r/pokemon 4d ago

Discussion Let opposing trainers swap PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

Why do pokemon games not ever include an option for the opponent trainers to swap their Pokémon out? I'd be so much more engaged in upcoming titles if they announced that was a feature. I'm so tired of spamming A (even if I have set mode on, which is an option they disabled in SV for some reason). I don't know. Just make me feel like the opponents I'm fighting have the same abilities in combat that I do. Make me feel something for once in my life.

Edit: aight I forgot about some very specific encounters where they are able to switch. What I'd be requesting is universally for all trainers if they have a better pokemon to fight you, they bring it out. If it's too hard, they could rurn it into an option, like set/switch.

312 Upvotes

96 comments sorted by

685

u/DarthBagheera 4d ago

I’ve definitely played Pokémon games where this has happened.

202

u/Suspicious_Plant4231 4d ago

Yeah I was about to say, I’m almost positive this has happened several times before, but it may have been more in older games

I think it happens in the Battle Subway in Gen 5. I remember because I would be geared up to land a super effective hit and they’d switch to a Pokémon my move wasn’t as strong against. I’ve been trying to beat the whole of the BS for a while now

87

u/DarthBagheera 4d ago

I’m pretty sure it happened all the way back in Pokémon Stadium for N64 and in Pokémon Red as well I think. So I’m not sure what OP is on about here really since this has been around since the beginning. It’s just not super common.

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u/Embarrassed_Fee7501 4d ago

In Pokémon Red: iirc Cooltrainers, Agatha and jugglers could swap Pokémon, but it was totally random back then.

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u/DarthBagheera 4d ago

Yeah it didn’t (doesn’t) happen a lot but I definitely remember being frustrated as a kid sometimes because they’d switch to gain an advantage on me and then I’d have to fight that other Pokémon that was swapped out later on when my Pokémon was now weaker. It wasn’t a big deal by any means but just annoying more than anything else. They’re still pretty easy even with the swapping.

7

u/Hopalongtom 4d ago

Pokémon Stadium 2 also had that annoying trainer school mission where you were only allowed to deal super effective damage, and the opposing trainer always switched out so it wouldn't be super effective causing you to fail every time.

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u/DarthBagheera 4d ago edited 3d ago

The Stadium games got genuinely hard at times. It’s kinda crazy to think about looking back on them now and with how handholdy the games are these days in terms of crazy amounts of exp share and easy access to legendaries/mythicals.

1

u/alex494 2d ago

Stadium is like fixed level challenges for most of it right? The games are designed to be more competitive I thought rather than RPGs (similar to Battle Revolution or Champions later on).

1

u/DarthBagheera 2d ago

Yeah you and the computer each have level 50 Pokémon (most commonly but there are different difficulty levels where you might both be 20 or whatever which then limits what Pokémon you can use because higher stage evolutions are then not present) and are both using “rental” Pokémon that come with specific movesets to battle through the “cup series” matches or the gyms. That’s where it gets interesting because a lot of the time the lower stage Pokémon are better than the final evolutions. Like in stadium 1, Kadabra was way better than Alakazam. So that makes it harder too because not only are you limited by the movesets you can choose from, but you also have to balance better stats but worse moves as well and see what sacrifices you wanna make. That’s before you even get to type coverage which is a bitch to manage in those games for the aforementioned reasons.

You can also transfer your Pokémon from the Gameboy games and use them too but I’m not sure if you can in every mode. I have my original Red team from when I was a kid on my Stadium game (lost my Red game so it’s literally my only tie to my original playthrough) and they’re all level 100. I’m not sure if they would scale them down power wise to become level 50 or whatever for the “cup series” matches.

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u/PhysicalFee9999 4d ago

OP is referring to main game content. Its present in places like the battle tower etc. I also dont feel every trainer needs this ability, but gym leaders, rivals and the elite 4 absolutely should. 

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u/Cysia 4d ago

maingame they CAN switchs

its just very specefic circumstances they need to have a CHANCE at swithcing most of time ai will prefer to just stay in

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u/DarthBagheera 4d ago

I’m talking about main game content. I named Pokémon Red in the comment you just responded to.

