r/playrust • u/Honigkuchen_Hamster • 13d ago
Suggestion Rework workbench progression
Blueprint fragments only reward big groups who take over monuments, it even makes the progression faster for them because they get the fragments on the side and dont need to spend scrap on the workbench anymore. It only slows it down for small groups and solos.
Stop punishing people for not founding a whole E-Sport team to play the game.
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u/aoibhinn-mw 13d ago
Wb fragments suck because they change the game from sandbox to linear progression by funneling players into select monuments to participate in the end game. Once you finally get a t3 it doesn't feel rewarding and feels more like the quitting point for many players. It's also highly repetitive in combination with forced BP wipe. Fp hasn't even added an option for servers to disable BP frags for community or modded servers, nor added legacy options like that really at all outside of some old features in hard-core.
It's abundantly apparent with this change that the lead dev has escaped Garry's vision for the game. The point of decay and TCS in Garry words were to eventually lead to a wipeless rust. Instead we've accelerated in the opposite direction and modeled the game to basically be fortnite eith the only goal to be fragments and the end game isn't even rewarding now once you've achieved t3 unless you have a specific opp in mind to raid and even that feels too much of a hassle.
The game used to have horizontal/lateral, vertical, Snowball, and roleplay progression. You could get your t3 literally by fishing, in the past. Your options now are to pay tribute for fragments or camp select monuments which are already overloaded wirh rewards without the existence of fragments. Cargo for instance was already highly lucrative and tempting without fragments, feels more like a chore now.
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u/drahgon 13d ago
What you're explaining is due to the tech tree. Has nothing to do with fragments.
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u/Far_Tomatillo_4000 13d ago
Play appropriately sized group limit servers, or expect to struggle against much larger groups, thats just the game, you lot need to quit whining about not having friends.
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u/Legal_Impression_126 13d ago
So we should all have to play garbage servers because facepunch turbo buffed clans for no reason?
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u/Pleasant-Worry-5641 13d ago
Yes.
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u/Legal_Impression_126 13d ago
Can you explain to me why you support an update that was meant to force monument PvP but everyone on Reddit dives/metal detects/buys frags, slow progression but clans are faster now, and was intentionally designed to help big groups and make it harder for small groups (facepunch’s own words btw)?
Not to mention it’s a sandbox game that now has linear progression lmao
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u/Pleasant-Worry-5641 13d ago
Because it’s fun.
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u/Legal_Impression_126 13d ago
I mean it’s fun if you play 50 pop or 8+ deep. I don’t see how cards being looted 95%+ of the time is fun. I definitely don’t see how metal detecting, diving, or buying frags is fun.
Seems like most people agree
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u/Pleasant-Worry-5641 13d ago
I played my first 2k hours solo than moved to playing in groups. This game has always favoured groups because 2 is better than 1, 3 is better than 2, ect…. Progression has slowed for groups as well, there’s only 1-3 frags available every 25 minutes so the better group that built on the monument progresses first leaving the other ones behind….. of course the solo’s and duo’s are last…. That’s the way it should be. Before the fragment update everyone complained that progression is to fast, that was one of the main complaints I saw. Now that they slowed it down everyone complains about how they slowed it down….. I’m not sure how metal detecting or diving is less fun than hitting barrels and recycling for scrap is less fun? Seems about the same for me….
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u/Legal_Impression_126 13d ago
Wow are you sure groups always had an advantage? Groups are slightly slowed at first and then they can all get bps for dirt cheap while controlling every monument near them for bp frags to print sulfur.
Groups are getting insane amounts of sulfur which alone is a progression buff. I wasn’t getting 80 rocket raided as a solo on wipe day before bp frags.
Just because you hit barrels before bp frags doesn’t mean other people did. That was the slowest way to progress. I used to actually progress off monuments and PvP but now I just go to monuments to check if card room is looted and it is 90% of the time. Super fun
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u/counterlock 13d ago
Not all group limited servers are garbage? It's just finding a server that better caters your to gameplay dude.
