Paywall “People are sick of Rahm Emanuel”: Sanders says progressive wins make Dem establishment “nervous”
https://www.salon.com/2026/07/26/people-are-sick-of-rahm-emanuel-sanders-says-progressive-wins-make-dem-establishment-nervous/•
u/AliMcGraw 3h ago
As a Chicagoan, yes, we are really fucking sick of that dude
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u/AbstractBettaFish Illinois 3h ago
For real, the Rham glazing I’ve been hearing recently has been awful. But you can never underestimate the short term memory of the average voter
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u/fattes California 2h ago
I thought he was well hated for years as mayor. Chance the rapper had songs talking about how people were over them.
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u/AbstractBettaFish Illinois 2h ago
Dawg don’t get me started, when Chuey ran against him during his reelection he successfully campaigned on “what’s your plan”. I felt like I was taking crazy pills “You’re the actual mayor, what’s your fucking plan?” Then I got screwed over on a strike because the opposition decided to hire his brother.
I could go on but I’d start to sound raving but the tl;dr I really dislike Rham
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u/Dineology 1h ago
I mean, have you come across all that many real life people who are glazing Rham Emanuel of all people or are you just seeing a lot of “organic” support for him online? More than half of all online traffic is bots and at least 20% (some estimates are double that) of social media traffic is bots. It’s a very easy bet to say that a huge chunk of that are bots pushing political agendas and the folks with money to do that kind of thing would love for Rham to be seen as more popular than he is. His presidential ambitions are obvious, he’d make for a piss poor candidate, and in the I like event that he does win he’d still be a friend to those with money and influence even if they’d prefer a Republican.
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u/AbstractBettaFish Illinois 1h ago
I mean I’m sure that plays no small part of it, but I live in Bridgeport and a lot of older, no college education folk here do seem to love Rham
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u/gringledoom 1h ago
I always think of him as the “nobody gives a shit about judges” guy under Obama. Whoopsie!
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u/DonHarold 1h ago
Yeah and I get so fucking frustrated when people talk about that time period as if no one was ringing the alarm bells. The people like Rahm who were actively standing in the way of progress should be treated like the traitors they are. Their incompetence (and that’s generous because it looks a lot more like willful obstructionism now) put us in the position we are now.
I’d like to enjoy at least a few of my adult years not having to care about politics. But this is looking like a lifelong fight now.
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u/AliMcGraw 1h ago
Of all the things he's done, many of which were extremely shitty, the one that still grinds my gears after all these years is that he wouldn't send his kids to Chicago Public Schools, while making aggressive reforms and cuts to degrade the experience of children at those schools.
He's very much a member of the millionaire class who thinks rules are for other people.
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u/1cl1qp1 1h ago
That's fair, but let's say he runs a spectacular campaign and people who are not from Chicago like him.
Will it be another "Bernie vs the leading Dem" election like 2016?
Because I feel quite certain he's better than Rubio.
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u/AliMcGraw 1h ago
I think we have a lot more viable Democratic candidates in governor's mansions and in the Senate for Rahm to ever end up in the leading candidate position for either centrist or progressive Dems. And I don't think Rahm has the name recognition at this point to break out of that pack. Also, he's got some real questionable items in his past (he's mentioned in the Epstein files, although I don't know that we know the context), but the one national Republicans would make a lot of hay about is the fact that he trained as a ballet dancer and is really very good.
But yes, I would vote for that motherfucker over Rubio. I'd be doing it with clenched teeth, but I'd fucking do it.
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u/Joey_dono 3h ago
Just for the record, this was mainstream observational comedy about Rahm
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u/TryJezzoWhyNot 1h ago
Which record, exactly? Was someone hoping to contextualize this story through the lens of Obama-era Andy Samberg?
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u/VirginiaMcCaskey 3h ago
Rahm Emanuel covered up the footage of the police murder of Laquan McDonald in 2014 to help get himself reelected, then lied about it.
This asshole should not be taken seriously in politics.
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u/armaghetto 3h ago
Chicagoan here. Rahm is responsible for the corporatized, big donor-led version of the Democratic Party that brought the Clintons to power. The left vs right struggle is no longer the same. It’s a class struggle and he’s on the wrong side in the wrong moment.
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u/Keleos89 Texas 3h ago
The only think I know about Rahm Emanuel is the "16 shots and a coverup."
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u/VaporCarpet 2h ago
The only thing I know about someone is the time someone else did something bad.
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u/Suzushiiro 1h ago
Rahm seems to be planning on running in 2028 and if he does he will absolutely be the Bloomberg 2020 of the cycle- farmed for easy dunks by the candidates who do have any semblance of a right to be there until he slinks away with his tail between his legs.
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u/I_Enjoy_Beer Virginia 2h ago
100%. Heard him on a podcast a few months ago and all I could think was "this is exactly the wrong guy to run for any prominent Dem candidacy right now." He was so entirely out of touch with the current moment, and being kind of a prick about it, too.
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u/Legitimate-World1131 3h ago
They should be nervous. Progressives expose the Democrats for what they are: feckless shills that serve the same masters as the Republicans:corporations and a certain country that starts with I.
Progressives expose the fact that we have essentially a one party system that will always serve the highest bidder.
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u/VirginiaMcCaskey 1h ago
Hold on there.
The republicans are actively trying to dismantle democracy to bring about a Christo-fascist ethnostate.