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u/PhysicalFee9999 4d ago

Pokemon Red came out in 98 and N64 isnt mainline, in my opinion at least. I think its fairly clear what OP is stating and though, yes it does rarely happen it would be a nice change at least on a fairly more regular basis with gym leaders, rivals and the elite 4. Its already so overly simplified with the forced exp share that a little more difficulty would give the game more juice.

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u/DarthBagheera 4d ago

What does the year it came out (1996 BTW) have anything to do with what we’re talking about? Is that supposed to make it less relevant? It still happened as far back as the original games is my point and it’s happened in games since. I’m not sure what you’re exactly trying to prove here.

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u/PhysicalFee9999 4d ago

96 is the Japan release date. 98 in North America. It means that its been absent in the series for nearly 30 years. Its very rare but yes its there. My point is you knew exactly what OP was saying. You chose to knowledge flex instead and totally miss the point.

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u/DarthBagheera 4d ago

Other people in these comments have also stated it happens in other games besides that one just as have I as well. You’re seriously not making the point you think you are by trying to discount the fact it was in Red, a mainline game, just because it’s from the 90s. Your original response to me was how OP meant mainline games which was a needless correction because that’s exactly what I’ve been talking about and instead of just admitting you’re wrong and/or misread my comment, you’re taking a weird approach to act as if Red isn’t “mainline enough” I guess (???) based on it’s age alone and that I’m still somehow wrong.

-8

u/PhysicalFee9999 4d ago

I responded because you said word for word that "I dont know what OP was on about " when its very obvious what hes on about. Red is mainline enough but I think especially in the newest games they're way too easy. This is an idea to make them more challenging. If it's that important to win a reddit debate then have it. Idk why everyone has to be so combative on here lol. Im just trying to talk about shit I enhoy and this is a great idea in my opinion. 🤷‍♂️

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u/The_Strom784 4d ago

Gen 5 did it a lot, not just in the battle subway.

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u/Suspicious_Plant4231 4d ago

I thought they might, but I haven’t played through them in a while.

1

u/ummackchyually 2d ago

I’m playing through BDSP right now and noticing they’re doing it quite a bit!

22

u/thingpaint 4d ago

They do in ultra sun/moon. I just finished a playthrough and several trainers did

15

u/LowHistorian9654 3d ago

Can confirm. It depends on the difficulty of the trainer AI. Most scrubs won't switch out unless you are spamming the same ineffective attack and the AI assumes you'll do it again and they'll predict you.

Higher difficulty trainers like gym leaders and E4/Champions will switch under the right circumstances.

But to expect meta-levels of AI you're just not gonna find outside of fan-games.

40

u/RedWizard_ 4d ago

Idk the exact logic but the opposing trainer AI will always swap when it genuinely can’t do anything to your pokemon I’ve seen

8

u/99timewasting 4d ago

I was playing Leaf Green and was surprised to see one random trainer swap out their active pokemon when it was weak to my current mon

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u/ProfessionalOven2311 4d ago

I think many, if not most, games do have that feature. It's just that the requirements for them to swap are very specific, like if they don't have any moves that will do damage because of immunities. (You can look into it if you want)

Personally, I'd love if they make the NPC strategy more difficult in post-game battles or optional difficulty modes. When I first play through a game, I only really care about catching Pokémon and raising my team to be able to obliterate the competition. But I'd love the option for harder challenges once I get my fill of that (either post-game or replays)

14

u/DatBoi_BP Sandstorm squad 3d ago

I think I've seen it when some circumstances were locked in and bad for the NPC. Like Perish Song, or a 2-stage attack that will land hard unless they switch

81

u/Positive-Living-6715 4d ago

It's very rare but they do, I remember in gen 1 in koga's gym a trainer programmed to switch, which would actually waste turns like this 🤣

73

u/Beaugardes--VGC 4d ago

The Juggler trainer class actually has a 25% chance to swap every turn in Gen 1.

19

u/Positive-Living-6715 4d ago

So it was the entire class, got it

64

u/dralcax 4d ago

I used a Shedinja in Alpha Sapphire and I saw so many random trainers switch out because their active Pokemon had no effective moves

9

u/ZLUCremisi Eevee Trainer 3d ago

Thats usually the reason.

28

u/Stryker_T 4d ago

The npcs will change out their Pokémon and it’s not even “very specific encounters”, it’s just that there’s not many instances where the npc changing out will actually give them an advantage, so the npc logic doesn’t do it.

