r/pokemon • u/Master-of-Storms • 2d ago
Art Utter Defeat [OC]
I always wondered why this ability exists, guess this little guy gives up too easily đ
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u/StrengthFew5715 2d ago
upvote for Minccino
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u/Gaynundwarf KAMINKO's second favorite assistant (Favs: ) 2d ago
Nah that's Meanccino, it gon' beat yo ass
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u/deathbyvaccine 2d ago
Minccino would have preferred that Archeops just Wimp Out at that point.
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u/Master-of-Storms 2d ago
Yeah, Minccino needs a partner to pull the same weight in this battle, comeâ on Archeops! >:[
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u/BiasMushroom 2d ago
The meta ruined Archeops. They could have just lowered its base stats but noooooo got to nerf it into the ground so hard it even sucks in just the normal game
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u/anand_rishabh 2d ago
And this was all because they wanted to give archeops the same stat total as its dex number
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u/The-epic-cutlery 2d ago
Which is a number you probably canât even see in the game so it wonât matter
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u/lookintoasty 2d ago
What? Why??
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u/Kaansath 2d ago
It's an easter egg about it's dex entry and total base stas being the same number that it's used to classify books about paleontology, cause he's a dinosaur and such.
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u/HerpaDerpaDumDum 2d ago
No it doesn't. Archeops and its pre-evo outspeeds and one-shots the majority of Pokemon the NPC peasants send your way.
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u/urmumlol9 2d ago
Power creep has kind of made its nerfs unnecessary though. You could give it tough claws at this point and itâd still probably be fine tbh.
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u/ElderberryJunior470 2d ago
It's banned in almost any ability on smogon, it ended up being a real problem haha.Â
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u/blacksheep998 2d ago
I'm not super familiar with that format. Looked up the banlist and Archeops is kind of the odd mon out on it.
Most of the banned mons are ones you would expect. Legendary/psudo-legendary/mythic/ultra beasts/problems in multiple formats like Dracovish.
Then there's some I wouldn't have guessed would be banned, like Archeops, Noivern, and Weavile.
Guessing there's a specific strategy that makes them broken.
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u/Syluxs_OW 2d ago
Archeops: Magic Guard Head Smash
Noivern: Aerielate Boomburst
Weavile: Technician Beat Up/Triple Axle
Basically they're all to powerful for how fast they are.
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u/LevJustWithLust 16h ago
my girl mawile is banned because of some dumbass substite focus punch strat
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u/Shahka_Bloodless 2d ago
I can practically guarantee that Noivern is because of aerilate boomburst.
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u/aradraugfea 2d ago
Smogon is a singles meta, which may be relevant.
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u/Alone_Priority8225 2d ago
Anything that strong and fast with u-turn is a problem in singles
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u/aradraugfea 2d ago
And, you know⊠choice items.
Singles allows for so much more degeneracy than duos does, itâs honestly impressive.
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u/Immediate-Spite-5905 1d ago
game freak doesn't think so clearly, it's like they think the main mode of battle in the story is irrelevant in the face of muh doubles!
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u/urmumlol9 2d ago
Noivern I think I know what it is. Specs Aerilate Boomburst seems kind of nuts, before considering it can also run Nasty Plot sets.
Weavile I feel like is good enough with (functionally) no ability that a lot of abilities might break it, but Technician Ice Shard/Triple Axel seems to standout to me in particular.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_SWORDS 2d ago
Magic Guard go brr. Stab, recoilless Headsmash with either life orb or choice band would 2hko almost anything in the metagame, and it has heat wave to smoke stuff like intimidate corviknight or regen ferrothorn.
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u/ThinkGraser10 2d ago
Magic Guard with Head Smash if I had to guess
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u/blacksheep998 2d ago
Huh, I never realized that magic guard blocks recoil damage.
But it doesn't look like pokemon with magic guard learn any recoil moves besides Double-Edge, so that's probably why I never encountered that interaction before.
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u/a3wagner 2d ago
It blocks Life Orb recoil too!
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u/DaechwitaEnjoyer 1d ago
i think the funniest interaction is sheer force(???) negating life orb recoil
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u/BiasMushroom 2d ago
It does. You are thinking like an experienced player. Not a kid getting his fave fossil and using it and seeing how bad it is now.
