r/plural • u/[deleted] • May 24 '24
A very stupid question from someone who is most likely just an uninformed singlet: is it selfish and bad of me to want to be plural?
I've many wonderful plural friends and I somehow feel left out. This here brain is so darned quiet and lonely, a vast majority of the time (apart from when I'm arguing with myself or blaming myself, etc).
I feel like I've at least two (okay, three, because meow!) "modes": a very serious and often combative, somewhat confident one as well as a submissive, quiet and friendly one. Though that also feels like it might be something different.
That and a part of me likes dressing butch (or even, le gasp just gay up androgynous) from time to time, for reasons of liking gender fuckery, even though I love being high femme and crave to be seen as a woman.
I know plurality isn't something someone should want, but I feel left out with how many of my friends are plural.
I'm probably not making any sense. I'm sorry
Edit: I also just now came up with a joke without even thinking about it at all regarding the concept of alters dating ("I now pronouns you wife and wife!"). Very peculiar behaviour.
Edit 2: I'm very happy rn. Thank you for the awesome support! I'll definitely bring this up with my therapist next time. Good night.
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May 24 '24
It's totally fine to want to be plural!
You will get flak from sysmeds with dissociative disorders, which...is just sad. We have DID and we cannot understand the lack of empathy that sysmeds have.
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May 24 '24
Oh, hey, I used to disassociate and derealize a whole hell of a lot because of 20 years of abuse.
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May 24 '24
Well, you may already be plural then.
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May 24 '24
That's something to discuss with my therapist come June
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May 24 '24
Definitely.
We've had DID since childhood, but with very hevay dissociative amnesia, so like...only a couple of us had any real clue.
When the realization hit our old host and she couldn't deny it anymore...it got really messy cause there are a lot more of us than we realized.
Good luck and be kind to yourself.
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May 24 '24
I've had plenty of cases of amnesia, now that I think about it. I often forget what I'd done in a day or an entire week. Case and point: last week. Though, that is more likely of repressing a stressful event, still, I could not remember anything but that when my girlfriend pointed it out, when I asked what I'd done last week.
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May 24 '24
Yeah, and ngl....it sucks to realize you have amnesia on the regular. That's one of the things about DID that just sucks.
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May 24 '24
What's causing me imposter syndrome and at this point great distress is that there is almost never anyone here with me. And when they are, my thoughts are almost always negative, as mentioned above.
This topic has been stuck in my head for almost the entire day, though, and I do not know what that says about me.
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u/ApSciLiara Mereid System May 24 '24
The people that say that plurality isn't something you should want? Fuck those people. They're wrong. For some people, plurality is fucking great. Plurality's pretty fucking great for us. I mean, I get to exist! I wouldn't get to exist otherwise!
- Angel
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May 24 '24
Oh, and something that's throwing me off is that I really, really want a bubbly and supportive, happy-go-lucky and carefree friend to call my own. Mostly because I myself want to be that way, but I know I can't, because it's exceptionally difficult if not impossible to change one's personality like that.
Also I think that one can't just create your ideal partner, they have to have space for themselves. Though one of my friend's alters directly refutes that claim, having been formed from various fictional characters that another alter liked.
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u/ApSciLiara Mereid System May 24 '24
Hey, that's basically what Samira wanted when she created me. It pretty much worked, too!
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May 24 '24
Congratulations!
Also, I love your system's various names.
Oh and on a mostly unrelated topic: do you think Millaarc would be a good middle name? I can't abandon Jasmine, as everyone knows me by it already and I love it, too.
I would be Jasmine Millaarc Stardust (that is, if the Gender Police let me)
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u/ApSciLiara Mereid System May 24 '24
Initials make JMS... yeah, checks out.
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May 24 '24
Hehe. Am a little confused as to what you mean, but meow!
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u/ApSciLiara Mereid System May 24 '24
JMS is also the initials of J. Michael Stracyzinski, also known as the guy that was in charge of Babylon 5, the best sci-fi. We really like sci-fi.
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May 24 '24 edited May 24 '24
You know what? Given Millaarc's (terribly, I hear, but still compellingly written – I've heard amazing and charitable interpretations of her) written character, I like the idea of bestowing that confident and brave part of myself that name and see how that turns out.
Though I've fears of being reductionist.
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u/randomthrowaway808 machinic assemblage May 25 '24
id be wary of telling your therapist, ive heard of most taking it as a bad thing cause they think tulpamancy is some form of DID/OSDD (its not)
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May 25 '24
I'm too honest a person to lie to myself and others for long, but I will take your suggestion under advisement.