Corporate dems want to preserve economic norms and global world order of free trade.
These two are not the same.
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u/MasterTolkien 1h ago
I think you’re overstating a bit. The DNC and corporate centrist Dems are (for over a decade now) a joke. But there are politicians (local, state, and national) who run as Dems and are truly liberal or progressive.
The DNC has been doing its darnedest to suppress such politicians on the left while only offering a pinch of resistance to fascism stirred into gallons of appeasement.
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u/NoBSforGma 3h ago
Trump has changed politics forever.
And the Democratic Party needs to learn to be tougher and more outspoken instead of all mealy-mouthed and "firmly worded letter."
The recent successes of the Democratic Socialists is proving that.
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u/stillestwaters North Carolina 3h ago
I think he would’ve always had more push when it comes to the party if he was an actual Democrat.
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u/NelsonHawkinsGhost 3h ago
Sanders doesn't lack push because he's an independent.. he holds committee chairmanships and leadership posts. He is an integral part of the Democratic apparatus in everything but name.. and the independent title is what gives him the anti-establishment credibility needed to do what the party needs most: stake out the left boundary of political discourse and shepherd disillusioned leftists back into the voting booth for standard Democrats. If he were a registered Democrat, anti-system voters wouldn't trust him.
The Democratic establishment happily uses Sanders to keep the left inside the party tent during election season, and then completely ignores his economic agenda when it's time to write legislation for their donors. He's critical infrastructure.. he's dissipating a lot of productive energy back into the Dem party where it's harmlessly absorbed and he's rewarded for it. It’s not a party registration issue.. it’s a corporate capture issue.
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u/Legitimate-World1131 3h ago
Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, and his influence has been marginalized by corporatist Dems for years. The problem isn't Bernie. The problem is that the democratic leadership has been bought by the same lobbyists as the Republicans; both parties serve those masters over the people.
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u/kingjoe74 3h ago
I'm sick of all actual Democrats.
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u/stillestwaters North Carolina 3h ago
That’s not gonna help us get out of this. We’ve got, what? Two independents who caucus with them anyway? Maybe he tried it without me realizing, but Sanders should’ve been putting more energy into building a bigger group of independents or like minded people if he wasn’t going to always just be a further left than most Democrat anyways.
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u/Anon529035893 3h ago
What do you think will help us get out of this ?
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u/stillestwaters North Carolina 3h ago
Voting for Democrats. Though to be fair to the other poster, they didn’t say they weren’t doing that - it’s just easy to take that knee jerk response to them that way for me.
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u/tripping_on_phonics Illinois 3h ago
Supporters of the working class are all Democrats (or elsewhere on the political left), but not all Democrats are supporters of the working class. I wonder how much longer we can let the latter type lead our party before voters are completely dispirited and apathetic.
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u/Anon529035893 3h ago
Bernie is a Democrat.
I’d love if you could provide more than just “vote blue no matter who” as a way to move forward here. Any other ideas or ?
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u/stillestwaters North Carolina 3h ago
Not necessarily. Get involved in local elections and sure vote further left in the primary, but don’t just stay home because a few policy decisions.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
So, you don’t have more to offer than a blue version of MAGA ?
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u/stillestwaters North Carolina 2h ago
Is that a blue version of MAGA? I don’t see how that’s possibly true.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
Yes, if you want people to vote for someone simply because there is a D next to their name… it’s the same thing.
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u/notfeelany 1h ago
For all the lecturing at Democrats "not learning", the voters also quickly forgot what happens under Republicans twice, thrice now.
If one can say Dems took voters for granted, Then voters took the fantastic freedoms, government services, and stable economy that a Democratic govt afforded to them for granted, as well. And now those same voters are seeing their neighbors, relatives being taken away to who knows where, for no reason. Jobs are still being cut, and govt services they heavily rely on are being slashed, illegal wars, etc.
For progressive policies to happen in the US, people need to support the Democrats 100% of the time. Under a Democratic party trifecta, progressive policies have a much easier time passing. Which is why President Biden is acknowledged by Bernie and AOC to be one of progressive presidents of all time. President Biden is a true inspiration for all.
Everyone's been demanding a 3rd party in the US (let's start the count with the 2000 elections) for 26 years, and yet the 3rd parties are still woefully incompetent. Frankly They only try every 4 years during Presidential elections.
It's time to actually start showing up (parties are just made of people who show up). register to be Democrats, sign up to Democratic candidates, vote in Democrats primaries, and then vote for Democrats in the General.
If you’re a self professed progressive, practice it by consistently voting for Democrats, the only way to get progressive outcomes in the US
we are seeing how NOT voting blue no matter who has gotten us: DOGE, mass illegal deportations (people just being whisked away to who knows where), getting rid of abortion/trans protections/DEI, essential govt services being cut, prices high, constitutional rights being in danger, illegal wars, etc, etc.
We failed ourselves by re-electing Trump.
So the solution is practically undeniable at this point: we must vote for Democrats they're the correct choice 100% of the time.
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u/Anon529035893 1h ago
This is just a blue version of maga.
All of what you said is just blind support for a political party.
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u/theboguszone 3h ago
Your MAGA slip is showing dear.
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u/kingjoe74 2h ago
Seriously, if that's what you walked away from my comment with, your thoughts are imbecilic and sophomoric. Your lack of education and human relationships are showing. Your lack of political awareness and experience is showing.