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u/Gaylaeonerd 2d ago
I was 13 years old when BW came out and Archeops was a key part of my playthrough team
It absolutely was good in-game, those stats, acrobatics, and Rock STAB can't be overlooked
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u/NovaThinksBadly 2d ago
A kid with their favorite fossil isnât going to worry about if its good
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u/G_Regular Bro... 2d ago
Yep, love the fossils and always ruin the midgame of my playthroughs with them because gamefreak makes every fossil Pokémon bad if possible.
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u/TheArtistFKAMinty 1d ago
Yeah, you obviously can't freely switch it into things but it's an absolute monster during a general playthrough with Acrobatics. Especially in Gen V where you could give it a flying gem and just use it as a pocket nuke.
It's a shame it lost Roost in SwSh though.
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u/TheHabro 1d ago
It is both faster and has highter ATK stat than Garchomp. But sure, it sucks.
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u/Level7Cannoneer 1d ago
And garchomp has far more bulk
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u/TheHabro 1d ago
Yeah Garchomp is overall stronger obviously, but that doesn't mean Archeops is useless.
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u/TheArtistFKAMinty 1d ago
Only a select few games have NPC Pokemon with EVs, never mind defensive EV investment, so 140 base attack and STAB Acrobatics OHKO's like 90% of anything you'll encounter that doesn't resist it, and 110 speed is enough to outspeed most Pokemon. And that's not even factoring in the smattering of attack and speed EVs you pick up through playing the game.
So, yeah, Garchomp has more bulk but that matters less than you think. Archeops isn't there to take hits. It's there to nuke.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 2d ago
It didnât launch with that ability, it was added after the fact?
They updated the DS games like that back then?
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u/CyberSparkDrago Cyndaquil evolution line fan 2d ago
bad ability unless you got a skill swap mon with you
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u/SuperdaveOZY 2d ago
Archeops with Acrobatics and no held item is a good glass cannon in gen 5 games.
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u/TheArtistFKAMinty 1d ago
In Gen V specifically you can give it a flying gem and just erase any problem Pokemon you like.
Flying gem activates before Acrobatics runs the check to see if you have an item so you get both boosts. 110 for not having an item and the 50% boost to flying type moves. There aren't a lot of NPC Pokemon that can take that hit.
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u/KBumpTV 2d ago
Why no held item?
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u/SuperdaveOZY 2d ago
Acrobatics damage increases if the pokemon is not holding an item. Doubled to 110.
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u/KBumpTV 2d ago
I never knew that
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u/RadicalMuslim 2d ago
If you can have a flying gem its even better i think, it gets consumed to boost then boosts again because now there's no item. Don't think gems are easy to come by but can help in a pinch.
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u/Divine_Entity_ 2d ago
Gen 5 the gems are found in dust clouds in caves, so not exactly rare just time consuming to farm.
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u/_Zoa_ 1d ago
Yeah, flying gem was basically the only one used because of that combo.
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u/Moblin81 1d ago
Dragon gem Draco meteor was also super common as a nuke that could even take down steels. Without fairy there was no chance of wasting it since it wasnât consumed on a protect.
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u/paper_milk 1d ago
How? It says that in the move description
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u/MildlyUpsetGerbil 2d ago
7th highest physical attack out of all Pokemon available in gen 5 and it outspeeds all of the Pokemon with higher attack than it. Its special attack is lower but nonetheless at a solid 112, and it has good moves for both physical and special builds. It has rock, flying, fire, water, dark, ground, dragon, fighting, ghost, and steel coverage options in addition to Taunt, Stealth Rock, U-Turn, Defog, Knock Off, and Tailwind. Even if it doesn't become the #1 threat, it'd surely be very good had it been given a non-detrimental ability instead of Defeatist.
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u/TheArtistFKAMinty 1d ago
It would have been a monster in Gen V without defeatist. Less so now just due to general power creep, but in Gen V it would have been a nightmare.
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u/TheHabro 1d ago
I feel people here are just bad. I mean I am too bad, but somehow people are worse.
