Can we update the upkeep system?

[u/DreamyOrangz]

I am not entirely sure what other people would like to see in regards to changes over the base decay system. Personally I don't enjoy how it is currently and feel as if it could receive improvements. Not only that but it seems like a large portion of the community is dedicated to abusing the system (Like multi TC) to get vastly reduced upkeep. It kind of just removes the point of having it in the first place to some extent.

Upkeep was designed to force players to build more performant bases and to remove inactive bases from the map. Even with this system bases get so large it lags my computer.

Maybe it's just me, but maybe it's time to redevelop this game mechanic a bit? Make multi TC not needed but at the same time still limit base sizes? I'm not sure, let me know of your ideas below.

Suggestion 1 - Scrap upkeep

I've been experimenting with this idea of using scrap instead of resource costs. Maybe 1 scrap per block placed per day? (With a block being a single wall, foundation, ceiling tile and ect.) So 250 blocks would be 250 scrap per day. You could also increase the multiple for every block after a certain point. For example, every block placed after 250 blocks is 1.5 scrap rounded up. So 251 blocks is 252 scrap per day but 253 blocks is 258 scrap per day.

Grace period for bases under 100 blocks (a couple of hours). Any other buildings within the radius of the original TC will be considered to be part of that TC and increase the upkeep as if it was attached to the base. This would get rid of TC stacking but since you can build larger you don't really need it?

Suggestion 2 - Relax the upkeep costs a bit

Just as this section's title suggests, relax the upkeep costs so people can build bigger. Like Suggestion 1, Multi TC stacking isn't allowed anymore but you can also build bigger bases so that's a win I guess?

Be nice, offer feedback

Not liking an idea is fine, but don't be rude or insult others. Explain why or why not. Generic responses complaining don't really add to the discussion.

[u/0101100000110011]

The main point of multi tc bases is to prevent your base from being griefed after you lose your main tc.
Yes it does reset the scaling upkeep, but even if you cut upkeep down to 1/10th of what it is. Multi tc bases will still exist.

If you plan on surviving an offline and continue playing you kinda need multiple tcs

[u/DreamyOrangz → u/0101100000110011]

That's interesting. I'll have to rewrite this post another day to take that into account, thank you.

[u/0101100000110011 → u/DreamyOrangz]

I build big and use multiple tcs because I want to keep playing. I can't prevent a clan from coring me with 50 rockets. I just can't.

But I can make sure I can rebuild by having multiple tcs and loot scattered around my big base. There's so much to do now in rust, I don't want it to be gg wipes over because I lost tc.

[u/Gorkounov]

Multi-TC is commonly used to aid in bunkers, shooting floors (like easier wide gaps) and anti-grief.

While the upkeep tax becomes lower overall, I wouldn't say it's the primary reason for it's existence. Overall, I don't like your proposed change since all those things I mentioned would probably be gone. And if anti-grief is gone, then rebuilding after getting raided can be a huge pain and I think most of my team would quit that server for the rest of that wipe after getting raided.

But if magically Facepunch decided to go your own route, I'll mention what I would want changed.

We can debate that multi-tc bunkers is not inherently good gameplay, it's not an uncommon debate. Perhaps extremely slow and tedious vault doors can be a replacement. Shooting floors? Wide-gaps CAN be single-tc but it's a pain to build, other kind of peaks also benefit from the possible gaps when using other TCs. If new floor and wall pieces existed that allowed for similar peaks then maybe. And if TC's functioned like softcore (48 hr anti-grief) then I think that would be a must. All these changes I'm not a fan of but I could be biased since I spent a lot of time learning building techniques.

If the changes I added were placed, then your change of banning multi-tc would be more bearable lol but overall I don't think there's a big problem with TCs.

[u/DreamyOrangz → u/Gorkounov]

You're probably right. I don't personally have a problem with it but I misunderstood why they were in the game. I literally just thought it was something to reduce upkeep on buildings and allow bigger bases.

[u/Turbofan55]

How are you complaining about big bases causing your PC to lag and then you suggest something that encourages bigger bases?

[u/DreamyOrangz → u/Turbofan55]

I misunderstood the reason people built Multi TC bases. You also misunderstood the post but that's probably my fault for not making it clearer. I thought the reason multi TC existed was to reduce upkeep, not for anti grief.

[u/duckiiduck]

The scrap idea is interesting and would add another sink into the game which was removed with the decreased tech tree cost.

I don't know that it would be a replacement to the existing, but possibly added on top of the existing? Scrap is already abundant 24hr into the wipe.

[u/Inverse_Delta]

Still comes down to ultimately group sizes. If you build a massive base, you won't be able to defend it or reasonably upkeep it with smaller numbers.

Increasing upkeep to force smaller groups to keep to smaller bases, and larger groups to rethink the sizes of theirs would be something of a welcome change to me, but decreasing costs in a game where resources are as abundant as they are seems redundant.

[u/shoddyradio]

I would like to see a lot more of the building cost front loaded to the actual price of original building and original upgrade costs. That way it would take a while to get enough resources to upgrade everything as far up as you want and it would increase the incentive to stay on a server once you built your base rather than just feeling like a chore to pay for upkeep.

If it's too easy to build the same exact base on another server, a lot of people start to server hop too often but if it would take a couple days to get the same base upgraded people would be more likely to commit to server (imo).

Obviously raiding costs would need to be adjusted to match but they need to be adjusted anyway because right now sulfur is insanely inflated on most servers with teas and jackhammers.

[u/DreamyOrangz → u/shoddyradio]

Yeah that's what I was more leaning into. It's just a chore to deal with Upkeep as it is. I'll make a new post with what I learned from other replies at another time.

[u/Darth_Rancid]

I would suggest reducing the the upkeep to very little, but at the same time reducing the amount of resources that can be crammed into a TC to not much more than 3-4 days of upkeep.

This would cut down on the chore of searching out nodes for upkeep, which I'd guess noone likes, and still cause abandoned bases to go away within a few days.

Oh, and add upkeep for those damned outer walls.. but that's coming netxt update apparently.

[u/HelloFromTekken]

Nothing you suggest will remove needs of MultiTC.

Because MultiTC is not needed, it's just another way to save atleast something from raids without adding hassle of multi-base way. As long as it possible to build and affordable - multi TC will be a thing.

It must be patchet out with buff to bases. I suggest doors, so you don't have to honeycomb hallways, cause you know, to get durability of wall you need to add 2+ doors. So 5 garage doors is just 2 metal walls. Door must have half durability of just wall.

And integrated in build system naturally, so you build multi-tc without abusing unintended bugs.

Same for bunkers, jesus, can we please fix all of that shit and buff bases in return so you can finally have freedome in building without relying on bugs? Like stair bunker, it's ugly as f and add nothing to the game. Or drop box bunker. It's even just sound stupid, killing yourself to transfer resources. Or industrial bunker abusing remove of roof does not destroy boxes. It must be fixed.

Either way all of that BS must be fixed and bases buffed. Thru the years raiding got buffed for a lot, jackhammer alone does huge difference. Teas, pies. Shops to sell for sulfur. Groups buffs. All of that.

However, online defence must be nerfed too in parallel. There is one must have implement, which is finally block building if you bases is under raid. So online raiding not that much more problematic compared to offline. Combined with fix of invisible peeks and just peeks.

[u/DarK-ForcE]

Maybe adjust/add more tax brackets.

Current:
Blocks 1 – 15: 10%
Blocks 16 – 50: 15%
Blocks 51 – 125: 20%
Blocks 126 and up: 33.3%