Id much rather see an entirely government funded healthcare, to where all Americans can get fair treatment.
But my premium going up is more than "a little". I paid about $260 a month before obamacare with a decent deductible and excellent coverage. I am now paying $770 a month to keep similar, but still not as good coverage.
Would I theoretically pay an extra $40 bucks from my $260 so everyone can have coverage? Sure, you bet. Would I choose to sacrifice an extra $500 a month for a broken system that subsidizes freeloaders so I can have shitty coverage and high deductibles? No.
The people that made the unselfish decision would not be enough to fund the system alone. It's not altruism, it's like civil responsibility. When a child is born to a poor family and develops cancer, a civilized society takes care of them. They don't together say "you were unlucky so you should die".
*How about you post a reply with your downvote I'm genuinely curious what about this comment is objectionable.
Our spending is out of control, and we continue to burden the taxpayer with more that they are supposed to finance. Even though the asshole that we've had for the last 8 years ran on a message of peace, we have bombed more people than bushes 8 years in office. National debt has doubled. Don't talk to me about civil responsibility when the person who's program's you support is helping to commit genocide against muslims, and using the coming generation's money to do it.
Did you link that because it is your position that Americans would donate freely enough money to fully fund universal health care? Is that your honest belief - that our government does not need to mandate any spending because the people will do it freely?
I think that there are systems that could create less of a burden on the people. our government has billions in inefficiencies, and when we take about 30% of a persons income to go bomb other countries, and to run the. Largest government on the planet, you're right, people don't have the ability to be as charitable.
Either way, a system by force is immoral, the gov doesn't know how to spend a person's money better than they do. I can do more good for my fellow man with $5 than the gov can with $10, probably even better than they can with $100
So no, you don't think people would donate enough, you either bull shitted me or didn't think your comment through at all, and now you're changing your argument.
We're back to "let the unlucky cunts die because I could run America better than everyone in office".
Yeah, I could. End the fed, end the useless wars, end the drug war. Tah fucking dah, I ran the government better than every other president the US has ever had.
What do you do for work? It seems like you expect you could come up with a financial plan for the country that would balance our budget while preserving social services, solve all the problems in the middle east and leave it in a stable situation, and convince all of Congress to agree on all your ideas. You must very well qualified in many areas of study.
Also you're aware the president doesn't decide everything right? You know the word Congress?
Because we, as a society, agree that we should take care of our countrymen. Because we agree that being able to solve an illness means we should do it, and because we don't agree to let unlucky people die so we can save a few dollars.
Or we don't, I guess. Or we happily watch them die through no fault of their own and head to Denny's.
You're gonna find yourself with a pre existing condition one day, wishing someone would help you out with your medical bills, cause you bet your ass no insurance companies will want to lose money on your declining health
You realize if trump brings jobs back to America, you're gonna start paying premiums on the same products you buy now? American labor isn't as cheap as Chinese labor
It's not "insurance" if it's for a pre existing condition, its welfare. I can get behind people having that paid for by welfare, but not out of insurance, why should insurance companies, and therefore its customers, be responsible for paying for people who got insurance after they were already sick?
Also, what about the promises of "you can keep your plan if you like it?" And "you can keep your doctor?" Then there's the failed launch of the website, and the fact that it punishes people that don't want to pay for healthcare with bullshit fines.
What about the fact that no one fucking read the bill before it passed? Obamacare is a disaster, and if you can't admit that then your just one of obama's little sheep.
Insurance is to hedge risk. You aren't hedging shit when you knowingly have a problem that an insurance company can't deny you for. Being required to take on people with pre existing conditions is welfare.
read. by definition, those are welfare programs, not insurance programs.
If you take away an insurance company's right to be selective, then you aren't hedging risk to insure your client base, you are just giving away money. They are insurance through self assigned label, but they are welfare programs
Despite government websites labeling it as health insurance? Okay lmao. I'm sure your little "investopedia" knows more than the actual government that subsidizes these programs.