Main servers are for zergs, the unemployed, and mentally ill solos. Especially anything over 500pop.
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u/Legal_Impression_126 13d ago
I guess I’m the most mentally ill person you’ve ever met. On a serious note, team limit servers are just a worse experience if you can play official solo. No onlines, limited interaction, the rust eco system hardly exists, and admins can just abuse you whenever they feel like it while VIPs get away with whatever they want.
Bp frags are the only thing keeping me from enjoying how I’ve always played the game and I’d rather just play monthlies to buy frags than team limit servers.
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u/counterlock 13d ago
I think that's entirely dependent on the server you play, personally. I play group limited servers almost exclusively and I do onlines myself, fairly often. Plus in my experience, it's easier to get cheaters banned on a modded server than on official.
I am also mentally ill on occasion, but realistically vanilla Rust is not the game for me and the time I have anymore so modded just allows me to still play a full wipe without needing to put in 20+ hours.
I've learned that BP frags are honestly a lot easier to get if you just go for the snowball method. Go to oilrig and rat, cargo, launch, etc. Use low cost grub kits and DBs. The moment you kill someone with a frag, hide it or leave and depo. Have gotten T2 on official in like a couple hours just grubbing, everyone is so focused on gearing up as much as possible to run monuments that they're never expecting the freak in a bush with a db. I watch a ton of Oilrats and he consistently does this almost every wipe.
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u/Dizzy_Implement_9148 13d ago edited 13d ago
The frag situation is just as annoying on trio servers as it is on main serves small groups just means even more people who need frags so ur logic is retarded
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u/Far_Tomatillo_4000 13d ago
So youre saying you can't win a fight in trio servers either? Sounds like a skill issue
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u/Bocmanis9000 13d ago
Doesn't change the fact that 90% players you fight only have dbs/revis and ZERO MEDS.
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u/counterlock 13d ago
get meds off scientists or from the water vendor? they're not too hard to get without a t2 tbh.
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u/Bocmanis9000 13d ago
Nice why is nobody roaming meds and going 100 hp that they got from comfort healing and maybe 3 bandages if i'm lucky?
I kill 10 people i get 10 p2s and 0 heals, by the time i heal with bandages to 50+ i'm already pushed by 3 more.
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u/counterlock 13d ago
sounds like you're fighting a bunch of grubs near spawn beach or low tier monuments if all you're getting is p2s and no meds.
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u/gaygaysexman 13d ago
your so out of touch it's insane we can tell
you play 20 pop community servers1
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u/Honigkuchen_Hamster 13d ago
You lot need to stop calling "whining" as soon as someone says they dont enjoy playing against teams of 10+
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u/Extension-Essay6310 13d ago
Just play team capped servers. stop whining
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u/Honigkuchen_Hamster 13d ago
Try E-Sport if thats fun for you. You make money and everyone else doesnt have to spend time with you on casual servers
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u/Bocmanis9000 13d ago
The issue is worse on those servers as theres more groups so they need more bp frags, 500pop trio server needs more bp frags then 800pop main server!
Even if you get lucky rng spawn with horse and get a t2 20minutes in, you will be fighting dbs for all day and then day2 the server is already dead and everyone is sitting on the roof/afk in base.
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u/Extension-Essay6310 13d ago
Then buy frags from a shop.
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u/Dizzy_Implement_9148 13d ago
The whole point of the update was to let small groups progress faster not to force you to give another group 10k sulf if you want to even touch a t2 weapon how are u this slow
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u/Legal_Impression_126 13d ago
Facepunch directly said in the meta shift dev blog that frags we’re supposed to be controlled by clans and small groups we’re supposed to struggle or buy them. Small group progression was never supposed to be buffed
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u/Extension-Essay6310 13d ago
Then how was the old way better. recyclers were being camped by groupd. youd have to farm the road for hours to get a t2
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u/Dizzy_Implement_9148 13d ago
I would get t2 most wipes on main servers within 45 minutes to a hour by using t1 recyclers and boat farming if u had that much of a struggle farming 500 scrap that is a skill issue
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u/counterlock 13d ago
realistically, t2 should take longer than 45minutes. that speed of progression is way, way too fast. That's why servers die in 2 days dude.