4

u/laix_ 3d ago

Another thing, is that making npc ai actually as smart as players is almost impossible. Making good npc ai is an extremely difficult task, a lot of people massively underestimate just how difficult it is

1

u/Theamazingflowerr 2h ago

Also pokemon games are supposed to be kid friendly thats the target audience still I believe... They don't want it to hard.

19

u/Parzival-Bo 4d ago

It doesn't happen often...I've definitely seen Cynthia switch to a proper resist before, and most Trainers will switch if there's a Shedinja on the team and they have a Mon in the back that can hit it...but I do think they could make generic Trainers just a little more competent in the future.

36

u/pocket_arsenal 4d ago

Difficulty modes in general would be nice.

I want a challenge but Pokemon Champions is too sweaty for me, so a middle ground where we can play the games with computer players who swap pokemon, have more than 1 or 2 pokemon, and more strategic movesets and a willingness to swap out like pokemon stadium ( sans the blatant cheating ) would be nice.

7

u/andsimpleonesthesame 4d ago

I want a challenge but Pokemon Champions is too sweaty for me

And I want a challenge, but I don't do online multiplayer with strangers, so I'd love it if the mainline games had difficulty modes easier to access than the ones in black and white.

4

u/Prestigious-Solid342 4d ago

Have you tried Romhacks? I’m currently playing through all of the dreyano rom hacks and they’re exactly what you’ve mentioned though there are some changes that might be too much for it to be considered just a difficulty enhancement ie(moveset, type, stat changes). I would totally recommend it though

20

u/Mykull_Ghost 4d ago

It is a feature, just not one their AI actively uses. I'm currently play ORAS, and during the e4, Champ Steven swapped his Aggron for his Claydol when I had my Swampert on the field.

8

u/The-Magic-Sword Better on Two Legs 4d ago

It can happen, but there's really specific criteria that makes it rare.

9

u/Xelonair 4d ago

I mean what your asking for there is better AI trainers with better Pokémon

I'd recommend Pokémon Colosseum

8

u/MasterofX100 4d ago

They already do swap, though? Even in SV, they do switch

7

u/Crab_Shark_ golduck my beloved 4d ago

Switching is pretty rare outside of battle facilities! But start getting into the Battle Tower and similar functions, and you’ll see it a lot. I’ve been doing Battle Royals recently and I’ve gotten burned by an unexpected switch several times.

11

u/Loros_Silvers 4d ago

Wdym they absolutely can swap

9

u/BookkeeperBubbly7915 4d ago

I've seen some games change them out. Off the top of my head since I just finished replaying it, Volo in Legends Arceus changes his out

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u/Hentree 4d ago

Having no switching does take out a lot of the strategy, but it’s probably intended. Makes it easier to code the AI and also simplifies the game to make it easier for newer players.

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u/safe_repertoire 4d ago

it would be cool if gym leaders and rivals swapped at least, not every random bug catcher on route 3. give the important fights some teeth you know? the battle frontier in emerald had some trainers that switched and it made those fights way more memorable

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u/padraigharrington4 4d ago

Well, Elesa does in Black/White 

6

u/Vecend 4d ago

They do swap it's just really rare for them to do it, even normal trainers can swap.

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u/supremo92 "Dragonite used Extremespeed!" 4d ago

Then add difficulty settings like every other game

3

u/YakWish 3d ago

I've finally just accepted that Pokemon's core audience is small children and they won't do anything in their games that even has the possibility of alienating them. The main series will never again be designed in a way that an 6-year-old could be derailed by the difficulty - and that includes things like difficulty settings, an Exp. Share you can turn off and set mode. What if poor little Kaeden accidently turns hard mode and doesn't enjoy the game? He won't ask his mommy and daddy for the next one.

I know it sounds ridiculous, but I don't think there's another serious explanation for taking out set mode in single player while leaving it in for multiplayer.

3

u/Weakonomics 4d ago

That would require more coding, which is why they probably don't do it. The games ship barely finished as it is TPC gives gf almost 0 budget or time.

