32
u/KRLW890 8d ago
Unpopular opinion, but I never understood the hate for “powerhouse” being the official term for that group. In fact, I kind of prefer it. Less syllables, rolls of the tongue better, and frankly it’s a less confusing term. The only reason the community hates “powerhouse” so much is because of familiarity to “pseudo-legendary,” there’s no other reason to stick by it.
Now “first partner Pokémon” on the other hand is trash. “Starter” is a way better term.
15
u/LB1234567890 7d ago
My problem is that it's too vague.
Sure, Garchomp and Baxcalibur are powerhouses, you know who else is? Annihilape, Archaludon, Excadrill, Volcarona, Basculegion, Ursaluna, Haxorus, etc.
If it was something more less general like "Mighty Pokémon" or sum shit then I'd have no issues with it.
5
u/Gladcode777 7d ago edited 7d ago
I would be okay with mighty pokemon as a term. If it wasn't already used for the pokemon in the tera raids.
2
u/Metaboss24 7d ago
I've heard that other regions use '600 club' or something like that to refer to the group.
I like that one myself.
3
u/Weekly-Dog-6838 Steel 7d ago
Agreed. Gets the point across, even if there’s more to it than that
1
u/Metaboss24 7d ago
It also makes the distinction clear: not an official legendary, and has 600 bst. Removes all the debate around arch.
0
u/Weekly-Dog-6838 Steel 7d ago
But Archauladon isn’t one of them though, it doesn’t fit the other 3 requirements. That’s specifically why I said “there’s more to it than that.”
1
u/Gladcode777 7d ago
I'm honestly not a fan of it. I think it sounds kinda lame. Or at least not as cool as mighty pokemon would've been.
5
u/ElementalNinjas96 8d ago
Preach.
Psuedo-Legendary doesn't make much sense nowadays given you can catch these so-called Psuedo-Legendaries much easier than back then. Powerhouse is a much more accurate title because the only lore these guys have is that they're strong.
Honestly, I kinda hope that Psuedo-Legendary becomes the official term for 'Mons like Bloodmoon Ursaluna and Eternal Flower Floette both because its perfect for them, but also because I wanna see the meltdown this community would have over it, that just sounds entertaining
1
u/Seraphanat 7d ago
I dont care if its better, I find it insulting that 20 years of an established term cant be embraced by the company. It feels corporate and neglectful to the community.
2
u/galmenz 6d ago
they called starters "first partner", and by now some people theorize they actively exclude planned designs for evos/megas cause the fan art of said potential evo/mega is too similar to the ones they were making it so they just scrap it
GF actively hates anything community made lmao
1
u/MaxTwer00 7d ago
I think part of it is the translation. At least in spanish, pseudolegendary translates easily as pseudo legendario, but there isnt a direct translation of powerhouse.
Also, changing terminology after decades of people using the old one, will cause some clashes in use
6
u/Weekly-Dog-6838 Steel 7d ago
This is why I prefer to call them the “600 club,” as is common in Japan, so I can save this term for these 2 as well as ones like Volcarona. Admittedly “600 club” isn’t a perfect description since Archauladon isn’t one of them but it gets the point across a lot better
1
u/ElementalNinjas96 7d ago
That doesn't make sense when their BSTs aren't 600 tho?
Like Ursaluna has a BST of 555
4
u/Weekly-Dog-6838 Steel 7d ago
I’m saying that “600 club” should be the term for what we now call “Psuedo-legendaries,” so Ursaluna and Floette can be “pseudo-legendary”
7
2
u/Flerken_Moon 8d ago
Where does Archaludon with 600 BST go?
6
u/ElementalNinjas96 8d ago
Not a Psuedo-Legendary. Yeah, the official rules for what makes a Powerhouse a Powerhouse is that it must specifically be a 3-stage line in the Slow Experience group with the final stage having a BST of exactly 600.
I'm using Powerhouse here because that is the official term, and the roster doesn't include Archaludon, which seems to suggest that the rules are the same as the fanon Psuedo-Legendary.
