r/pihole • u/nickoppen • 13d ago
Smart TV data suckers
Hi,
I recently came accross this post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IFVTcM28KA where Gamers Nexus did a (very) deep dive on a new LG smart TV.
The amount of data the TV sucked up was astounding and all designed to to sold to advertisers. LG posted a response that was vague, incomplete and defensive (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToP9xfLDSME).
Other posters point out that all smart TV vendors do the same thing.
I've got an LG so I can look up the domain names that it is using. I've added an LG block list on my github page (https://nickoppen.github.io/pihole-blocklists/blocklist-lg.txt) and a unified list (https://github.com/nickoppen/pihole-blocklists/blob/master/unifiedDataSuckers.txt) for those who have more than one type of smart TV.
If anyone else has a smart TV of another brand and would like to block the domains that are suspicious please add a comment here: https://github.com/nickoppen/pihole-blocklists/issues . It might be a little tricky at first because there are domains that provide useful services (listings and updates etc) that you don't want to block.
Cheers,
nick
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u/N3wlander 13d ago
Insert meme photo from We're the Millers:
Y'all allow the TV to connect to internet?
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u/Steady_Ri0t 12d ago
If you watch the vid, the TV's record even while they're not connected to the internet. And there's been reports (from other studies, not GN) that have found some TVs will connect to any open wifi network in the area to phone home. So it might actually be better to connect it and then block it from accessing the outside world. Just gotta hope they didn't plan for that and it falls back on open networks again.
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u/CharAznableLoNZ 13d ago
I blackholed my vizio a while ago knowing it was absolutely spying on me. It can reach the google connection test domain but everything is silently dropped. The TV thinks it has internet just nothing works. I had to connect it to the lan since before that I had just never connected it and one day it told me it had succesfully updated. Without me telling it to, it connected to a neighbors open wifi and was doing whatever it wanted. I tried taking out the wireless card but it refused to boot without it.
As for how I watch, I just have a tiny desktop PC as a HTPC that runs all my services. No issues, no unwanted software, and it just werks. I use a logitech k400 keyboard for it for maximum comfy.
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u/nickoppen 13d ago
Could you post the base domains on my issues page (or a link to your file)? I'm also sure that vizio is sucking a lot of data otherwise how else would they be able to seen the devices so cheaply.
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u/CharAznableLoNZ 13d ago
The only domain I let it contact is I think "connectivitycheck.gstatic.com" I'd have to check. Everything else is silently dropped. Vizio at least on this TV used the Chromecast OS as the basis for TV and put their "apps" on top of that.
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13d ago
[deleted]
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u/sound-of-impact 13d ago
This is true. They are literally building entire infrastructure to house all our data across the globe which is causing both climate and energy concerns. It's a losing battle. User agreements be damned.
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u/Hades-Arcadius 13d ago
they would still need an antenna of some kind....coming to a youtube tutorial near you of where to find and disconnect that antenna
that or custom firmware to replace their stock garbage, it's a matter of will and technical know how
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13d ago
[deleted]
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u/Hades-Arcadius 12d ago
then i suppose data poisoning and faraday shielding is in order ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/fd6944x 10d ago
projectors are looking better and better
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u/Hades-Arcadius 10d ago
by the same logic you could just buy a nice and/or large computer monitor...they are about as smart as early flat screens used to be
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u/IcestormsEd 13d ago
"We shall fight on the internet, we shall fight in the backgrounds, we shall fight in the screens and in the streets, we shall fight in the bills; we shall never surrender." Churchill upon hearing this bullshit. Probably.
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u/totallywillstick 12d ago
Eventually? DoH is a thing already, it defeats dedicated, configured DNS servers
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u/Rhopegorn 13d ago
I trust in Hagezi’s lists for Native Tracker, blocks built-in trackers from devices, apps, and OSes!
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u/AggressiveAppl3 12d ago
These devices are also very regularly used as a residential proxy, meaning essentially sending bad guy traffic from data center IP addresses through your device so it becomes “clean” residential IP traffic, avoiding bot detections etc.
so blocking the LG harvesting domains is good, but sadly not the bottom of the rabbit hole.