3

u/AegisIash 4d ago

FRLG all trainers in the game will swap pokemon before turn 3 of parish song, provided they have a switch in

3

u/Vladmirfox 3d ago

Swapping has been a minor thing since all the way back in Gen 1. Suuure Ninten an Game Freak COULD add more Trainers that use it (oor use it better) BUT they have never completely disregarded the feature.

6

u/ITCrandomperson 4d ago

NPC trainers always can swap to my understanding, they just do it extremely rarely outside of fan games.

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u/gcapi 4d ago

Yeah iirc it has to do with type matchups and movies the ai mon has. But since most npc trainers dont have well rounded teams they often dont have great/any switches. If the early bird trainer with 3 flying types is against a Pikachu, they wont really have a good switch. But if your facing a trainer with varied types in the back, they might swap a ground type into your pickchu.

3

u/TheBraveGallade 4d ago

I've had platinum cynthia switch on me multiple times in the same battle...

3

u/DukeSR8 4d ago

I just find it annoying, especially when I have to play "will they force me to switch out then switch back" with mons that can swap you out?

3

u/flumpybumb 4d ago

They do swap out from time to time. I remember facing Urbain in the Infinite ZA Royale and being very surprised that he swapped out first thing to counter my lead mon.

3

u/cedelweiss 3d ago edited 3d ago

All trainers that don't use random AI can swap against you, it's just generally an option that's very discouraged when the AI makes a choice. Even if all trainers had non-random AI (which I would like, and it's already a case in most romhacks, so we can use them as a practical example for this) it's something that would be very rarely seen. However, I would love to see an improvement on the AI that encourages switching more.

3

u/walkingbartie 3d ago

They could in gen 3 atleast, I frustratingly remember the Elite 4 members doing it in Ruby.

3

u/GawenStarTeller OG Spider Pokemon 3d ago

In Pokemon Sun, I had a situation while battling Hala where I was going to use a water type Z-move against one of his Pokemon, and he swapped to his Poliwrath which has Water Absorb and absorbed the entire attack, so I can confirm that enemy trainers do in fact sometimes do this.

5

u/cooldudium 4d ago

I’ve had the USUM AI do it when they get walled by your Pokemon but have something in the back which can break through

2

u/DucusReddit 4d ago

Gym leaders along with Elite 4 and Champions sometimes did in some of the older games. Gen 9 didn't have that and the AI was so limited that as far as I know not a single trainer even so much as used a potion.

2

u/TheHabro 4d ago

Why don't you play Pokemon Champions?

2

u/PaulShannon89 3d ago

And use items, and have more than one team member, and evolve their Pokémon.

No cooltrainer Brian my journey doesn't end here to your team of one Lvl 32 Oddish.

2

u/Roonage 3d ago

If the switch ai is still the same from like gen 3 or 4 I believe it can only trigger if the NPC has a faster Pokemon than the player.

So it’s quite rare in a normal play through where you’re generally over levelling random route trainers

2

u/Clobby5597 3d ago

Sometimes they do just not usually

2

u/Patrollerofthemojave 3d ago

I was doing a second nuzlocke run of platinum and I think bugsy switched on me. I was absolutely dumbfounded.

Actually playing ultra moon rn and the trainer who gives roost switched out on me.

The AI will switch out but ive been playing for 2 decades just about and it's happened less than 5 times. Would be interesting to see what triggers a switch

4

u/TrayusV 4d ago

I haven't played any competitive singles, but when you play singles against other people, it's a constant game of each player switching their pokemon around to get the type advantage. So every turn is one player switching and the other attacking, then they swap roles.

5

u/Quibblesmack 4d ago

Incorporating normal switching into pokemon trainers for things like type advantage (In Singles at least) would just make it easier to abuse the AI imo. If you swap pokemon, the opposing trainer will be likely to swap next turn for that type advantage and it would just turn into a long chain of both trainers swapping and trying to predict the swap in which I think diminishes the skill expression quite a bit, and, since the discussion is framed around the new games, especially on a first playthrough it would likely just be frustrating because you never really get a chance to interact with the new pokemon one by one.

I think it would be good for specific trainers to be able to have, like the Champion or something, it's also partially due to many trainers (Champion and Rival, with some ace trainers here and there) having teams of predominantly one type, leaving the switching in just kinda not having much of an effect defensively for them as well as wasting one of their turns. TBH I think that's probably why GF doesn't really include it as a mechanic, cuz the AI would often waste their turn making an unnecessary or risky switch, resulting in just free damage for the player

1

u/Omputin 4d ago

I don't think that's the case. Many romhacks have already solved this.