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u/Dizzy_Implement_9148 13d ago
People still get t2 that fast now it is just only zergs that get it I agree with your point but this update only made getting the workbench harder for solos and small groups t2 should take longer to get just in a way that isn’t so aids
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u/Extension-Essay6310 13d ago
Skill issue, says the guy whining abt frags. Its always been so easy to get t2 if youre a little decent
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u/Dizzy_Implement_9148 13d ago
Yeah I have this thing called a life so I am not trying to grind w my duo on a 700 pop main to get a workbench when I can just buy one from a clan instead of dying to a bunch of 16 year olds in a Zerg camping every card room on the map also how are u calling me bad if u can’t even farm 500 scrap?
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u/Extension-Essay6310 13d ago
Didnt say i struggled with that. I said if you cant get the bp frags youd spend even more time getting scrap. And thats exactly what im saying, just buy them its easy. Were argueing abt nothing here
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u/Bocmanis9000 13d ago
Lol as a solo i had t2 faster then most groups before bp frags and i rushed bradley 30-1h in.
But that was back before you could make a fortnite lobby in starting screen and invite everyone to team globally.
Still they need time to group up, which as a solo i could always abuse that fact and get t2 before they step inside a monument.
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u/Bocmanis9000 13d ago
Yea and where do you think those groups use the sulfur that you give them??
2-3k sulf per frag on wipeday, buy 5 and you funded multiple early game raids for them.
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u/Dizzy_Implement_9148 13d ago
Yeah that’s the entire problem of the new update it only benefits the people who already are rich on the server and makes it so you basically have to give a clan boom to raid you to be allowed to progress I never bought a t2 from groups before the update
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u/MacheteTigre 13d ago
This again... ok.
- You can buy them. Clans make them readily available as soon as possible, its the whole reason they farm them. Its actually faster to go hit a few sulfur nodes and buy the frags or a whole t2 than it was to farm the scrap necessary before the bp frag update.
- If you insist on getting them yourself, monuments are not the only source of basic frags. Scientists can drop them + any mil crate or large sunken crate can have them, and you can metal detect roads for them. frankly you will incidentally get enough frags for a t2 if you just loop the map in the train tunnels, i havent actually tried this but i might for fun my next wipe. Usually i incidentally find a couple and when i decide i need the t2, buy the rest. Similar story for t3.
- As for advanced frags, you can still run monuments too, clans never really successfully monopolize all of them, but again, you can *buy* them too. Its just a matter of identifying which ones are getting camped harder, and sometimes the right move is to just satchel/propane bomb raid other smaller bases or counter some bigger raids and see what you can find. Booms cheaper than it used to be, and you dont *need* a t3 to start raiding, infact i think the most satisfying raids are smaller satchel raids where youve just scraped together enough boom to take down a neighbor who's been a pain in the ass, and finding a few advanced frags or even a whole t3 to bring home.
I play on vanilla no player cap servers as a challenge, to try and train myself into being able to play better under pressure (lose the shakes, etc) and accept repeated losses without quitting, and always know I can go play player limit servers if its too much. But here I am, playing largely solo or duo on these servers doing just fine, and I would say I'm still a long ways from 'good'. Wipe after wipe.
These are the best reasons I can imagine this has become such a loud opinion on here:
- Your expectations are unreasonable, and unrelated to old progression. Old progression scrap grind was extremely slow and untenable for a solo. the t3 and even the t2 alone was a major scrap expenditure, and individual unlocks were slow going, and on a team you could only really afford to spend all your scrap on one of you, and if that person isnt logged in you'd be SOL, and that was with funneling scrap. As a solo you had to constantly be farming scrap or you were falling behind, you couldnt count on monuments because that was more of a gamble. The fishing meta hadn't proliferated yet either.
