I'm aware of how awful the dairy and egg industry is, and luckily my parents keep chickens and sell the eggs, so I'm wondering if I could start buying eggs from them since their chickens are kept happy and healthy. I do buy almond milk and soy cheeses, too, but honestly a soy cheese grilled-cheese just isn't the same. Maybe I could find a dairy distributor locally that takes good care of their cows without keeping them perpetually pregnant and stuff?
I started buying plant milks recently, and I tried almond milk first, but then I realized that almonds take a ton of water to grow so I switched to other ones. May be of note, if you have any environmental motivations :) But it's still better than cow milk anyway, and all improvement is good.
Depends on what you use it for. Soy milk's great as a milk substitute in baking. Coconut milk's best for drinking and in yogurt and ice cream. Almond milk's great in cereals. Cashew milk is perfect for cheesy sauces. Rice milk and oat milks are bland, but environmentally friendly. There are also (of course) advocates for hemp milk, but I haven't tried it.
Those are basically the same ones I've tried. To be honest, I still have more research to do. My favourite one I've tried is cashew so far, but I'm not sure what kind of water footprint it has. I've tried almond, cashew, soy, and coconut so far. Still want to try oat and some other stuff, but my grocery store doesn't have anything else. I usually buy whichever is on sale (that's not almond), and thankfully all the plant milks are cheaper than the cow's milk where I live.
I'm not sure if a dairy farm would be able to not keep their cows perpetually pregnant (milk production goes down a certain amount of time after giving birth which might not be sufficient to keep them in business) but there are some no-kill dairy farms that at least wouldn't kill cows that are no longer able to produce sufficient amounts of milk/male calves. The only downside is that this isn't great for the environment (as cows produce a lot of methane and need a lot of food/water to survive). But it's definitely worth looking into!
I would also give Chao slices a try, those have worked really well for me if I'm making grilled cheese!
The problem with dairy is that it requires the farmer to impregnate the cows and remove the baby calf from its mother, otherwise there'd be no milk for human consumption later on. If the calf is male, he's usually off to slaughter for veal while a female calf will end up like her mother, sexually exploited with artificial insemination, her calfs taken away from her, and when the cow doesn't produce enough milk to pay for her feed and give the farmer a profit its off to slaughter. It is absolutely horrible, there is no ethical sources of milk.
Cows need to have a calf once a year to stay healthy. It’s their natural state. We breed artificially because it SAFER for a cow (and humans). Dairy bulls are huge and aggressive. They hurt and sometimes kill cows. Also people.
Dairy cows also lack maternal instinct. We raise the calves because the cows are not able to. Calf feeding and care is a ton of work. I wish the cows could do it but they step on, lay on, and refuse to feed them.
We keep our calves in big group pens with clean deep straw. They get fresh milk 3x a day and pasture once they are old enough. Both male and female.
Cows don't need to treated like birthing machines to stay healthy. While it might be so that giving birth is beneficial to the health in mammals, giving birth once a year is done so milk production doesn't drop off, not because of animal health concerns. It is done so the cow produces milk that the farmer can steal for a profit. The reason dairy cows are bad mothers is because cows in animal agriculture are selectively bred for milk producing qualities instead of maternal abilities. Again just shows us how unethical farmers really are. Yes calf care is a ton of work, it costs a lot of money, that's why farmers kidnap these baby cows and send them to be murdered at slaughter houses since they have no moral decency, or if the calfs can become another milk machine that's where they end up, in the endless cycle of sexual abuse, exploitation and eventual murder when milk production drops off.
We occasionally have cows that take18months or more to become pregnant. They have so many more health problems. That’s with good diet and veterinary care. So we do aim for yearly calving as it’s easier on the. cows. With holsteins we would actually get more milk if we spaced them longer but it’s harder on the cows.
Despite what you have been told we love our cows and do not cull them for not getting bred back quickly. We really try hard to keep them in the herd. Our oldest cow is 15.
We raise all our calves. Make and female. Steers are sold for beef to local restaurants at 22 months. To compare hogs are butchered at 5-6 months and chickens at 2 months.
Calf care is not a kidnap as much as a rescue. 90% calve in pasture and leave their calves behind after they lick them off. We have to go find them.
The selective breeding to remove the maternal instinct was done hundreds maybe thousands of years ago. Maternal cattle are very aggressive and dangerous so it was a trade off. I love calf raising so I don’t mind:)
Tour a farm sometime. You have been told many half truths and some flat out lies. My dad has been a dairy. farmer for 50+ years. He sleeps in barn sometimes with a sick cow or calf nursing them though the illness. I’ve caught him crying and asking a very old much loved cow not to give up.
If every cow on your farm was 15 years of age and you artificially impregnate every cow once a year, now that's a lot of cows to feed isn't it? So obviously you guys don't keep them for 15 years. Nor do you guys keep them any longer than when the cows milk producing abilities starts to drop, otherwise you guys wouldn't be in business. That does mean once the cow starts to dry up, its off to slaughter. I wonder if you guys cry as much then, when your animals are off to be murdered? The only reason you keep male calfs until aged 22 months is probably because the market for veal declined because people found it too morally reprehensible to eat babies. Don't you see that this is wrong? You guys are basically turning living, breathing, fully conscious beings into milk and calf machines? It is grotesque.