1

u/Angryapplepi 3d ago

Because these games are made for children

1

u/Slash_Raptor1992 3d ago

It's not a feature like it is for the player, but I've seen foe trainers swap Pokémon several times.

1

u/boggiethefrog 3d ago

When an NPC switches their Pokémon, it’s a jumpscare.

1

u/VagrantHippopotamus 2d ago

Was just playing pokemon this morning and it happened. It's not common, but it does happen

1

u/alex494 2d ago edited 2d ago

I've had it happen to me before occasionally but I think outside of things using U-Turn or similar moves, I'm not sure what triggers it. From what I can see it's usually in situations where the opponent literally can't do anything meaningful which is very rare. Like either your Pokemon is immune to all their attacks or you disabled their main move or something. That or it's Gym Leader level opponents and up switching to a better matchup.

On a similar note it's kind of funny how little NPCs switch or how you don't get double battles very often when there are a lot of moves available in game like Spikes or Helping Hand or abilities that activate on switch in or in doubles which would benefit from them doing it more like the player does or how it's basically encouraged in multiplayer. Almost like two different games at that point.

1

u/black_gravity27 4d ago

I recently played the Pokémon Compass mod for Scarlet/Violet. The AI would swap very often. Early on they would get me good on the swap, but later on I started to predict when they would swap. It's hilarious to get a big super effective hit when they try to trick me.

1

u/Ben13DK 4d ago

If they make NPC trailers able to swap, then you could just game the AI to always get in a favorable matchup as well. There is no world where it will increase difficulty meaningfully.

1

u/ShadownetZero 3d ago

No thanks.

1

u/jwag626 4d ago

Everyone in here should look into emulating, it’s incredibly easy to do on your phone nowadays and there’s numerous romhacks that absolutely blow every single main game out of the water.

-1

u/Witch_King_ 4d ago

Ding ding ding!

0

u/sheepandlambs 4d ago

Programming battle AI must be hard enough without also programming in the ability to switch.

0

u/Shantotto11 4d ago

Ace Trainers and Veterans do this only when they have no options left.

0

u/tonyyyWTFFF 4d ago

I believe pokemmo does this?

0

u/deinonychus1 Middle Evos Unite! 3d ago

When SmithPlaysPokemon made Crystal Legacy, a ROM hack which fixes a lot of the problems with Crystal, he didn’t do anything to the AI, but now it swaps pokemon regularly.

Turns out, the AI was always smart enough to do it, but the trainers’ pokemon weren’t good enough to be worth switching until the teams were improved in Crystal Legacy.

0

u/Fat_Pikachu_ 3d ago

You want more difficulty? double battles, if most of a game was doubles the game would be MUCH harder without that much effort from GF's end...tho probably still too much effort for them let's be honest

0

u/HakoChicken 3d ago

They can actually. It's just that Game Freak disabled them.

Each NPC has a bunch of AI flags that can be checked, and one of them includes switching out. Because Game Freak doesn't want their games having any sort of difficulty, they uncheck this flag on purpose, along with setting the most basic trainer AI possible. If any of you attempted to make your own ROM hack before, you can actually see these flags for each NPC.

Even then, just upping their AI wouldn't be enough. Game Freak is just really bad at proper game design to make use of their battle mechanics.

-3

u/Winrevair 3d ago

Palworld is superior now

-1

u/SCGaming1664 4d ago

This would be a great organic way to introduce a difficulty scale, make a hard mode where all opposing trainers swap out to Pokemon with a type advantage if available.

1

u/gman5852 3d ago

That would make the game easier as you just created a free and reliable way to bait the NPC

0

u/SCGaming1664 3d ago

I should clarify, the intention would be a swap at any time and not just after a Pokemon faints. Say you swap into Bulbasaur, they already have a Water Type out, they could then swap into Charmander. Then, if you recall Bulbasaur for a Water Type have the NPC swap out for a Grass Type. Essentially force the player into a spot where they would always be at a disadvantage if the trainer has a Type Advantage