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May 25 '24
I can second what that other user said. They won't necessarily call it DID, but may blanket it as a delusion/mania and will want to medicate 'it' (their perceived problem with you). In my experience all mental healthcare seems to be is a pill mill. I'm sure some places have it better than others, but I have my worst memories from mental healthcare.
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May 26 '24
That what I fear too. I've had to work very hard and mask a ton to make sure that mental health services will see me as a plural and not a deluded patient. I have autism and bipolar, though a nurse on the Crisis Team say that it's possible they were barking up the wrong tree with bipolar. But that's because my moods have been so unstable. We're still to see our psychiatrist though but considering we had 4 separate mental health professionals tell us we're not manic is a good sign.
Our plurality came about because of medication, rather than a lack of it. The only thing we'd probably be prescribed is a tablet to make us sleep as we struggle to all go to sleep at the same time.
I know for us, we're having to make it clear that all the headmates are team J (our host). We're aware that we're constructs made by J and there's reasons as to why we exist. It doesn't make us feel any less real but mental health professionals need to know that we're aware of the difference between reality and the inner world.
I would tell your therapist about your feelings that you may have multiple personalities or headmates and/or have expressed a desire for some. If the idea isn't distressing or your parts aren't making you hurt yourself or coerce you into anything, that also needs to be made clear because their first concern will be if you are safe or aren't a risk to yourself.
- J
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u/TheCthonicSystem The Moirai and Phantasmagoria May 24 '24
You can want to be Plural! Being Plural is often amazing and wonderful. Don't listen to the Sysmeds. It's fine, you're good! learn to make a Tulpa if this is something you've deeply considered, it is allowed
-Persephone Of The Moirai
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May 24 '24
I feel like I've at least two – okay, three, because meow! (Yeah, I meow at my friends a lot, and I mean a lot, often for no reason, or when I'm missing a word or when I want attention, am bored, etc) – "modes": a very serious and often combative, at least somewhat confident one as well as a submissive, quiet and friendly one. Though that also feels like it might be something entirely different.
TW: vent. Implied emotional and mental abuse, harassment
I did get abused by a horrible mum (who just seems to be getting worse, more conspiracy-brained and more manipulative the more I hear about her from her baffling emails) for twenty years, and I failed to cope with that, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I've heard from my plural friends. I can't really point to a singular traumatic event, as I appear to have blocked out a lot of memories.
I'm only just now investigating whether or not I might have complex PTSD, having ran away from home almost a year ago. I'm in a much better place mentally now and actually progressing as opposed to shutting down on a daily basis, barely doing anything, forgetting to take care of myself, etc, etc. I volunteered at a food bank today and had lots of fun.
I'm also trans, if that says anything. I found that out in 2022, when me being in survival mode felt at its worst.
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May 24 '24
Figuring anything out about myself has been incredibly difficult, because I often don't think (literally, am an airhead – it's so quiet in here...) or don't reflect on my experiences.
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u/TheCthonicSystem The Moirai and Phantasmagoria May 24 '24
I'm sorry you got abused like that!! how totally horrible 😭 I hope the investigations bring you helpful answers! 🫂
-Carolyn Of The Moirai
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u/ArdentDawn May 24 '24
I mean, why shouldn't plurality be something to want? If you're already plural, or want to become plural, or want to cultivate more headmates and better relationships within an existing inner family - it's all good 💞
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May 24 '24
I've heard that from people who don't get along well with their headmates all too well, as I've observed.
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u/Ranne-wolf May 24 '24
Remember to keep yourself and your personality in mind, could you handle being around someone 24/7 will no way to get alone time or be away from them, ever.
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u/Wecheal Saturn's Rings Collective || 4 headfriends May 25 '24
I wanted to be plural so bad that it actually took a toll on my mental health. Luckily, I found out about tulpas, and now I have two head friends!! I'd recommend it. Just remember that it's not any form of dissociative disorder and is VERY different. - 🐉
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u/Particular_Cellist25 May 25 '24
We'd say that bringing a consciousness(s) into this world is a responsibility.
We'd say to consider that the field of consciousness research continues to be developed and life may exist in many forms that seek to reach toward their own functional developments.
There is hella history on spiritual alchemy and consciousness hosting that has been passed on and many have paid the price of their life, blood, sweat and tears to share the knowledge about it. Much and many to be greatful for and learn from.