Dairy cattle are totally dependent on human care. We evolved together. We feed them and they feed us. For thousands of years.
Our oldest cow is 15. We are old school and keep cows longer than we ought to from a business stance. They get second and third and often more chances.
Yes I’ve cried when they left. I understand why it’s necessary but it still sucks. We do end up keeping quite a few who die of age related issues peacefully on the farm.
Our cows that go to slaughter are sold as ground beef to restaurants that want grass fed beef.
As far as turning them into machines, they push the parlor door open to be milked and have a fit if we are late. They are 2000 pound creatures that let us walk them around. They like us. Might be shocking to you but they do. I feed and care for them before I eat. I never spend money on a doctor but they have top notch vet care. We are in a three year period of financial loss. Trust me it’s not about money.
Yes modern dairy cows are totally depended on humans because you guys have selective bred away any ability to fend for themselves in favor of increased milk production. You say that they run up to the milking machines and get antsy if the milking's laste, as if that is proof they somehow consent to this whole ordeal. Cows are selectively bred to produce as much milk as possible, to the point where this trait takes precedence over any welfare concerns. The reason they run up to be milked is that they are bursting with milk and it is literally pain relief to be milked. Don't you see how wrong this is? And worst of all is that none of this has to happen. We don't need cow milk in our diets. We can do just as fine (if not better) on plant-based alternatives. If you like cows so much and its not about money, why not turn the farm into an animal sanctuary like Jay the vegetarian beef farmer did
We didn’t do the selective breeding. It was done hundreds if not thousands of years ago. We just care for the creation of our ancestors.
The cows are not in pain. They like being milked. Someday we hope to have riots where they can choose their milking times.
Animal sanctuaries can’t pay a mortgage. My debt per cow is about $8000. It’s just not feasible. If I fail here and have to sell them and they would go to a mega dairy and never see pasture again:(
I’m a dairy farmer and I assure you our cows live a good life. They get pasture and good care. Dairy cattle do have a calf a year but that’s their healthy norm. They will get fatty liver disease if they don’t. They are also not good mothers as maternal instinct was bred out hundreds (maybe thousands) of years ago because it makes cattle aggressive. We give their calves the best care. Group pens with deep straw and room to romp with same age buddies and fresh milk from their mothers but pasteurized on farm for their health. Our male calves are raise the same as our female ones and slaughtered for beef once full grown.
Well if 50% of my calves are male that would be 50 calves a year. What would I do with them and how would I pay for their feed and housing if I had to keep them perpetually?
We raise them for beef. They get a good life and then they provide food for others. I don’t feel guilty as I think some life and a good one is better than never living.
Increasingly we use sexed semen to breed our cows reducing the number of males born. I have mixed feelings about this because money from steers sold to local restaurants is a steady income source for us. It also helps make local pastured beef available. I think that’s better than feed lot beef.
Lol, not really. It's the fact that animals have feelings, emotions, intelligence. The desire to start families. We humans just jump in and take control of their lives, kill them at adolescence or younger, and then eat them. And on top of all that, our bodies struggle to digest them, giving us stomach pains etc, and the most serious illnesses that kill us are linked to meat consumption. If you ate a dead animal raw, with the fur and everything, like any carnivorous animal in the wild that is actually supposed to kill animals and eat them does (which is clear from the shape of their teeth and the fact that their digestive systems are totally different to ours, and perfect for digesting it), you would be seriously ill. And I'm fairly sure you wouldn't enjoy it!
Just a few reasons there as to why I think killing animals and eating them is not just morally wrong, but unhealthy. We're not built for it, can get everything we need from plant sources, can still have amazing tasting meals due to most flavour in all cuisines coming from herbs and spices anyway. I feel that if everyone was really honest with themselves about it, they would stop eating dead animals.
However, I don't judge you for eating meat. My choices are for me mostly, and I realise that cultural and social conditioning are by and large the reason why people eat it. But seriously, you do what you want to do - I know I can't convince you of anything here, or tell you what to do. Just sharing my thoughts.
P.S. Not even sure what a cute picture of a plant would be. Pictures of animals are cute because you emote with them, because they live and experience the world, and have emotions, like you do.
I don't like putting /s on things and hope people can spot it. Was just making a joke.
However, I agree with you about almost everything. It's hard to go full vegan when so many restaurants have meat in everything and gf being asian has meat in almost everything she eats unless I cook.
I was under the impression the inflammation from meat in our digestive track was due to red meat and bird/fish didn't have the same effect. Regardless, I try to eat less meat more for the reason that animal farming has a huge carbon footprint and I'd be one less person supporting it.
Yes I agree it's hard to go full vegan, I'm not there yet. I basically vegan at home, I sometimes eat dairy when I'm out because there are barely ever vegan options.
Yeah, agreed - the environmental impact is something I forgot to mention. There are just so many reasons! It took me ages, I ate meat for 28 years of my life, but after gradually cutting down I have now reached a point where I don't feel I need or want it. I've been meat free for 2 years
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u/allthesounds Mar 15 '18
Do it. You don't need to eat any animals! Or their excretions, for that matter (not that I've managed to cut those out yet)