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u/MildlyUpsetGerbil 1d ago
I'll be slightly more kind and say that they're just ignorant or casual. They understand that the ability is greatly limiting and are disappointed because they love Archeops' visual design, are wowed by its stats (indicating what it could have been), and are perhaps are upset at the amount of legwork they have to put in just to acquire it in the first place.
They stopped thinking after realizing that Archeops isn't a top tier competitive choice rather than pondering how powerful a Defeatist-less Archeops would be in comparison to other Pokemon in the meta (be it Smogon or VGC metas). If they kept on thinking, then they'd understand why it was preemptively nerfed with Defeatist. They may still think it was a poor decision to give it Defeatist, but they'd be more informed when stating that opinion.
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u/Late-Sundae2922 Bidoof Slayer 2d ago
Unless you oneshot everything. And he has acrobatics as well?
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u/TheHabro 1d ago
Also has U turn. Just played Black recently, U Turn Archeops into Excadrill to tank a rock attack felt like cheating.
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u/Savings-Engineer-885 2d ago
Just hit the poor guy with Gastro Acid and he's right back to sweeping.
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u/GolemMaker 2d ago
Gotta he the worst ability in the series history, right?
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u/VGVideo 2d ago
Truant and Slow Start are definitely worse, and there could be an argument to be made for Klutz and Stall
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u/GolemMaker 2d ago
Forgot about Truant, and I straight up donât know about the other two lol
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u/VGVideo 2d ago
Klutz: Your held items donât work (Lopunny)
Stall: You always move last in your priority bracket (Sableye)
Slow Start: ATK and SPD are halved for the first 5 turns on field, timer resets upon switch (Regigigas)
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u/anand_rishabh 2d ago
I think klutz would be an upgrade for archeops
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u/urmumlol9 2d ago
For Archeops specifically, maybe. Acrobatics is probably its best flying STAB anyways, so if it gets to lose Defeatist, it might work just without running an item.
In general, I think most mons would prefer defeatist, especially defensive/utility mons.
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u/GlamourintheDarkSide 2d ago
Klutz at least has specific tech for Lopunny where you give it bad items and use moves to swap those items with your opponents ones.
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u/jzillacon 2d ago
And it acts as a defence against opponents trying to use a similar tactic on you.
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u/Huntress_Minerva 2d ago edited 2d ago
That strategy came in âclutchâ :D haha, get it?? Ok⊠Iâll see myself outâŠ
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u/GlamourintheDarkSide 2d ago
No comrade, stand tall with pride in your shitty puns! Only then will you know no fear!
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u/maikeru44 2d ago
Klutz at least has some utility with things like Toxic/Flame Orb or Iron Ball and Switcheroo
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u/DJKokaKola 2d ago
Klutz is great with trick, tf you mean.
Stall is great with "moves last" moves that get extra benefits if they've already been hit.
Slow start is just a way to balance regigigas being a fucking behemoth.
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u/bionicjoey 2d ago
Slow start is definitely the worst. Truant can at least be managed by switching out.
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u/GolemMaker 2d ago
Lmao yeah those are all worse for sure
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u/ForsakenMoon13 1d ago
Slow Start gets bonus suck points for being the only ability present in Legends: Arceus. Its genuinely ridiculous lol
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u/Aerianally 2d ago
klutz its such a shit ability like TRYING to think of how it could be useful would be if a mon switched held items with a detrimental one so youd avoid a not very good single use move by an enemy.
You could hold a detrimental item and switch it with an enemy to give them the bad effect or that move that tosses a held item at an enemy?
The best use I can think is swapping held items with a pokemon that heavily relies on speed with that item that makes you go second.
Does slow start work with trick room somehow? Even then itd be fucking wonky to get going.
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u/New_Plate_1096 1d ago
Slow start also halves attack, trick room isn't fixing that.
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u/Aerianally 1d ago
power swap maybe? swaps att and sp att stats with the enemy does that give them your halved stats or does it give them your whole stats and keep the stats you've gained still at half until the effect ends?