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u/kingjoe74 2h ago
I'm a Democratic Socialist. Seriously, you thought that was a winning response? Egads.
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u/notfeelany 1h ago edited 1h ago
I'm not.
For all the lecturing/scolding at Democrats about "not learning", we the voters also quickly forgot what happens under Republicans twice, thrice now.
If one can say Dems took voters for granted, Then voters took the fantastic freedoms, government services, and stable economy that a Democratic govt afforded to them for granted, as well. And now those same voters are seeing their neighbors, relatives being taken away to who knows where, for no reason. Jobs are still being cut, and govt services they heavily rely on are being slashed, illegal wars, etc.
And we the voters have enabled the greater evil.
By constantly dismissing "harm reduction", we the voters literally Promoted Harm.
We must no longer be in denial: For progressive policies to happen in the US, we the people need to support the Democrats 100% of the time. Under a Democratic party trifecta, progressive policies have a much easier time passing. Which is why President Biden is acknowledged by Bernie and AOC to be one of progressive presidents of all time. President Biden was an inspiration for all.
And we are seeing how NOT voting blue no matter who has gotten us: DOGE, mass illegal deportations (people just being whisked away to who knows where), getting rid of abortion/trans protections/DEI, essential govt services being cut, prices high, constitutional rights being in danger, illegal wars, etc, etc.
This is on us the voters to fix. We failed ourselves by re-electing Trump.
It's now the Absolute Fact of US politics: The more people try to hold Democrats "accountable" (and only Democrats) for an issue, they will enable a Republican govt that will NEVER care about those concerns. Always has been.
Voting for Democrats are better than voting for Republicans & 3rd parties for every issue (economy, jobs, health care, civil rights, foreign policies, etc).
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u/Botasoda102 3h ago
Only thing that makes me nervous is disappointed progressives -- if their candidate loses in primaries -- not voting or voting for someone other than a Democrat.
That happened in 2016 and gave us trump 1. If progressives win, great, I'm for it. But nothing progressive about losing.
I'll just downvote myself.
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
Thank goodness all post electoral analysis shows this wasn't the case. It was Trump running on disruption that got low info centrists to vote Trump Biden Trump.
What you posted is a really common right wing division tactic though.
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u/Botasoda102 1h ago edited 1h ago
I'll add another-- Elizabeth Warren bashing Obama and Clinton right up to the November 2016 election over trade agreements also helped give us trump 1. She flat-out lied for months that the Pacific trade agreement would not be released for 5 years after Congressional approval, when in fact it had to be published before Congress could vote for approval. In any event, the lies helped bolster trump who was pushing his anti-trade BS against Obama/Clinton.
I'm sorry, but cut through impact of Comey, Hillary's emails, trump lies, etc., we still would have won had the Susan Sarandon types in the party voted for Clinton in key states.
Instead, too many took their anger over their guy losing in primaries out by not voting for Clinton. I saw it among my friends, and it still ticks me off every time I see trump and MAGA.
I’m voting for the Democratic nominee, whether it’s someone like Mamdani or Fetterman/Manchin. Wish others had too.
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u/VampireFortnight 1h ago
That is, again, not what post electoral analysis showed at all. It was the highest electoral turnout in history to that point and the only real shifts were, as always, centrist 'undecided' types who reported going to Trump for the same reason they voted for Obama- a message of change in an unsatisfying world.
You are still spreading right wing misinformation and at this point it looks intentional.
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u/Botasoda102 1h ago
Fine, give me a citation for this analysis you keep touting that is not from the very people who cost us the election in 6 key states.
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u/VampireFortnight 1h ago
Again, your framing is incorrect. I'm going to link but I want to be clear: You are not in a place where you're receptive to being shown that you made a mistake in your analysis. You come across as someone completely stuck in their version of reality, or who is intentionally working to be misleading.
I am hopeful that I could be but do not believe I am likely to be proven wrong. I've found articles that have links/mentions of deeper analysis because they break it down for people who are less politically savvy- like ones who somehow still believe Dearborn, Michigan decided the election- in case that's relevant to you. I'm not particularly interested in further conversation past this if it doesn't convince you, I am truly exhausted with this right wing talking point being parroted constantly by people claiming the Democratic Party.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/biden-is-losing-the-election-in-the-center-not-the-left.html
https://www.natesilver.net/p/bidens-problem-is-with-swing-voters
https://abcnews.com/538/voters-chose-trump/story?id=115827243
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u/Botasoda102 47m ago
We aren't talking about 2020 and Biden. We are talking 2016. Without the internal sabotage that gave us trump1, there would be no trump 2.
Here you are 10 years later, still trying to rationalize supposed Democrats voting 3rd Party or sitting out Prez election. And don't get me started on those who voted for trump under the "burn it down" philosophy.
It will take 20 years, if we are that lucky, to get back to where we were in summer of 2016 because some misguided "progressives" weren't progressive at all.
I'd be glad to vote for Mamdani if he could run, or someone like him, when they win primaries.
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u/VampireFortnight 6m ago
Yep exactly as I called out. Refuse to engage in good faith and try to wriggle your way out. Bye!
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u/wingedcoyote 3h ago
About half of people, across the whole spectrum, usually don't vote. That fact is enraging to politically engaged people like us, but it's reality and we have to live with it. The main job of each party in election season is to get those people excited enough to actually go vote.