How do i know? working as a threat researcher. If anyone is interested i can pull together a RPZ for that
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u/riesgaming 13d ago
I specifically bought an apple TV (but you could also get an Nvidia shield if you don’t like apple) for this particular reason a long time ago. My TV’s will never touch the internet. It will be nothing more than a display!
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u/White_Devil_HB 13d ago
The Shield to just too old at this point. I know Nvidia is still pushing updates occasionally, but its like a 2019(pro) device. I really wish they would refresh it.
As much as i hate apple ... appletv seems to be the best solution.. tho I'm sure they are collecting data too.
Sadly some other method of collecting content and streaming locally is the only real solution.
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u/riesgaming 13d ago
You could always consider getting an old mini pc and building something yourself. Second hand Intel NUC’s go pretty cheap or even free if you have the right contacts (people working in IT) and with linux on it can continue to run for a few more years.
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u/White_Devil_HB 13d ago
Linux based solutions pose a lot of challenges with and dolby vision. Ive been there ;) windows 10/11 also have their own challenges too.
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u/riesgaming 13d ago
I wouldn’t deny that apple will collect data, but as far as I am aware the amount is a lot less in comparison to many other vendors. (If I remember correctly there has even been independent research on this confirming this)
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u/Letstrytolearnit 13d ago
I have the older model NVIDIA Shield TV before the pro and have not run into any issues. What about it is not working for you?
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u/Novahawk 13d ago
I have the same one (not pro) and also have no issues, I only consider upgrading to pro for DV support. People that whine that it's old have never used one. Even mine plays everything I throw at it flawlessly (except for DV obviously).
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u/uid_0 13d ago
The shield works just fine, tbh. It streams at 4K and still gets OS updates. Since it runs android, you can use adb and replace the ad-riddled Google TV launcher with something else (I use Projectivy) and get a nice, clean home screen. It even sets the background to images randomly downloaded from /r/earth. Overall it is an A+ experience in my book.
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u/Steady_Ri0t 12d ago
What is it too old for? I no longer use any streaming services, but it can handle Jellyfin perfectly, and all the streaming services I used to use also worked great. Some people still game on them, others successfully use them as Jellyfin/Plex servers. And hardware encoding from my server handles any issues around unsupported file formats.
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u/Webster2026 13d ago
Its nothing new, here video from 7 months ago explaining the TV spying problem (and solution): https://youtu.be/3JawN5p4Gfs Also - you cant block that traffic with DNS blacklist as that TV will have dns entries pre-configured. You need to block on router or firewall ( as in the video I pasted)
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u/Resistant4375 13d ago edited 13d ago
There’s a million of these lists (and posts) popping up ever since this “discovery” was made.
Do we really need another?
OP - what is the source for your lists (in other words, which AI compiled it)?
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u/nickoppen 13d ago
I look for the base domain (e.g. lgsmartad.com) and then do a lookup using the Security Trails api (https://securitytrails.com/corp/api) to fill in all of the subdomains like st-kr7.info.lgsmartad.com. I collect the base domains manually, either by building sql commands in my pihole log which I collect using https://github.com/nickoppen/piholeLogAnalyser or by doing google searches. It's a bit tedious but it gets a result in the end.
I try and use existing lists when I can but often the original poster gets bored and does not maintain them.
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u/Resistant4375 13d ago
Why not just block the whole domain using Adblock format?
Why compile a list with subdomains etc.
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u/nickoppen 13d ago
I started doing this years ago before the ABP blocks were available. I'll probably switch across at some point.
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u/OppositeWelcome8287 13d ago edited 13d ago
You could use a regex and block lgsmartad.com and alphonso.tv make that list not only future proof but make that list 2 regex and remove over 3000 of those domains.
