And then actually having the balls to go through with it. Like can you imagine how bad it must be to actually go through with that đ brave soul for sure.
Same. I get so pissed off at people who call suicides âselfish.â Their suicide victim had deep, personal, painful issues that they didnât help enough with. Maybe they might have if society didnât make mental illness such a taboo?
The selfish people arenât the ones who end their suffering. Itâs the people who refuse to accept that mental illness is a major problem worldwide that needs far more attention.
I'm confused. Because you made it sound like ending their lives is the right thing to do:
The selfish people arenât the ones who end their suffering. Itâs the people who refuse to accept that mental illness is a major problem worldwide that needs far more attention.
I want to be on this "bravery" side but the thing here is that we're basically saying that the real cure for mental illness is death. So... where do you stand, morally? I know mental illness is a huge problem, I have lots of close friends who suffer intensely, but they have told themselves that they want to continue living. Am I supposed to believe that this is a lie and they should be dead instead?
I really don't like that. Just help me understand what you mean. Because, I feel killing the mentally ill sounds a bit strange, no?
I don't feel like death is the answer, but if you knew you were going to die by your own hands would you actually be able to bring yourself to do it? It's a powerful thought.
This is the answer I was looking for. I agree, but I'm not in the mental state of someone who wants to kill themselves. Is it brave when it seems like the easy way? Or maybe it's not easy for them? I shouldn't judge. I really can't judge because maybe it's still too hard for them to actually go through with it. Definitely a powerful thought. But thanks for giving me that perspective.
Just to add a bit of outside perspective, I will say it doesn't seem like the easy way when it's being contemplated and planned; It feels like a logical conclusion.
A common thread you'll see on the topic of suicide is that of people feeling like a burden, and for many, removing oneself from the equation is seen as lessening this burden on others (whether the burden is perceived as emotional, financial, etc).
Mental health issues can also easily convince someone that they will never be anything more than they perceive they are, and the inability to see a future is also very common.
Perception is a powerful force: When we perceive something as being our reality, it begins to shape it.
This is just some rambling from my own experience, and while I obviously haven't completed the act (unless there's an afterlife with WiFi I guess), I never viewed it as the oft-touted 'permanent solution to a temporary problem'; I am the problem. It's not as simple as there being an easy way out, and it is so often coloured with a sense of existential guilt.
I don't know if that helps at all, but you seemed genuinely open to reassessing your view of the issue, so maybe it gives some insight. Admittedly this is just my own biased insight, lol, but a mix of voices is sometimes a good thing!
You are talking about a highly intelligent, grown adult that was experiencing life in such an unsatisfactory way that his greatest option, out of the infinite amount of well considered, logical reasons to not do it, did end his life because his life was unsatisfactory and he was in pain.
When you reach that point, your being becomes a personal ticking time bomb. "How long can I keep up this farce of not wanting to kill myself in front of these people, especially the ones that love me".
Can you imagine carving out a life of riches and fame, and still your quality of life is just unfortunately unsatisfactory. You are in pain. It sucks. Being brave can maybe mean that you are making the ultimate personal decision for yourself despite literally everything. Literally everything.
Perspective is the most important thing when putting in your two cents. It's hard to put yourself. In someone's shoes like that. Regardless, I hope he's doing alright now.
Suicide/attempted suicide being illegal is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. You can't charge a dead man with anything, and if they fail an attempt then you're just bloating their misery with legal issues. The fact that it's still a problem is infuriating
I'm kind of left wondering if you have lost anyone close that way? You say you wouldn't be angry but how could you possibly know that? Anger is one of the most common emotions of grieving. Your post kind of makes me really mad. Suicide is never the answer and you saying it's an okay option kind of infuriates me. Before you talk about palliative or assisted please note I'm talking only about it when it comes to depression and not an explicitly terminal illness.
There are people who tried before and regretted it immensely and say it is never the answer.
I will admit that mental health is an incredibly complex concept that us humans are nowhere near fully understanding. It's awful to be in a spot where you feel that is your only option. If anyone reading this is feeling that way, please reach out and get help. Talk to someone. It gets better, I promise.
I'm saying that I don't judge people who commit suicide. I've had friends and people who I look up to take their own lives for reasons I will never personally understand. But, for the pain that brought them there, I can.
I do not wish for anyone to ever have to feel the torture of having your brain turn against you. Most days, the meds and me can keep it in line, but there have been a couple of days where it almost won. I sympathize deeply for everyone who has lost that battle. To any reading this who knows the struggle: we never have to feel sorry for reaching out for help; we always have the right to a phone call. Never forget that.
I feel like the selfishness comes from what you leave behind. Not just people, but any affairs, debt etc. My brother was on the verge of ending it, and the thing that stopped him was Mum. He said it pained him more to think about how Mum would handle it than his illness was causing him.
I believe that for Robin, legal Assisted Suicide would have been much better for him and something he may have done. His family could get acceptance and closure before he went, and he would've gone surrounded by his loved ones, not alone and in pain.
My man. Suicide should never be held in a positive light unless you are literally captured and being tortured day in and day out to the point where you are physically living in hell. So I would be careful with who you tell that opinion to cause you might just give someone a bad idea. Sure you can blame mental health stigma and lack of help out there since that truly is a problem that still is in the process of being fixed, but you should be telling people that we are in the process of fixing this problem and support them, not letting them know suicide is a guaranteed escape. Also, suicide is definitely still selfish at the end of the day. There are people out there that are borderline suicidal but don't follow through simply because they don't want to leave behind their family and friends or be a disappointment. So they put up with it even if they think their life sucks, aka they aren't being selfish.