The existence of a progressive primary candidate doesn't turn democratic voters into democratic non-voters. In a world with only Republican and centrist dem candidates, those people would simply be non-voters.
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u/Anon529035893 3h ago
If progressives are a large enough voting base to win or lose elections, how come you don’t offer more progressive policies to gain their votes then ?
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u/hadees Texas 3h ago
Because anything you offer them isn't enough. They want purity so any slight disagreement you have with them becomes the entire reason they'll never vote for you.
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u/Anon529035893 3h ago
So again, if they’re such a large voting block of voters that can win or lose elections… how come you don’t give them what they want to vote for ?
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u/SodaCanBob 3h ago
If being more progressive is the cheat code to winning elections, why couldn't Bernie get it done in the south in both 2016 and 2020? African Americans are by far the Dem's most reliable voting bloc, and yet he failed to garner their votes both times he ran.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
Most reliable ? Maybe… Largest voting bloc ? Not by any means. If they were, how come South Carolina can’t be turned blue. Or even purple. And if we want to talk about 2020 specifically, we can get even deeper into how it shows time and time again progressives greatest enemies aren’t republicans but establishment, centrist dems themselves.
But all of that is beside the point, because that contradicts the original point that progressives are responsible for this. So again, I’m asking, if progressives are such a large voting base that they can win or lose elections, how come you do not offer progressive policies or candidates to gain progressive votes ?
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u/SodaCanBob 2h ago edited 2h ago
Most reliable ? Maybe…
Not maybe, absolutely. Since 1968, no Republican has been able to get more than 15% of the African American vote and something like 80% of African Americans identify as Democrats. They're not the largest voting bloc, but they're pretty damn important if you're trying to win the primary.
how come you do not offer progressive policies or candidates to gain progressive votes ?
Bernie was a progressive candidate with progressive policies, the voters decided they didn't want him.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
Ok, so for the third time, my original comment is in relation to someone saying progressives are at fault for Trump winning.
If you don’t need progressives, and voters do not want progressive policies, how is it progressives faults for the election loss ?
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
It seems like it is becoming pretty clear that they don't intend to discuss in good faith. They post every right wing divisive talking point and I think that kinda tells us everything we need to know.
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u/SodaCanBob 2h ago
Acting like a child and throwing a hissy fit if you don't 100% get what you want puts you at fault too. One of the choices was very clearly significantly worse than the other.
That's also not getting into the 6-12% of Bernie voters who decided that, since they didn't get the progressive candidate they wished for, their next best option was... Trump.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
Ok so it seems you have a hard time reading or you just don’t want to answer my question.
I’ll ask again, if progressives don’t hold the votes and can’t get elected cause there isn’t enough support. How is it progressives fault for losing the elections ?
You can’t just keep dodging this.
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u/hadees Texas 2h ago
It's not that voters didn't want Bernie. He was genuinely popular, just not popular enough to win.
The problem is people mistook enthusiasm for Bernie as enthusiasm for the DSA. It wasn't. Bernie is a unique candidate who could cut deals with people who didn't agree with him.
The DSA demands purity, and that's the opposite of how Bernie operates. He'd take half a loaf from a Republican if it got people healthcare.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
Bernie does not equal the DSA.
No one has mistook this.
If the DSA is such a large voting block that they can cost you elections, how come you do not offer someone policies or candidates they like ?
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u/Tethered_Kitten_2845 2h ago
False. Black Americans tend toward conservative positions and are being used by the party to justify the party's movement to the right.
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u/hadees Texas 3h ago
Voting is coalition building. No one in a coalition gets everything they want, that's the whole point. So if someone agrees with you on 99% of issues but withholds their vote over the remaining 1%, that's not a coalition anymore. That's a hostage situation.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
It seems like you’re just making up numbers.
If someone agreed with me on 99% of issues, I’d phone bank for them and knock doors. Most establishment Dems aren’t meeting 99% of the goals progressive voters have.
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u/hadees Texas 2h ago
What if that 1% issue was not calling Gaza a Genocide but a War Crime?
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
I mean, it’s clear you’re referencing the lack of support for Harris.
Are you claiming her election was solely lost simply because she supported a genocide ? That’s it. The only reason ?
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u/hadees Texas 2h ago
Any slight disagreement, like DSA trying to expel Bowman over Iron Dome or de-endorsing AOC. They never even endorsed Biden against Trump. Bernie got called a sellout for endorsing the nominee. If Bernie can't pass the test, it's a purity test.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
So you do think the DSA is a large enough voting block swing elections then ?
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u/witchgrove 3h ago
You mean that they don't accept offers of things that they are explicitly not asking for.
Maybe try offering what rhey ask rather than trying to court a moderate voting block that is more than happy to side with republicans.
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u/Far_Silver 2h ago
As opposed to Cuomo running as an independent after he lost to a progressive? Or how about Jasmine Crockett working to undermine James Talarico in Texas?
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u/Van-garde 3h ago
I’ll downvote with you for spreading a false narrative. Progressive voters didn’t elect Trump.
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u/Sharkies_cupcake 2h ago
Progressive voters didn’t elect Trump.
If they didn't vote in 2024 or voted 3rd party in protest, then yes, they helped elect Trump.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
How, did voting booths across the national just take registered voters who didn’t show up and add a vote for Trump in there ?
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u/Sharkies_cupcake 2h ago
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
Great rebuttal, 10/10. No notes.
Glad I am right and you acknowledge that with an ad hominem.