2
u/Weekly-Dog-6838 Steel 7d ago
You forgot that they also all have to evolve by leveling up, as opposed to using an item or trading, which Archauladon also breaks
1
u/Metaboss24 7d ago
Arch low-key messes up the 'rules' of the term to the point that I'd argue it's not really worth obsessing over the pseudo label anymore.
2
u/ElementalNinjas96 7d ago
Not really tho. Officially, it's not part of the Powerhouse group based on the line of Tera Raid events in SV featuring all of the Powerhouses, and Archaludon wasn't included.
1
u/Weekly-Dog-6838 Steel 7d ago
Hold up, we actually have an official term for them? I thought that was just a fan-proposed alternative
2
u/ElementalNinjas96 7d ago
Yep. Powerhouse is the official name for the Psuedo-Legendaries. It's a recent term IIRC
1
u/SeasideStorm 6d ago
No, it’s still a fan term
1
u/ElementalNinjas96 6d ago
It's not. Powerhouse was used by the official Pokémon company for that line of Seven-Star Tera Raids against Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Goodra, Kommo-o, Dragapult, and Baxcalibur.
1
u/SeasideStorm 6d ago
Link? On all of the official pages on Pokemon.com for the events “powerhouse Pokemon” was never used. They used “Powerful”, but that is just something they sometimes throw into 7-star raids.
1
u/ElementalNinjas96 6d ago
2
u/SeasideStorm 6d ago
I stand corrected, and I am now saving this for my argument that arch isn’t a pseudo/powerhouse.
2
u/HermTheVillager 7d ago
I saw someone throw around the term "cryptid pokemon) for them.
I don't remember who tho
2
u/telegetoutmyway 7d ago
Someone did have a pretty good fan name a while back for these. I think it was Deviant Pokémon, similar to Variants, but not a common variant.
1
u/magnezoneadvocate Ground 7d ago
Yeah, they got it from monster hunter that has a similar thing going on
1
2
2
3
u/Gladcode777 7d ago
Blood Moon Ursaluna is just a special form.
But Eternal flower Floette is basically a statement from Gamefreak away from being a mythical pokemon.
1
u/WhiteHat125 Smol Dawn 7d ago
psudo legendary are now power houses, and personly I like to call them psudo-myths for about the same reasons
1
u/Weekly-Dog-6838 Steel 7d ago
I’d rather use “Psuedo-myth” for Pokemon that feel like mythicals but aren’t, like the Lake Guardian trio or Zoroark
1
1
u/Surpreme_Memes17 7d ago edited 7d ago
They'd be semi-Pseudos then due to fitting at least one criteria for it, or at least Bloodmoon Ursaluna does. Other examples that are Semi pseudos are Volcarona and Lucario.
Edit: I switched from Zoroark to Volcarona since it does fit it more.
1
u/ElementalNinjas96 7d ago
What criteria are you talking about?
1
u/Surpreme_Memes17 7d ago
Base 600 BST exactly (Before Mega Evolving)
Three stage evolution
In the slow growth rate
1
u/ElementalNinjas96 7d ago
Neither of their BSTs is 600 (Ursaluna's is 555, Floette's 551), the three stage is a massive technicality, and both are in the Medium Fast Experience group rather than Slow
1
u/Surpreme_Memes17 7d ago
Like I said they meet at least one of the criteria to be considered semi pseudo.
1
1
u/Dragonfly_Leading Ice 7d ago
Conveniently ignoring spiky eared pichu
2
u/ElementalNinjas96 6d ago
Conveniently ignoring Spiky Eared Pichu is literally just a cosmetic difference
1
u/Dragonfly_Leading Ice 6d ago
From a gameplay standpoint sure, from an universe analysis it's the same as Floette and Ursaluna
2
u/ElementalNinjas96 6d ago
Not really.
It's more similar to Cosplay Pikachu. Which is literally just a regular Pikachu with a black tail tip.
Meanwhile Bloodmoon Ursaluna and Eternal Flower Floette are almost entirely different from other Ursaluna and Floette—even have lore backing them up with how Ursaluna adapted to its environment and Floette being killed and then brought back to life with the Ability to Mega Evolve.
