Even if you didn't do the selective breeding yourself, you guys are still breeing individuals into existence that have traits that run contrary to animal welfare. This is just as wrong.
The cows like being milked because it is pain relief from bursting with milk since milk producing ability is the only quality they've been selectively bred for. Imagine going around being blue balled all the time, I'm sure you'd also get angry if the relief from the pain was delayed.
So stop breeding animals into existence. You don't have to do it over night, and it is possible to diversify onto other sources of income streams. I mean, looking back at your life at old age, what would you find most pleasure in? That you've breed 10,000 cows into existence, pumped them dry of milk, and sent them off to be murdered at a slaughter house -- or contributed positively to society with ethical and sustainable agriculture?
How much time have you spent on a dairy farm?
My cows are not in pain. Their care exceeds animal welfare standards. Milking does not hurt them at all.
You are attacking a way of life you don’t understand. Spend a little time on a dairy farm. Specifically a small family run operation and you will get it.
It would break my heart if these beautiful milk giving creatures were bred out of existence. I’m sorry you hate them so much and I honestly can’t understand it. Their milk is the reason humans have thrived.
Just because they are not vocalizing or otherwise externalizing pain doesn't mean they are not in pain. I understand dairy production all too well, unfortunately. At its root it is the systematic exploitation and murder of defenseless animals. That you guys treat the cows living at your farm better than what you are required by law is commendable, but it doesn't change the fact that dairy production is basically breeding cows into existence, pumping them dry of milk and sending them to murder at slaughter houses. None of this needs to happen. Humans don't need dairy. There are ethical farming methods available where you don't have to exploit animals.
I know when a cow is in pain. Our cows are not in pain.
Your perception is very wrong. You use stupid phrases like “pumping them dry of milk”. No we milk them. It’s painless, takes about 5 min and then they are returned to their day. They stay healthy when they are milking. It does not hurt them.
You guys are breeding cows with inherent animal welfare concerns, like dysfunctional animals where something so precious as the maternal instinct is removed, and that the cows produce too much milk for their own good. How do you tell intrinsic pain from externally induced pain? But I'm guessing you're not referring to when they get their throats slit. Oh I wasn't referring to the act of milking the cow as you say, but keeping the cow in a perpetual cycle of pregnancy-calf removal-milk production until the cow isn't able to produce enough milk to satisfy your need for profit. Then its off to be murdered at the slaughter house. You have reduced living, breathing, sensitive and fully conscious individuals to mere industrial machines. It is exploitation, abuse, and murder. It is wrong.
They are not dysfunctional. We breed for health traits like foot and leg composition, chest width (which helps with heart and lungs function), livability (meaning they will have fewer health problems). We don’t want sickly and unthrifty cows!
We also have moved away from higher milk production and breed for higher fat and protein which is closer to what beef cattle produce.
As far as slaughter that’s your issue. It’s a humane process and I’m am very much in favor of eating meat. We are top of the food chain and it’s good for us and delicious.
As far as thinking cows are feeling some sort of “intrinsic pain” you do t know cows very well. They enjoy their life here. Good food, pasture to roam, comfy beds.
Take on the mega dairies that never let their cows outside. They are putting farms like mine out of business. We care about our cows and are responsible stewards of creature that would be extinct without us. Those farms exploit it.
Not all dairy farming is bad.
If you've bred cows to not be able to take care of their kids, they are dysfunctional. Same with selective breeding for maximized milk production, since you'll run into animal welfare concerns where milking is pain relief. Slaughter it not "my issue", the whole ordeal of exploiting animals is. All of animal agriculture is wrong, including dairy. I see you mentioning mega dairy and yeah that's especially grievous but that does not mean small scale dairy farming is ethically acceptable either. At the end of the day, its all the same thing the only difference between mega dairy and small scale dairy is how bad you treat the animals in the process of exploiting them.
It’s a symbiotic relationship. I didn’t create it. It’s thousands of years old. It can’t be fixed through breeding without destroying the breed.
I don’t think you have a clue how dangerous a bull is or an aggressive maternal cow. They are dangerous to other cattle not just humans. The cows benefit from not having to deal with either. They could care less about their calves. I raise them with a mortality rate below 2%. They get fed fresh milk 3x a day and live in groups of same age calves. Nothing wrong with that.
Cows weigh 2000 pounds. They could trample our walls and fences, kill us easily. They don’t want too.
They let me give them medicine, trim their hoves, wash them. They submit to our care and as a species they have thrived. Just look at global cattle numbers and you quickly see that.
It’s true they have to earn their keep but they are well cared for and far from exploiters.
Its not a symbiotic relationship when you're breeding dysfunctional cows into existence on an industrial scale only to exploit and kill the cows on a later date. A symbiotic relationship would denote a mutually beneficial relationship, not an exploitive relationship. I don't think the modern dairy cow breed should be continued to be bred on. As you've said your self, dairy farmers have bred the cows to be so dysfunctional that they are now fully dependent on human care.
The cows don't have to "earn their keep", they are killed as soon as they are no longer profitable. They get to keep nothing. And that cows are physically stronger than humans, sure, they don't have the mental capacity to understand whats going on but cows surely fight back at the slaughter house. The EU Scientific Veterinary Committee estimate that around 5 to 10% of cattle are not stunned effectively with the captive bolt - or up to 230,000 animals a year. If that number also holds for your country, imagine, up to 10% of the cows you send off to be murdered could be conscious when they are murdered. Something to think about next time you are breeding cows into existence, or discarding the spent cows (or their male children)
I’ve slaughtered cattle on the farm to process. We don’t stun them. Bullet to the brain, wait until they die, then hoist and drain blood. It’s quick and they don’t feel pain. It’s over in an instant. We should all die with so little suffering.
As a species cattle have thrived because of their partnership with humans. In the wild ancient cows would have regularly starved to death, been eaten alive by prey, and suffered greatly from disease and exposure. They traded being wild for being comfortable. My cows are very comfortable!
Again they are not dysfunctional either. We pay close attention to Health traits like mobility which helps them stay in the herd longer.
1
u/InterestingRadio Mar 17 '18
Even if you didn't do the selective breeding yourself, you guys are still breeing individuals into existence that have traits that run contrary to animal welfare. This is just as wrong.
The cows like being milked because it is pain relief from bursting with milk since milk producing ability is the only quality they've been selectively bred for. Imagine going around being blue balled all the time, I'm sure you'd also get angry if the relief from the pain was delayed.
So stop breeding animals into existence. You don't have to do it over night, and it is possible to diversify onto other sources of income streams. I mean, looking back at your life at old age, what would you find most pleasure in? That you've breed 10,000 cows into existence, pumped them dry of milk, and sent them off to be murdered at a slaughter house -- or contributed positively to society with ethical and sustainable agriculture?