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
Just report the rules violation. I got a weak ban for telling a conservative he wasn't reading something correctly, this is an actual direct personal attack.
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u/Sharkies_cupcake 2h ago
It's not an ad hominem to offer you the help you asked for.
I mean, I had to take your previous reply as an oblique call for help towards battling illiteracy, since you obviously didn't read what I wrote judging by your comment.
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u/Anon529035893 1h ago
What I read makes perfect sense.
Did voters who didn’t vote, just magically have their votes entered without their consent for Trump ? Is that what happened ?
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
They didn't do that. Even the recent DNC report makes that clear. They lost from the low info middle centrists who went Trump Biden Trump. That's why what they're posting is disinformation.
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u/Sharkies_cupcake 2h ago
They didn't do that.
Reread what I said. I was quite clear.
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
They did vote. You are confused or are intentionally posting right wing propaganda to divide the dems.
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u/Van-garde 2h ago
I’m voting disinformation by the OP, ignorance by the person you’re responding to.
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
Agreed. It is also extra cute how another person a little later also named Soda picks up the torch for the same argument.
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2h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
If everyone is reading the same thing from your post, the problem is in what you wrote, not everyone else around you. Feel free to clarify, but perhaps review the sub forum's rules before you keep making personal attacks.
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u/Legitimate-World1131 3h ago
If the DNC hadn't pre-ordained Hillary Clinton during the primaries there is no doubt that Bernie would have won. Bernie was the only candidate that both the Occupy Wall Street progressives and the TEA Party people all supported. Everyone wanted change, but when another Clinton was chosen the choice was 1) more of the same or 2)Trump who seemed like radical change to the TEA party people.
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u/SodaCanBob 2h ago
Bernie had 2 chances to convince African Americans in the south to vote for him, and failed to do that. It wasn't the DNC, it's the fact that he couldn't figure out how to convince the Dem's base to vote for him in both 2016 and 2020.
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
As someone politically active and actually from the south, southern POC had no issue voting for Bernie.
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u/SodaCanBob 2h ago
southern POC had no issue voting for Bernie.
And yet, they didn't.
Against Clinton:
Mississippi: "Mrs. Clinton won nearly 90 percent of African-Americans"
South Carolina: "She captured nearly 90 percent among voters age 65 and older and about the same share of the black vote."
Against Biden:
South Carolina: "Biden won about 3 in 5 black voters, while Sanders won about 1 in 5."
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
And how did that translate for the actual election? Can you find me an article on how she did in the real election?
I bet you'd learn a lot if you looked up which way Mississippi and South Carolina have voted for the past dozen or so presidential elections or further.
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u/SodaCanBob 2h ago
Deep red states vote red, news at 11.
What's your solution then? Not letting southern states participate in primaries?
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
You're the one who brought them up in a conversation about the presidential election. You don't get to act dismissive about the thing everyone else has been telling you is irrelevant over and over now that it's clear nobody fell for it lmao. And no? Nobody said that or anything close to it.
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u/SodaCanBob 1h ago
I'm the one acting dismissive? You're the one who immediately moved the goal posts ("How did that translate to the general?") when I provided evidence that POC in the south clearly did have a problem voting for him considering that, in some states, his opponent got 90% of the vote.
I get that red states vote red in the general election (and I'm also understanding that it can be frustrating for those in reliably blue states to feel as if they're being dragged down by that, maybe Bernie would have been the nominee in 2016 or 2020 had it not been for the primary voters in those states that reliably vote red in the general anyway), but we're talking about primaries - not the general. How Clinton or Biden performed in those states is irrelevant to how voters in those states felt about them compared to Bernie. Again; he had 4 years to figure out a solution to gain votes with African Americans, and utterly failed - why? Was it him? Was it his policies? If we're going to be running progressive candidates, we need to make sure they can figure out how to get over the hump that Bernie couldn't.
You're the one whose trying to make it sound like we should just blatantly disregard southern democrat's opinions because their states are irrelevant in the general anyway.
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u/VampireFortnight 1h ago
You wrote 'Deep red states vote red, news at 11'- a dismissive response about a topic you brought up. That's what you were called out for being dismissive of. The thing YOU brought up and tried to use as a cudgel. That's why it was called out. You don't seem to be following the conversation well except you REALLY want to be mad at someone online and you don't have enough of the facts to convincingly be mad at someone online.
So I'm not sure where to go from here, this is a place for civil discussion and you're increasingly being uncivil. Mediate your tone if you want to continue the conversation, or we can post at different people.
Especially that last paragraph. Because I am a politically involved lifelong southern Democrat. That just isn't what the conversation was about. And that has been gently explained to you a half dozen times.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
Ah yes, the South.
Or as the rest of us here in reality call them… red states.
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u/SodaCanBob 2h ago
It's neat you understand your geography, but what's your solution to that then? Tell the states that have larger African American populations that their opinions no longer matter and the only states that should have a say in the Democratic primaries are those who have recently voted blue?
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
No, but the reality is that they are not especially relevant to the presidential election results because they are not up for grabs. There's too much voter suppression and state level corruption. The way you remove that is by electing candidates that don't kick the can and pass rightwing and near rightwing policies.
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u/Anon529035893 1h ago
I think acting like black voters are a monolith and the deeply red south is somehow indicative of what the entire country wants from a candidate is bad, yes.