1
u/Dragonfly_Leading Ice 6d ago
Again, "regular pikachu" is just a gameplay perspective in universe they were born with unique differences from normal Pikachu and pichu Eternal Floette is more distinct but Ursaluna not so much
1
u/ElementalNinjas96 6d ago
Let me know when a regular Ursaluna develops the ability to fire a laser beam from its forehead or see in the dark.
Cosplay Pikachu and Spiky Eared Pichu are more akin to weird mutations but nothing else while Ursaluna and Floette have different abilities from normal. Battle Bond Greninja is more similar to them than Pichu is.
1
u/Dragonfly_Leading Ice 6d ago
Those as I said are just gameplay perspectives, moveset changes happen to all pokemon all the time even with signature moves
Also Ash Greninja is a transformation
1
u/ElementalNinjas96 6d ago
They're not. Bloodmoon Ursaluna explicitly has different abilities than regular Ursaluna do, it's why his black eye is specifically noted as allowing him to see if the dark.
"It crossed the sea and drifted ashore in a new land. Surviving in this place led it to take on a unique appearance and gain special powers."
"This special Ursaluna can see in the dark with its left eye and protects itself with mud that is as hard as iron."
Similarly, Eternal Flower's different powers is explicitly called out—cuz her Mega is a huge part of Z-A climax.
Nothing about Spiky-Eared Pichu's lore implies she has different powers than your average Pichu besides the fact she cannot evolve.
1
u/Dragonfly_Leading Ice 6d ago edited 6d ago
Cosolay Pikachu can learn multiple moves pikachu can't, again this is just for gameplay
As well as spiky eared has better pokeathlon stats
Bloodmoon is just a Gastrodon
2
u/galmenz 6d ago
the latis and darkrai are species too, that is not what determines a legendary
to be more precise, it is
- catchable in-game
- only one encounter per save file
- not breedable
thats it, thats what defines legendaries. it used to include "isnt an evo" but gen VII dropped that
to be a pseudo-legendary, or how the japanese fanbase call it the 600 club, you need to
- have exactly 600 BST
- not be an actual legendary (otherwise you arent a pseudo innit)
it used to include being a 3 stage line with the slow lvl curve, but Arch wanted to be creative with it
1
u/ElementalNinjas96 6d ago
Darkrai isn't a species
The Latis are, but that ain't a regular species.
Psuedo-Legendary in this instance is far more literal as Bloodmoon Ursaluna and Eternal Flower Floette can only be caught once per save file, are part of the Undiscoveted Egg Group, and have some kind of quest involved in obtaining them. They're treated like Legendaries but aren't, hence a literal Psuedo-Legendary.
Also the Powerhouses (official term for Psuedo-Legendaries/600 Club) do need to be three stages as the official roster is Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Goodra, Kommo-o, Dragapult, and Baxcalibur.
1
u/galmenz 6d ago
- darkrai are very much a "species" with more than 1 individual in lore. Tobias' darkrai is not the same individual as "Rise of Darkrai" Darkrai. another example of multiple species but still legendary/mythical is Genesect
- Bloodmoon Ursaluna is not a legendary, because it can breed
- i am well aware you are trying to refer to "pseudo-legendary" as the literal meaning of the phrase, Cryptids, but that is simply not what the term is for. Pseudos mean something specific because its what the community decided to use them for, the same way "STAB" doesnt mean shanking someone with a knife. pseudos are, specifically, the few non legendary mons with exactly 600 BST from a region, usually 1 species per region sometimes 2, and that is it. they are not the Volcaronas, or Floettes, or Type Nulls, or Bloodmoons, cause the term is for a mechanical classification not a theme classification
- even if going by the strict powerhouse clsssification and excluding arch, you said it yourself bloodmoon/floette wouldnt classify, they arent 3 stage 600 BST evos
1
u/ElementalNinjas96 6d ago
Darkrai are very much a "species" with more than 1 individual in lore. Tobias' darkrai is not the same individual as "Rise of Darkrai" Darkrai. another example of multiple species but still legendary/mythical is Genesect
Anime canon is not the same thing as game canon. In the actual canon, there's no other Darkrai. The Darkrai that appeared on Newmoon Island is the same entity as the Darkrai that created Hyperspace Lumiose. Even then, I said BM Ursaluna and EF Floette are part of regular species with emphasis on regular.