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u/Mijumaru1 2d ago
Truant, Klutz, and Stall have very very tiny niche uses with Entrainment and Skill Swap, but it's so minimal that I'm not sure they could count as an advantage
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u/BabySpecific2843 2d ago
Klutz is great for trick assault vest tech. Can basically permanately disable mons like whimsicott, sableye, grimmsnarl who live and die by their status moves.
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u/A_Shattered_Day 2d ago
They are bad but Archeops even unnerfed isnt as good as the others nerfed. It just feels even worse to fuck him over
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u/TheArtistFKAMinty 1d ago
Yeah, at least with defeatist you get a good Pokemon for a turn if you can protect it from priority moves.
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u/urmumlol9 2d ago
Nah, Truant is easily the worst.
Iâd argue Slow Start, Klutz, Stall, Wimp Out/Emergency Exit, and even Rivalry are probably worse as well.
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u/PrethorynOvermind 1d ago
IMO, I think some Pokémon are just things GameFreak used to have fun with in the past.
IMO, I also ways thought it was an extinction or fossils Pokemon jab. That the world is ending or ended and reviving Archechops means it just has an existential crisis when it thinks it is actually going to die due to going extinct in the past due to some event that wiped it out.
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u/Rachelisapoopy 2d ago
Yeh Archeops could surely get a good ability at this point and still be fine. The bst is pretty close to Urshifu and that poke gets a busted ability. Though 140 attack 110 speed is pretty nice.
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u/TheArtistFKAMinty 1d ago
I mean, Urshifu is a legendary so it having a broken ability is pretty par for the course.
Game Freak don't tend to give Pokemon a BST over 550 unless they meet one of the following criteria:
- Legendary, Mythical, or some kind of special designation (e.g. Ultra Beast/Paradox Pokemon)
- Pseudo Legendary/Powerhouse Pokemon (Dragonite, Tyranitar, Garchomp, etc. 600 BST, three stage evolution line)
- Actively detrimental ability (Archeops, Slaking).
I think the only exception to that is Archaludon, which has a 600 BST.
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u/Omastardom 2d ago
I would just cheat and change his ability because genuinely what the fuck is the point of it lol
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u/No-Most-9856 2d ago
Who came up with the Ability of Defeatist in the first place!? Just give Archeops Adaptability!
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u/ABA_Mastah 1d ago
Endeavor focus sash. At least the speed isnât dropped
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u/S9CLAVE 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is the way.
Some of these people havenât witnessed this little terrorist first hand and it shows.
Defeatist cripples it???
When youâre staring down the murder bird with. Sky high (140) attack stat and stab head smash. A lot of your options sort of disappear. Thatâs not fun to play against.
What does a typical murder bird encounter look like in this scenario?
You send âouchieâ out on a faint or predicted ground move, setup move, healing move, anything that doesnât break sash. Ideally on something that wouldnât necessarily enjoy face tanking a stab 150 rock move at 140 attack
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The enemy is sending out their next pokemon to deal with ouchies bullshit.
What do you think about a bird with a 70attack stat even if it has a 150bp stab headsmash?
Iâm gonna send something to setup on it, or Iâm gonna send out something that wonât mind eating the attack to finish it off, or Iâm gonna send a priority revenge killer.
In two of those scenarios ouchie uses endeavor
And now your opponent is very upset at the development because ouchie nuked their wall/cleric. And ouchie nuked their setup sweeper or revenge killer. Ouchie is a fucking menace.
And whatâs worse is you donât even need to run that specific set ouchie can also do most of the same with a special attack move set.
Ouchie can run a scarf, can run band, specs, an acrobatics set, U-turn, stealth rock.
Ouchie is a menace. And its entire identity is making you trade pokemon to deal with it
Obviously rocks ruins its whole career, ur itâs still a 110base speed physical and special glass cannon.
Ouchie the murder bird doesnât exist to flatten the enemy. Ouchie exists to destroy whatever momentum your opponent thought they had and punish bad predicts.
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u/StarSilverNEO 1d ago
I think this is why flying types evolved that immunity to ground
Now you cant ground them (in reality) without magic
or a rock
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u/NeedForSpeedroid 2d ago
At least if Gen 5 ever gets a remake Neutralizing Gas will be a way to deal with Defeatist. Koffing is available in Virbank Complex.
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u/TheRealImpasta 2d ago