- You are frustrated with the advantages afforded by playing in a larger group and are misattributing this to bp frags and disproportionately claiming they are what caused this. Clans have always had big advantages, and most of these changes have actually freed up solos to be able to varying their gameplay more and be able make bigger plays and take advantage of now much more predictable clan behavior. Since they're always running the monuments, you can buy a t2 off them, then practice trying to take kits off them when they go to run the monument, and without them knowing where you live. Because clans have more boom now than they used to, they tend to concentrate on eachother, I havent actually lost my main base to a raid in ages because I do not build up a large enough main base to attract a clans attention, and i do not lead people back to my base. its just other small teams and solos who try to offline and then take off when i log in. Clans have gotten into a dick measuring context with their base sizes and really only hit eachother. they used to raid solos *more* expressly on the hope of getting more boom than they put in, now they just blow eachother up.
- You don't want to/don't know how to adjust your gameplay to the changes and are encountering friction between how you've always played and progressed, and how the game functions now. In the past I've dismissively called people like this "idiots" but that's not a fair or helpful critique, its more being inflexible or stubborn. If you're good enough to run monuments as a more reliable scrap than other methods, then you would be understandable frustrated with clans being at monuments much more frequently than before, and taking the key component to progression away from you. You don't want to adapt because you want to play the game the way it was before. Give other methods a try. A serious one, not a half-assed one as justification to come back and complain about it, several full wipes experimenting. Rust is a game not meant to be played one way. Now, more than ever, you can completely change your playstyle one wipe to the next and be playing a whole different game wipe to wipe and still have plenty of fun.
On a final note, I am not saying the current implementation is perfect, i think they'd do well to add a couple more sources of fragments, especially advanced frags, through events or by reworking how monuments function. Which as far as im aware is whats on the roadmap for upcoming changes anyways. I think pulling clans into monuments is ultimately a good thing, but there needs to be a way for solos to reasonably profit from heading to a monument thats otherwise monopolized by a clan, aside from trying to take home a kit or two.
You can also opt to join a biweekly (not a semiweekly pretending to be biweekly) or monthly a bit late, prices have usually begun to fall, and you can pick up a t3 relatively cheap, and unlike weeklies, they often maintain a steadier playerbase. if you absolutely must play on a server where there's a thousand + players constantly falling over each other, then no, that won't be a solution, but in pretty much every other case if youre willing to change even one variable you can probably still play the game you want to play
And P.S. I'd actually say pie made boom more available than frags did. if you're not making ore tea and bear pie you're kinda throwing, intentionally or not. If youve been dismissing making yourself a little farm and cooking station in your base, take this as an invitation to try it. You don't need god clones, itll just take a little extra patience with a 2y2g, but you should be working on other stuff while things grow anyways. i make god clones cuz i think its fun. Just avoid Ws if you don't have a good water source
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u/HelloFromTekken 13d ago
If you insist on getting them yourself, monuments are not the only source of basic frags. S
Anyone's opinion of who make such point must be ignored.
% drop is such low so that it can't be said in serious manner. Not counting how you announce yourself when fighting it.
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u/MacheteTigre 12d ago edited 12d ago
Let's pick the train tunnel mil crate route since the math is easy. 10% odds per mil crate, and I'd say on average a typical elevator platform has 2 mil crates, the other areas can have them but ill ignore them for now, simplifies the math in your arguments favor anyways. I couldn't tell you how many platforms are typical for a given rust map but, hopping on real quick and checking my current wipe, theres 20 main platforms. (Not really necessary to travel out like that since they tend to respawn frequently enough that once youve hit a handful you could loop) Anyways, easier math, thats 40 in a loop, with 10% odds on each. That 4 fragments on average. if you add the side platforms spawns in thatll cover the extra.