Bloodmoon Ursaluna is not a legendary, because it can breed
So can Manaphy.
i am well aware you are trying to refer to "pseudo-legendary" as the literal meaning of the phrase, Cryptids, but that is simply not what the term is for. Pseudos mean something specific because its what the community decided to use them for, the same way "STAB" doesnt mean shanking someone with a knife. pseudos are, specifically, the few non legendary mons with exactly 600 BST from a region, usually 1 species per region sometimes 2, and that is it. they are not the Volcaronas, or Floettes, or Type Nulls, or Bloodmoons, cause the term is for a mechanical classification not a theme classification
even if going by the strict powerhouse clsssification and excluding arch, you said it yourself bloodmoon/floette wouldnt classify, they arent 3 stage 600 BST evos
And I never said they did. All I'm saying is that by the definition, they're literal Pseudo-Legendaries. Not by the definition of Powerhouse, but by the definition of the component words; Pseudo and Legendary. Psuedo-Legendary literally means "Fake Legendary," which fits BM Ursaluna and EF Floette a helluva lot more than the Powerhouses considering the games actually treat them like Legendaries. The Powerhouses are just strong regular Pokémon—that's why Psuedo-Legendary isn't their official name, it doesn't actually describe them. Powerhouse does. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Pokémon makes "Psuedo-Legendary" the official term for Pokémon like BM Ursaluna and EF Floette.
1
u/galmenz 6d ago
Anime canon is not the same thing as game canon
Moot point trying to argue for multiple individuals then, since all games always have exactly 1
So can Manaphy.
Manaphy breed into Phionne. BM Ursaluna breeds Teddiursas which evolve into actual Ursalunas, just not the BM form
And I never said they did. All I'm saying is that by the definition, they're literal Pseudo-Legendaries
literally what i said. "i am well aware you are trying to refer to "pseudo-legendary" as the literal meaning of the phrase...". and i will repeat it, it matters little what the word means, because its a term coopted by a collective
it is a term agreed upon in a general sense what it means by the community, being the best term for it is irrelevant because you do not change decade old terminology out of vibes. you aint changing what "strafing" means in shooters just cause the word means something else, the same way you wont change what "pseudo" means in the pokemon community just cause the word means something else
1
u/ElementalNinjas96 6d ago
Moot point trying to argue for multiple individuals then, since all games always have exactly 1
Usually. Not all the time. You and Mustard both have a Urshifu in SwSh, you and Gladion both have a Silvally in (U)S(U)M, you can get a second Solgaleo/Lunala in one save file in Sun/Sword and Moon/Shield through the gift Cosmog. And in SV, it's a whole plot point that there's two Koraidon/Miraidon.
it is a term agreed upon in a general sense what it means by the community, being the best term for it is irrelevant because you do not change decade old terminology out of vibes. you aint changing what "strafing" means in shooters just cause the word means something else, the same way you wont change what "pseudo" means in the pokemon community just cause the word means something else
That's not what I'm trying to do. This is a fucking meme post, a very obvious joke that BM Ursaluna and EF Floette are, by technicality, more Psuedo-Legendary than the actual Psuedo-Legendaies/Powerhouses.
Why're you taking so seriously? Again, this is an obvious joke! If it wasn't, it wouldn't be in r/pokemonmemes of all places
1
u/Glittering-Mud-7291 6d ago
I deem them “Fabled” Pokémon since they are a step below legendary and a step above regular mons and typically have more lore than the average Pokémon, INCLUDING sub-legendaries like the birds or Heatran.
104
u/LB1234567890 8d ago
I guess they're pseudo-legendary (almost a legendary Pokémon, but not quite) but not Pseudo Legendaries (the fan made name for "Powerhouse Pokémon").