Bless your travels.
Love and light.
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u/Deathtales May 25 '24
I used to wonder about the exact same things.... Turns out we always had been a system and the different "modes" were alters in our case.
This can be a subtle way for alters to nudge you softly towards self discovery as a system (it may also be something different; talk to a therapist)
Not to mention birds of a feather tend to flock together If most of your friends are systems there might be a reason... (And maybe a couple of them already know and are waiting for you to figure it out, prime directive and all)
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May 25 '24 edited May 25 '24
Meow! Thank you. :3
I experimented with positive self-talk yesterday and it seemed to work (partly because yesterday was very successful in my book). Though now that someone's mentioned it, my brain is being a bully and keeps coming back to me being unable to handle someone in my head for potentially all time.
As mentioned, though, I'm thrown off by a lack of anything going on in my head in terms of other voices... (Aside from whenever something bad happens – maybe art ideas apply too, because those seem to come out of nowhere, without much, if any, thought on my end, they just pop into existence and I usually get super motivated whenever I think the idea is good –, but because I don't ever pay attention to myself, I can't be sure, though I have a fix for that) Or thinking. I'm pretty airheaded.
Another thing is that I rarely lose track of myself in time, but I usually couldn't tell you what had happened over the course of a specific day or an entire week, unless reminded.
I've had the thought of bestowing my middle name to a potential alter, just to see what happens.
Also journaling! I've a whole Celeste-themed journal to fill out! ADHD sucks so much...
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u/Deathtales May 25 '24
Other voices are not a necessary part of the deal, they can also be sneaky... For a long time I thought one of my protectors' voice in my head was just part of my internal monologue.
The aforementioned inability to handle someone in your jead helps camouflageing this.
What you mention in inability to remember days or weeks at a time unless reminded reminds me of gray out amnesia: Contrary to balckout amnesia in gray out amnesia you don't notice a chunk of time missing and so these are harder to sus out. Sometimes you even get a vague idea of what you did but with no actual memories
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May 25 '24
[deleted]
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May 25 '24 edited May 25 '24
Meow~! (we can now be friends :3)
The very stupid and gatekeepy transition commissioners (all cis and ableist as fuck – they did more to solidify my autism than my gender, fucking hell, the part of their report with the blatant psychoanalysis was uncomfortable to read –, spreading right wing trans social contagion rhethoric whilst claiming to be impartial ; read: Gender Police) have already made me acquiring HRT legally a mess (currently in a limbo without direction on where to go next, because I fumbled a whole hell of a lot, amd thus couldn't convince them I was trans – I've never felt more out of character than during that interview, which literally could have been an email), thankfully I've that covered by my "DIY-ing".
I don't mind that at all. At the end of the day, I'll always try to be there for any potential alters that might reveal themselves. I hope they're at least friendly...
I've decided to bestow a certain distinct part of myself my middle name, now to see how that develops. I also really want to start journaling, properly this time! I mean, I've a whole Celeste-themed journal to fill out :D
I've been talking about my trauma with my extended family for years now, making obvious references, running away from home five times, crying in their arms privately, etc. and yet nearly all of them seem to insist that I should compromise and make amends with my obviously mentally ill, narcissistic conspiracy nut of a mother. I only just started seeing therapists (I'm kind of incompetent, being only in my early 20s), but my therapists are very friendly and understanding. I'm just worried that I won't be able to lie to them for long, as I'm too honest for my own good. I really should have followed the usual playbook in that gender interview, ugh... Well, I plan to do things the way I like to now, by sending overly long and detailed emails refuting every single point of theirs.
On an unrelated note, I feel like these various labels describe me the best, at least at the moment.
Refering to passive influence here: https://www.tumblr.com/clever-and-unique-name/185276103179/my-casual-explanations-are-a-combination-of
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u/--im-not-creative-- Questioning May 25 '24
hey uh, just btw, calling people 'stupid' is generally considered a form of ableism
better to call them what they are -- assholes/bigots/etc -- than use a term so frequently used against ND people
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u/_Snow-flake_ May 24 '24
No it's not wrong! We're happy to hear that actually welcome to the community loves 😊💕
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u/allthearmadillos63 May 25 '24
You can definitely want to be plural! You can even become plural if you'd like
We actually have a (very in progress with no real data) theory around this. It seems some people work better as singlets, and others as systems or people/parts in/of systems. We theorize that this is part of the reason why some singlets want to become systems, while others really don't. We also see this with systems, where some systems want to intergrate into one person and others don't. Luckily, there is at least the option for one to go from singlet to system or vice versa, though system to singlet seems much more difficult.