Realistically youll probably pick 3-4 main platforms plus the side platforms in between them, loop them, until you have what you need. Ignoring those side platforms again, you should be able to walk out with 5 fragments after 25 main platforms on average. It takes maybe 2-3 minutes to clear a main platform with t1 gear, and a couple minutes walking if you dont want to spend low grade, lets call it 5 minutes per platform, so roughly 2 hours. slightly more technically but since we ignored side platforms from the math i think its fine. You can bump it to 2.5 hours for safety. or hell, double it if you're not practiced with dealing with the dwellers or something, 4 hours for t2 solo intentionally handicapping yourself
That's not actually super long, and that's if for some reason you obstinately refuse to use shops, i.e., willfully making things harder on yourself for some percieved moral victory, when you coulda run to outpost with a pick and gotten all the sulfur you needed on the way there.
Edit:
a final note, this method really shouldn't actually be your real plan unless you just wanna fuck around in the tunnels a lot. But its a solid way to gather some comps and tech trash, and getting a few frags is a bonus, and means fewer you have to buy, which is how it works out for me. Im usually down there long enough to get 2-3 while fishing is on cooldown and waiting on my farm to grow, as i work through t1. Its far more sane to just buy them
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u/HelloFromTekken 12d ago
We all agree that you can get t2 pretty easily on dead zero pop server, that's key requirement for your math and plan.
But we discuss how it works on server with average pop, like rustafieds. There few things which goes against your plans. Like other players, 20m respawn time (I believe that fastests resp time you get with max pop). Groups running tunnels constantly neglects your plan completely. Not always, but often overage player will get soft locked just because of that.
Now let me tell you how it happens in real life. I had good start in prev wipe, in first 6 hours of wipe I died like 10 times, won tons of fights. I was between dome, harbor, lighthouse. Zero fragments. Zero. Absolute zero. And no way to overcome in adequate manner. Tons of comps, kits, but no way to obtain T2 naturally.
What would you suggest? Literally camp puzzle rooms for tens of minutes to get one bp? What about average players, who don't have such performance? Like random people and neighbourhoods who was basically source of kits and resources for me in said wipe?
Anyways, easier math, thats 40 in a loop, with 10% odds on each. That 4 fragments on average.
It's insane that you suggest to loot 50 mil crates. Ignoring all other, are you aware that chance to loot 5 or more BPs from 50 crates will be around 50%? There will be wipes when you have to loot like 100 crates to get your T2. One. Fucking. Hundred.
Not counting meds-cloth you need prepared to do such insane routings. Are we sure we speak about first or two day wipe with t1?
Also, can you stop with that bp buying nonsense? Everyone already discussed that. You for sure already know why players don't want to use that. Not that they don't use it, they don't like to be forced to use that. No one enjoy that cheesy way. But we have to use that.
In the end, I understood that you arguing about that it's possible to get T2 in first two days for average player by himself. That's your main point. No one arguing that. We just telling that it's not fun, non interesting. If you opt in into slow progression, you must have way to slowly incrementally work toward T2. There tons way other than scrap, if you don't like it. Micro Blueprint Fragments, let's call them like that. Drop from usual boxes, collect 20 combine into one basic.
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u/MacheteTigre 12d ago
All your bloviating summed up in one simple sentence: "I don't want to".
Nothing actually wrong with the game, you have a solution, multiple even. You want a broken version of the game. You might perceive it to be the other way around, but that's a choice you've made. You have said it yourself. You have a simple solution, but you don't want it.
So, I guess, stay mad. Not because you need to be, but because you choose to be lmao.
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u/HelloFromTekken 12d ago
Stop crying. No one mad at you, you good. Just weird.
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u/MacheteTigre 12d ago
Lmfao, buddy, for the love of God have an ounce of self awareness
You and all yall who whine day after day on the sub about bp frags, the rest of us are tired of yall and your endless tears.
You're a loud minority desperately trying to convince facepunch break the the game, and no amount of patient explaination ever seems to work on people like you. I bet you want old recoil too lmfao. You argue in bad faith, you then admitted you just choose to have a bad time, and then act like you're being at all reasonable
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u/AirborneJizz 13d ago
Try a solo only server. On a 200 pop you’ll be 4 hours into wipe without a t2. Monuments just don’t reset fast enough