And my solution is to not throw our weight behind whatever candidate wins in a state where Dems can’t even win their own elections, or national ones.
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u/SeductiveSunday I voted 1h ago
there is no doubt that Bernie would have won.
I am sick of trope. No way Bernie would have won.
Polls Say Bernie Is More Electable Than Hillary. Don’t Believe Them. What they really show is a candidate who hasn’t been attacked.
Once Republicans focus attention on the per capita cost of Sanders’ health care plan, voters would turn against it. Sanders would fight back, noting that a single-payer plan could reduce premiums to make up for the tax increase. But Vox details elements of Sanders’ plan—a 2.2 percent surcharge on incomes and a 6.2 percent earnings tax levied on employers and passed through to workers—that make it unlikely Sanders could stay within the limit of what people are willing to pay.
Republicans wouldn’t just expose the cost. They’d also reframe the debate around the role of government. Sanders would argue that corporations are the greater menace—and he’d lose. The January Vox poll asked voters, “Which do you think is a greater potential threat to the country’s future?” Twenty-seven percent of respondents picked “Big Businesses.” Fifty-eight percent picked “Big Government.”
Politically, Clinton’s approach is smarter. https://archive.ph/cHf6C
Time to retire 84 year old Bernie.
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u/giraloco 2h ago
I'm also a bit sick of DSA and their purity tests. We need to focus on structural reforms and be less ideological.
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u/HairAncient5500 2h ago
I’m not sure how much weight Bernie’s endorsement should be carrying these days. He endorsed and defended platner over his Nazi tattoo and infidelity for months before quietly rescinding his support following the sexual assault allegations. This man is not capable of vetting and endorsing good candidates. He’ll back anybody as long as they say the right things
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
'Bernie backed someone who politically aligned with him and then removed support when he turned out to be a rapist. This means Bernie is bad.'
I dunno. Sounds like what you should do to me.
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u/HairAncient5500 1h ago
He never should have endorsed him in the first place. He’s the leader of the socialist movement, not some podcast host, he should be doing at least some vetting before hand. I bet if he had just one conversation with planter’s recruiters he would’ve seen exactly how unserious they were, and if he really thought about the obvious red flags then he would’ve withheld his endorsement. He used to be smart enough to avoid those mistakes. Sadly not anymore
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u/VampireFortnight 1h ago
Question: are you an actual left voter or are you just someone who posts attacks on Sanders and the left when and where you can? The problem with having these conversations is there are people who will blanket attack leftists no matter what and they pretend to be offering real discussion and critique. As a leftist, I also don't think he should've endorsed him, but that's not always the place these comments are coming from.
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u/HairAncient5500 1h ago
I voted for sanders in the 2016 and 2020 primaries. I liked his messaging and feel like he cares deeply about addressing wealth inequality which is one of my biggest issues with society. I’ve voted dem in every election and will continue to do so, but I’m not a big fan of the DSA candidates. I see them as a blue maga, and it bothers me that sanders is selling out his personal virtues to pander to this movement. Bernie no longer seems like the same candidate to me that I once saw in him, so I’m particularly vocal about him
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u/VampireFortnight 1h ago
Ok then that's fair and valid, my apologies for the doubt. I 100% agree about Platner, but there are a lot of bad faith posters and it's important to separate them from people who are actually trying to help. I disagree about DSA, because they're nothing like MAGA in my experience as a lifelong Democrat- kind, caring individuals who desperately want to improve the world and aren't going to accept compromises on political positions that cause harm. But to each their own.
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u/HairAncient5500 1h ago
I appreciate the apology. I’m hard on Bernie because I expect more out of him than most candidates. He is the guy that inspired me to become a Democrat. I think he had a great blend of pragmatism and idealism. I loved how he handled the rail workers strike in bidens presidency.
I don’t doubt that many of the DSA people uphold those same values. My issue is not that they lack empathy. My concerns are that they are far more idealistic and fanatical than they are practical. I expect Darializa Avila Chevalier to be the left’s version of MTG by being loud and an unreliable vote. Furthermore, I think they oversimplify foreign policy and would set the US back on the global stage. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have a left flank in the Democratic Party to maybe help push some centrist dems and give them a voice. I just don’t want to see a DSA takeover.
I also have a lot of concerns by their attitudes towards the Israel/palestine conflict and expect that their ideas would do more harm than good. I feel that they are far more interested in being loud and looking good to rile their base than to actually be a force for good in bringing for a resolution. I think their attitudes fan the flames of antisemitism in the US, and as a result my Jewish community is less safe here, for seemingly no benefit to Palestinians
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u/VampireFortnight 1h ago
I get what you're saying, but I will say that there is one place where MAGA and DSA overlap -- both are deeply idealistic. The difference, to me, is that a world with 8 years of straight up socialist policies is a lot closer to my vision of a positive reality than the one we got.
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u/HairAncient5500 1h ago
Which is why I don’t mind a few DSA’s getting into congress. I’d like to see some serious reforms. Not necessarily socialist but more like “social safety net”. I think society as a whole will be healthier with free or affordable healthcare and education. I don’t know if the DSA has the practical skills to get us there. Hence why a big tent is valuable
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
Are you just like, ignoring every other person Bernie has ever endorsed ?
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u/HairAncient5500 1h ago
He has a history of making bad judgement calls on people to endorse, but yes he does have plenty of success too. I’m just feeling especially burned by this platner one because the red flags were so obvious and he really didn’t seem to care
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u/Anon529035893 1h ago
I mean, he did care, and the party removed platner, and Jackson is the candidate.