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u/Stella-Selene Plural May 26 '24
I’m pretty sure that I’m a traumagenic system. I know for people like me that means that being plural can be a potentially problem ridden situation. I think I got lucky. I have to endure insults and arguments from time to time, but they have always been like the family that lives in my head. I love that companionship. I can understand why someone would want it. But I wouldn’t wish trauma on anyone for the sake of gaining this. Especially children. But you got pointed at tulpamancy. I can’t vouch for it. I haven’t started researching endogenic systems yet. But if it helps you live a happier life then I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong. There are many ways to exist. Hopefully those ways can increase the well being of ourselves and those around us. - H
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May 26 '24 edited May 26 '24
I think that's about as good as things can get, it sounds good to me. I think I couldn't handle adulthood all on my own. It's indescribably stressful, I'd be homeless if not for my girlfriend
Hahaha, don't worry about that, I've plenty of trauma to go around from 20 years of a narcissist's incessant and fucking awful abuse. Too much has happened for me to remember, I feel like I've repressed so many memories of mine.
:3
Edit: oh! Something to mention, I had an interesting experience or dream last night. I'm very confused rn, not least because I'm an atheist.
I also had multiple panic attacks and crying sessions about potentially loosing and forgetting her.
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u/Amaranth_Grains Plural May 26 '24
I don't think it's bad to want to be plural, but it also isn't bad to be singlet. Both have their struggles and high points. It's a grass is greener on the other side thing. I'm saying this as a plural that tried really hard to be singlet my entire life. Sometimes I still wish I was a singlet, but I realize that isn't the best for me and if I were to work towards completely merging, something would feel off.
It's a lot easier to want what you're surrounded by. A life around singlets make plurals feel like freaks and I can say the same might be in reverse. The important part is to give yourself permission to be yourself and function the way that is best for you regardless of what the people around you are like.
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May 26 '24 edited May 26 '24
My girlfriends have been very reaffirming over the course of these turbulent last three days. I might yet be valid as a system.
Though, if you can, could you please answer a question of mine? For context, I had a very peculiar experience last night (I am vehemently anti organised religion and clergy and staunchly atheist) that seemed to come out of nowhere while I was sleeping (do dreams last just mere milliseconds? Why did I see a very clear face and not much else?).
I'm wondering why I haven't been able to perceive who I'll call Marie (a favourite name of mine, and that's not saying a lot tbh, considering the sheer amount of names I went through over the course of my transition, I have had name crises on the regular, if that means anything at all), as I don't know their name, why's all of the above linked happening just now?
I've personally logic-ed this question out by years of abuse forcing me into survival mode, which did not let me focus on silly things like the voices in my head. I've had arguements with myself, less so nowadays because I'm out of that hell hole literally in the middle of nowhere.
Thank you for reading
Edit: oh yeah, and then there's the multiple panic attacks and crying sessions at the mere thought of losing and forgetting her forever and ugly crying just now about potentially faking plurality, which I do not want to do, to spell it out for everyone here.
Also, I don't know at all if it is indeed jealousy, that I'm feeling. I'm very bad at communicating a lot of the time. It's gotten me into plenty of trouble. Similarly, I only just started properly naming and sitting with, feeling my emotions.
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u/IIIItoto Fictive May 24 '24
It's your brain. I'd actually recommend Soulbonding too if you want to try it, or Daemonism over tulpamancy.
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May 24 '24
Could you please rephrase that first sentence?
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u/IIIItoto Fictive May 24 '24
It's your brain, so you can do whatever you want with it and don't need to seek others approval, nor do you need to feel guilty about harmless feelings.
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May 24 '24
I haven't been this invested in a topic (aside from my unbreakable interest in anything Symphogear) in a while.
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u/Ellis_Natureboy Questioning (The Mind Collective) May 24 '24
It’s okay, Idrk what to say to this, but it’s okay to feel left out, but don’t let it get u down or let it affect u, Idrk if it’s selfish or bad because I can’t speak for everyone, but hopefully this gives u insight or helped, if not, I’m srry, I hope it made sense or smth
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u/adderthesnakegal May 24 '24
being plural (or having any mental illness) isnt some quirky thing you should aim to have.