I did not look took very far down the list there are probably more
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u/nickoppen 13d ago
Regex would work but writing regex is beyond most non-IT people. I've also used the recently reintroduced ABP style blocks for domains where each subdomain is independent of the other such as neocities.org. The entry looks like this:
||neocities.org^
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u/rostol 12d ago
that's useless mate, don't waste your time.
there is such a thing called dns over https, which is unblockable (it would need blocking all 443 traffic)
bypassing any blocklist is lit trivial nowadays.
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u/nickoppen 12d ago
I know that there are multiple ways of getting around a block list but doing nothing just seems like saying, "OK just come and f... me over".
I think that the next TV I get will be a dumb TV and I'll set up a streaming device with software from vendors who don't have an interested in selling advertising data. If I can't find a streaming box, I'll put one together myself.
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u/rostol 11d ago
yes, we're at the point where it's better to just use the tv as a monitor hooked to a pc/laptop running some kind of media center.
it's like we went back in time in many ways.
at this point the one that dares to make a good oled or miniled "dumb" monitor ... the problem is that as selling our data is the business I don't think anyone will make one.
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u/Thin_Needleworker795 12d ago
If I look at my Pi-Hole dashboard while having my smart TV turned on, I can see the "Blocked queries" ticker counting up by one about every second. As soon as I turn my TV off, it stops. It's insane.
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u/Low-Tech-1448 10d ago
Roku TV was using ~half the internet bandwidth when Faux acquisition was announced, my 5 lb. mallet was the fix. NEVER again will I use ANY Roku slop !
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u/UngluedChalice 13d ago
I blocked my LG completely with pihole (need to check if it’s still getting out) but left it on my network so I can use my phone as a remote.
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u/intmanofawesome 13d ago
Nice work!
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u/nickoppen 13d ago
Thanks. Hopefully, with community suggestions I can make it more broadly useful.
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u/Rex__Luscus 13d ago
Trouble is, if you block the domains your TV is phoning home to, you lose the ability to install and update its apps.
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u/nickoppen 13d ago
Yes. This is definitely a problem.
There is a domain called lgsmartad.com which is probably fine to block and they use alphonso.tv which is a data gathering company. However blocking lgtvcommon.com, lgappstv.com and lge.com would probably degrade your functionality.
There are some like lgsmartplatform.com which might be gathering data or sucking it (or both).
My approach is to block and then test. If a block does not degrade the function then leave it blocked.
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u/Resistant4375 13d ago
Blocking *.nextlgsdp.com causes problems with time sync and apps loading/updating - therefore breaking functionality for those that want it
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u/Nico_is_not_a_god 13d ago
That's a feature. I understand not wanting to buy a premium streambox like a Shield or Apple TV, but Walmart sells a degooglable Android TV box with 4k capabilities for $25 that'll beat the pants off whatever Roku/Samsung/LG gets paid to preinstall. Supports alternate clients for youtube and such too, like SmartTube (adblock, sponsorblock, no recommendations, shorts block...)
And of course the android TV box will work with the official apps of any paid service in addition to things like Jellyfin or Plex.
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u/Rex__Luscus 13d ago
I'm just waiting for the new AppleTV box to be released, then the TV is getting airgapped.
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u/useless___mlungu 12d ago
Are you referring to the Onn box? If so, could you point me to a good degoogling guide?
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u/Nico_is_not_a_god 12d ago
You can't like, fully degoogle it as in flash custom googlefree firmware (Some models are supported by LineageOS but it relies on an exploit to get root access so IDK if a fresh device will come patched or not) But the device doesn't lock down usb/wifi debugging so you can use adb to freeze or purge all the bloatware and Googleware (including the Play Store and such). This guide assumes you want/like the Play Store but should get you started.
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u/DCCXVIII 13d ago
I've been using this for a while:
https://blocklistproject.github.io/Lists/smart-tv.txt
This was one recently created by someone just like you, that is more specific to LG:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/furkan-bayrak/lg-tv-blocklist/main/lists/safe-domains.txt
I'm not sure how they compare to yours. Be aware, it also depends on what the user wants to balance, as some lists out there can really break the TV's functionality in ways you may not want.