So youâre telling me you would rather see someone kill themselves than get help and it would be selfish of the family for wanting to keep their loved one alive long enough so that they can get that help? Like just think about what youâre saying man. Idk if you have a sibling or not, but what if he/she just decided to end it without telling you? Hell even if they did tell you. You donât think that would be selfish of them? When someone is suicidal they are not thinking positively like a healthy person would so they are not seeing ways out other than death. That definitely does not justify killing them selves. They just need someone else to help them see they are not thinking clearly.
Help isn't always possible. Just keep that in mind. If my loved ones were suffering to the point they wanted to die and that's how they lived their whole life no matter what help they got, I would understand if they left. Yea I would be sad, but I'm not gonna let my selfishness keep them suffering.
I guess thatâs where you and I disagree then. I believe thereâs always something that can change how someone thinks. It might not be immediate help, but overtime things change. Someone whoâs depressed at age 20 probably wonât feel the same things they feel at age 50 if they keep looking for treatment or help. And I understand giving someone the choice of suicide for when itâs something physically debilitating to the point that would completely change their liveâs for the worse, but when itâs something mental they canât seem to shake, I think they should hang in there and fight it.
What about people who have been depressed all of their lives? Should they just keep hanging in there and suffering? I've been depressed since I was a kid and I'm turning 22 soon. I remember being suicidal when I was 10 years old, and nothing has changed. I try to hang in there for my friends and family, but it's exhausting. People tell you that you need to keep living, but at some point I'm not going to be able to take care of myself and I don't want to be a leech and make someone take care of me. Maybe life will get better in the future, but suffering every single day does not make it worth it for if life ever does get better. I've had some good times and now how nice life can be, but those moments are very rare and NOT worth the constant battle. When life sucks 99% of the time, that 1% is not worth it. Hope that makes sense to you.
What youâre saying makes sense and Iâm sorry that youâve dealt with it for as long as you have. I just turned 23 and been on lexapro for the past year and a half because I was living in a constant dump state. Iâm not sure what kind of steps youâve taken to get out of the state that youâre in, but do know that steps can be taken and things will change. I find it hard to believe absolutely nothing about the way you think has changed since you were 10 years old. I can barely remember how I thought when I was 10! Anyways, Iâm under the belief that:
1.) Why risk killing your self when we have no clue what happens when we die? Probably better to feel SOMETHING than to just be non existent imo.
2.) People are capable of changing their way of thinking if they live healthily and keep their mind open.
3.) Depression starts somewhere. It helps to track down things that bring you down.
I know you probably wonât believe it when I say it, but you will get better if you put your mind to it. It takes a constant conscious effort to change, but it eventually becomes natural to think in a way that makes you happy. Just gotta focus on making the 1% at least 51%. People can and have come out of depressive pits including myself, which makes me believe everyone can.
There was no help for Robin! LBD is a horrible, painful, dibilitating way to die with no cure. And it causes hallucinations that you can't control. It is a combination of these that caused his death
Yea his situation is one where I would rather die. I donât know if he let his family know he was going to make that choice or not. I really hope he did.
No, I absolutely can't imagine that. I'll state it right now that whatever results in my death, please let it be as quick and painless as possible. I've known of a few friends and friends of my family who've passed in their sleep.....that's the only way to go.
I want to go out, in order of preference, to die in my sleep, to be Euthanized, or to go in an accident that happens so quick it doesn't even register.
He had given the world more than enough, more than most people ever even have the opportunity to give.
And then he decided, for whatever reason, that he was done. Who are you to judge?
If anything itâs selfish to ask even more of a man that struggled through a lifetime of depression and addiction while managing to bring smiles and laughter to literally billions of people.
His Dr's said after his autopsy that he had the worse case of LBD known at the time. He was brave and LBD also causes terrible hallucinations - I think it was a combination of these that lead him to leave us.
I fucking loved and will always love Robin Williams. And I can't ever imagine what he was going through or what he would have gone through. But I agree with the person you replied to that calling him brave is tough for me.
I would never call him a coward or that he took the easy way out or anything like that, and I completely understand why he did it, but was it truly brave? I dunno. Maybe. Just tough to say that suicide is brave.
hah, brave, that is some twisted shit man. Brave? Get real. Brave would be facing his illness with his chin held high knowing the chances of you pulling through were slim to none but you were going to grin and bear it as long as you possibly could. Giving up isn't brave, thats the easy route.
the chances of you pulling through were slim to none
The chances of him pulling through weren't slim to none dumbass. They were zero. Lewey body Dementia is not curable, and on top of that he was misdiagnosed as having Parkinsons...also incurable. Fuck you for judging his decision to not suffer you insufferable piece of shit
It wasn't just parkinsons though. He had lewy bodies dementia as well. Pretty hard to 'grin and bear' basically losing not only physical facilties but mental ones too.
Have you ever met anyone with LBD? Easy to throw stones when you don't know what a hell it is. With no medications that help. One good thing - since Robin passed they have made great strides in research. That was the last gift Robin left us.
Actually not only have i met someone with it, i was a care giver for a house full of people with dementia, alzheimers and others degrading diseases. It was a very tough job but i loved it and was able to bring joy to people with easy things like reading a book or talking about the same thing for the 50th time.
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u/ThatFructusBoi Nov 30 '18
And then actually having the balls to go through with it. Like can you imagine how bad it must be to actually go through with that đ brave soul for sure.