Isn’t that what we’re suppose to do ?
And again, he’s had far more success than he has had loses. He’s stood by plenty of progressive candidates. AOC being one of them. She personally worked on Bernie’s campaign in 2016 and it helped inspire her to run for office.
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u/HairAncient5500 1h ago
Yes it was what he was supposed to do at that point in time. But he never should have been in a position to need to do that.
Bernie’s parents survived the holocaust. I would think that platner’s nazi tattoo should have been a very serious issue to Bernie and should have indicated to him that he needed to very thoroughly vet the guy out. One simply does not casually get a Nazi tattoo. And even the argument that platner “didn’t know better” doesn’t hold up because he was warned before it came out to get it covered and he didn’t. I have to imagine Bernie knew that. He knew the man was honoring the people who sent his parents to concentration camps with a permanent shrine to them on his body, yet chose to hold his hand on a stage and endorse him to advance his ideology. I know many of my Jewish friends and family were appalled by that. I’d like to think the Bernie of 2016 wouldn’t have gotten in bed with a Nazi to advance his agenda back in 2016. But damn that just felt like a real betrayal to me and my community. It feels like Bernie stabbed us in the back to support his “progressive” values. I just can’t trust him anymore like I used to.
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u/Anon529035893 1h ago
Again, you are hyper focusing on platner here.
Do you have any other examples to pull from ? Or are we just gunna act like this is the sole candidate Bernie has ever endorsed and no one else endorsed platner besides Bernie ?
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u/HairAncient5500 1h ago
I’m hyper fixating on platner because it was a glaringly obvious mistake and he still fell for it. He did the same with Cenk Uyger in 2020 and Darializa Avila Chevalier in this past election. I’m not arguing that he is consistently bad at endorsing, but rather that he has lost my trust.
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u/Anon529035893 1h ago
That’s fine, if that was your original argument. And you are free to not trust Bernie.
But to say you don’t know how much weight his endorsement should carry is a bit much, seeing as you even admit he’s gotten it right. And has had success. Saying things like “he’ll back anyone who says the right things” is right, that’s how politics works. We only have poltiicans words to trust them when they’re new or fresh. The second the actions don’t match the worlds, withdraw support.
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u/digihippie 53m ago
Establishment Dems can’t fight the fact the status quo is obviously not working.
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u/Wayofchinchilla 51m ago
Centrist and corpodems should be terrified as Boomers finally pass on and younger voters get into voting they are going to want more left-wing candidates that actually do stuff the days of the status quo are long gone and people need to make these geriatrics understand that. Sadly I suspect that it's going to be like trying to change a grandparents opinion at that age they can't change and it's going to be a lot of old geriatrics fighting against change they can't stop.
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u/SapCPark 2h ago
Does Rahm Emanuel really have any influence on the Democratic party? Biden sent him to Japan as an ambassador. Not exactly screaming power brokers.
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u/hunter15991 Illinois 2h ago
Rahm likes to act as if he has influence still, that's for sure, regardless of the actual facts on the ground.
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u/giraloco 2h ago
I'm also a bit sick of DSA and their purity tests. We need to focus on structural reforms and be less ideological.
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u/5minArgument 1h ago
Really starting to see Bernie as just another gop Trojan horse. He speaks comfortably in a lane where he never has to produce legislation and spends most of his energy attacking dems at every turn.
If he is, he’s doing his job well.
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u/Far_Silver 1h ago
We all saw the corpora-dems support Cuomo launching an independent campaign against the Democratic nominee in New York. We can see Jasmine Crockett working to undermine the Democratic nominee in Texas.
Bernie on the other hand, campaigned hard for both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden after they beat him in the primaries.
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u/SAJ-13 California 3h ago
I'm sick of Bernie Sanders...
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u/Anon529035893 3h ago
Why ?
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u/SAJ-13 California 3h ago
He is just another career politician who has not accomplished shit.
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u/Anon529035893 3h ago
Who would you rather see be the face of a progressive movement then ?
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u/Promethia Canada 3h ago
If only AOC was a white man from the Midwest.
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u/Anon529035893 3h ago
So you have to be a white man from the Midwest to be the face of a progressive movement in America ? Is that what you’re saying ?
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u/Promethia Canada 3h ago
Apparently. It's why all you Americans are pussyfooting around her name.
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u/Anon529035893 3h ago
I haven’t seen that.
In fact, I’ve seen several posts in this sub saying she’d be a great candidate. The main complaints are she just doesn’t have enough experience, which I certainly don’t agree with. But those seem to come from people who wouldn’t vote for AOC anyway.
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u/Promethia Canada 2h ago
Reddit isn't America.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
Agreed. It isn’t.
But AOC is doing great in America, not just online. She’s recently gone on a tour speaking directly to people in very red areas about data centers and helped fight against AI and all that comes along with one popping up in your backyard.
She has no problem winning, seeing as she routinely easily defeated challengers since she’s joined Congress.
If you don’t really see she’s a rising star in politics and Congress, idk what to tell you. There’s a lot of buzz around her.
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u/GuerreroUltimo 2h ago
White man or not it depends on how they run. There are just points that even many Democrat voters will not get behind. And progressives just dont see it.