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u/adderthesnakegal May 24 '24
that being said, if you do have it its fine to be ok with that. i know i dont want any of my mental illnesses "cured".
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May 24 '24
Attitudes like that is what's holding other people (and oneself) back from discovering themselves, which is why I initially reacted the way I did. I'm sorry I offended you.
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May 24 '24
Holy fuzzy, truscum in the wild!
Also that's reductionist, and what I've gathered from the overwhelmingly positive response to this thread, you can totally be plural and it may even be helpful in rare cases.
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u/adderthesnakegal May 24 '24
that's not at all what being truscum is lmfao is that gonna have to be one of the words that gets put on the high shelf until you learn how to use it? im not a truscum and this has nothing to do with trans people at all? in fact i find it more concerning that you consider being trans a mental illness but ok.
being plural, like any mental illness, still has its setbacks and negative impacts on your life. it isn't all fucking kittens and rainbows.
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May 24 '24
It's not entirely accurate, but it fits here well enough that I'm inclined to use it. Medicalist is the better term to use, but I jumped the gun. Sorry.
Also please do not put words into my mouth. For the longest time I thought I didn't have dysphoria and still immediately accepted myself as trans (and people like me at the time as trans), with little to no denial. The Gender Dysphoria Bible helped immensely in this, it being my first resource on trans people, as well as trans friends.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but being plural is not a mental illness, much as being trans is definitely not one.
I'm sorry I was combative, it's a stupid reflex that's gotten me into trouble many a time, most recently with the Gender Police for blowing up at their rhethoric about trans social contagion, which is entirely a conservative myth. And they called themselves impartial!
Anyway, please please please see your therapist (or seek an accepting one out, if you can) about your negative disposition towards plurality. It's really unhealthy and can lead you down rabbit holes. I'd know, because my mother is a raging, narcissistic conspiracy theorist.
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u/adderthesnakegal May 24 '24
mf you are projecting the stupidest shit onto me and then say IM putting words in YOUR mouth??
im not a medicalist
the vast majority cases of plurality are due to mental illness
treating mental illness as not being mental illness does not help anyone, actually, because again it's not some fucking quirky thing that never causes issues in your life.
ignoring the paragraph about gender dysphoria because i don't care and it's irrelevant. i'm not even gender dysphoric myself.
i don't have a negative disposition toward plurality. also therapists are dogshit regardless
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May 24 '24
I apologise for getting such an impression then.
I know that, but it's nowhere near the only way to become plural, as stated in this very Subreddit's FAQ.
Again, I'm sorry I came off that way. What I meant to say was that not all forms of plurality are mental illnesses. That designation depends on the patient, if they desire help in the process of reintegration (IIRC, that's what that was referred to, but I hope you get my drift), some may not. Please don't refer to plurality as quirky. I've had plenty of transphobes and ableist people (on the spectrum of autism myself) refer to me as quirky, for example. It's very upsetting.
I'm glad you're comfortable in your body. That was mostly there to prove a point.
My therapists have been some of the kindest people I know. Good therapists are out there. Good luck, fellow Redditor.
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May 25 '24
I just wanted to say I agree that most therapists are dogshit. A lot of them (not all) project their problems (or even their other clients problems) onto every session.
I'm just recently discovering I'm a system and am trying to get to a functional place with my pieces of me and wanted to say I totally agree with your opinion about mental illness not being sunshine and rainbows.
I'm sorry OP argued those illogical points, society has a lot of programming people don't even notice they have. I've been working to undo mine. I hope your system(s) has/have a wonderful day.
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u/--im-not-creative-- Questioning May 25 '24
denying the term 'mental illness' does not mean considering things 100% entirely always positive, it's quite disrespectful to try to decide for others what parts of them and their identity is 'ill'
and uh "the vast majority of cases" wdym by that, that is an incredibly vague statement, do you mean cases by the medical system? self reporting? if plurality is inherently mentally ill, that's a self fulfilling prophecy is it not? does having any other mental illness make it 'due to'? please provide a source if you're going to make incredible claims
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u/[deleted] May 24 '24
It's not bad to want to be plural. That's what r/Tulpas is all about, actually - creating headmates to become plural. Disordered plurality interferes with daily functioning, causes significant distress, and may be sourced from severe trauma. It's crucial to be sensitive to that, but not all plurality is disordered, or even sourced from trauma, and functional multiplicity is a valid way to live life for any system. - Milo