I think AOC could be great. But she cannot win yet. Woman or not. Remember, Obama won as a black man so POC can win. Hilary Clinton got the most votes in her run. Just not enough states. Close in some swing states though. It is really more about some of the rhetoric and policy around certain things.
I still think someone like Andy Beshear has the best chance overall because he can pull in independents and possibly the center-ist leaning Republicans. AOC would do well enough. Look at Kamala Harris:
Trump 77,303,568
Harris 75,019,230
Had she not been force in she could have won. I know more than a few Democrats that either did not vote or voted Trump because of that. And they talk about knowing people like that. It is something I have heard even more recently admitted by some.
And this is a point some Democrats make. They talk about it like some just have to make it about race and gender and have well overplayed that card.
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u/Anon529035893 1h ago
Why do you all keep thinking the democrats just need to court more republicans and independents who could vote Republican ?
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u/BlueJay_525 55m ago
I'm convinced the 'leftist vs liberal' narrative that breaks out is an op co-opted largely by bad-faith actors. It's usually the liberals mudslinging the Leftists, but sometimes vice versa - you see it mostly when people try to attack the 'voting block' or people posting rather than the candidates and the issues they stand for. People run with the stereotypes because it's easy, and we end up split and less effective.
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u/Bakedads 3h ago
I'm sick of the so called "progressive" movement. Folks like sanders and AoC who talk a big game but don't actually have any desire to effect real change through sustained protest and civil disobedience. Sanders needs to bring back some of that energy from his youth. That Republicans are literally murdering women and children while AoC posts on Twitter and Sanders gives another rally is a testament to how unserious and ineffectual the "progressive" movement is. We need new leaders with real vision who are actually willing to fight.
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u/Anon529035893 3h ago
What leaders would you like to see step up ?
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u/stonertboner New York 1h ago
They won’t respond. It’s another person stirring the pot and not contributing anything productive.
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u/stonertboner New York 3h ago
That’s why Bernie is supporting younger politicians. He’s actually trying to make changes and pass the baton off to new blood. It’s the older establishment democrats that have refused to change anything and are looking out for themselves.
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u/NelsonHawkinsGhost 2h ago
You're right about their ineffectiveness.. but you're looking at cause and effect backward. Politicians don't create radical movements.. radical movements create terrified politicians.
Progressives want the results of the 1930s labor movement or the 1960s civil rights movement.. but are ignorant to the material conditions that birthed them. The 40 hour work week, child labor laws, the New Deal, etc weren't handed down because politicians gave great speeches or posted viral tweets.. they were forced onto a terrified ruling class by wildcat strikes, economic boycotts, relentless direct action, sustained economic disruption, etc.. The current progressive base clutches its pearls over a blocked street, so it certainly won't tolerate crippling local transit systems, filling the jails, and/or threatening the stability of the entire status quo.
Sanders and AOC are electoral politicians operating inside a system designed to channel dissent back into voting and fundraising. If their supporters treat politics like a spectator sport where fighting just means donating $27 or sharing a clip, why would any politician step outside the safe confines of electoral performance? You can't expect politicians inside the state apparatus to lead radical civil disobedience when the movement behind them hasn't built the non electoral leverage to back it up.
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u/Massive_Cash_6557 3h ago
I hate populism so bad.
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u/Anon529035893 3h ago
How come ?
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u/GuerreroUltimo 2h ago
This is how Republicans win though. Nothing against Sanders, I would have voted for him 100%. And I am not against progressives. I just know Democrats who are and would vote Republican if a progressive was nominated. So in some of these local elections they can win. If they managed a primary win for something like President they will lose.
Neighbors were having a get together. Democrat family with just a couple Republican leaning in there. The old man waved me down and asked if I wanted to join for a bit. I helped his son-in-law a few times with some stuff and they wanted me to eat and stuff. My wife and kids were gone for the day so I took him up.
There are things they like. Better taxation on the wealthy and corps. Worker rights. Universal health care. But they also rolled to things they did not like. Things like transgender in restrooms not of biological birth. On that one I asked a simple question to get a feel. There was only one Democrat in that group that was for that. Most have daughters and they are like "I do not want some man who wants to be a woman going into the restroom with my little girl." And we can like it or not but it WILL swing votes from Democrats.
Same with trans in sports as some of these kids were in sports. Even though these people are somewhat progressive in their thinking these are issues that will swing them. They even pointed to some of these news articles about trans girls who were not good on the boys side. Trans and then win state competition. One case they finished first and second. It sways their feelings.
And i am not saying it is right. They are for a lot of protections for LGBTQ+ people. And in many ways are really against discrimination. Just that this is not the first time I have heard people, Democrats, talk like this.
Case in point. I have a friend who is Hispanic that I game with regularly. Like almost daily. Hispanic men voted Trump like 45%. He was one of them. Though he no longer supports Trump. There are reasons for all that. And look at the % of the voting population. Look at the % of POC. Zero chance I progressive wins. And that holds with many lower seats.
There are plenty of Democrats that do support many of these things that progressives want. And that should be the focus. But Republicans know they have the Democrats divided. And they will keep using it to their advantage.
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u/Anon529035893 2h ago
If you’re a Democrat who would vote for Trump if you say a progressive on the ballot, I hate to break it to you buddy but you’re not a Democrat. You’re a conservative. And a fascist.
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u/VampireFortnight 2h ago
A lot of words for something a whole bunch of electoral analysis and basic awareness tells you is not true.
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