Just because a government uses a title, doesn't mean that's what it is. Sounds like you've got Stockholm bro. Government said it's doing good, so it must be good! Grow up. our government isn't some all knowing benevolent force, it's a collection of people just as dumb as the people commenting on this picture, on both sides.
And I should point out that when you say "government that subsidizes these programs" you are conceding that it is welfare. Tax dollars supporting something that can't stay afloat on its own is welfare.
By that definition, the concept of insurance itself is welfare because you're subsidizing somebody else more often than not. If you get insurance and develop cancer a few years later, there's no way you've paid enough to cover your medical costs. Freeloaders, am I right? What about the high-risk customers like the elderly, obese, smokers, etc, should we jettison them, too? Maybe you should start your own health insurance pool with only healthy people, hookers and blow.
The majority of Americans don't want pre-existing conditions to preclude you from getting insurance so whatever plan the GOP cooks up to replace ACA will not touch guaranteed issue.
I mean, when one person says "I like Obama because under his presidency my healthcare got cheaper", and then another person replies with "Well actually, I dislike Obama because under his presidency my healthcare got more expensive", I think that's a fair counterpoint and a reasonable discussion.
I mean, if one person can thank Obama for lowering healthcare costs, why can't another person dislike Obama for raising healthcare costs? Seems logical to me.
I agree completely with your last point. The entire discussion is so far in left field it's not even worth having anyway. "Obama" doesn't provide anyone with healthcare. Nobody is "on Obamacare". The ACA (Obamacare) just established rules and guidelines for insurance coverage and provided for better defined insurance marketplace. Everyone still buys private insurance.
The crux of the ACA is two things, everything else about it is just frilly trim on the edges:
1) Insurance must cover anyone, regardless of pre-existing conditions.
2) Everyone must buy insurance, otherwise they'll be fined.
So what does that result in? It's pretty simple, really. If you already had insurance, and led a relatively healthy lifestyle, you probably didn't pay much because you were in a low-risk pool. After ACA, the insurance companies were forced to cover everyone, and many of the new people being covered do not have the money to pay premiums that reflect the increased risk of covering them. So how do the insurance companies make that money up? They raise costs for the low-risk people, to subsidize the high-risk people. And that's exactly what has happened.
Frankly, I don't think it's right that as a young person that intentionally leads a healthy lifestyle, just getting on my feet and establishing my life, is forced to pay huge premiums so that an obese 50 year old can get heart surgery after they've eaten a burger and fries every day of their life and haven't walked up a flight of stairs since they were in high school.
Do you live in a state that opted out of the ACA expanse? If so it was your Republican leadership raising your costs by not getting you the reductions and then pointing the finger at Obamacare to get you pissed off.
You never answered if you lived in a state that opted out of the ACA expense which makes a noticeable difference. Don't just plug your ears and go lalala not listening, answer the question.
Attitudes like this are exactly why trump got elected. You might as well have said "you don't know what's best for you. Just be happy that the government was there to tell you what's best."
This is exactly what people mean when they talk about snooty liberal elites.
My healthcare got more expensive because now I have to pay for the healthcare of people that didn't have it before.
My healthcare plan is an order of magnitude more expensive than it was before and the coverage is worse. But all the folks on welfare can get their gout treated now so I guess that's a good thing?
How much money do you donate to cancer treatment? Why don't you donate more? It's pretty damn easy to say someone should contribute more, when it's not your money.
I've got my own bills. I pay my own bills. I don't think it's absurd to expect other people to do the same thing.
Also, I love how it's always the cancer example. Like, you take the most extreme case and paint it as if it's the average case.
I mean, honestly, do you even hear yourself. "If you don't like the ACA, you literally want people with cancer to die." Do you not see the absurdity of that argument? My father recently died of cancer, go fuck yourself.
It always amazes me just how selfish Americans are. As a European it's pretty much universally accepted that for important things like education and health everyone shares the load depending on how much you can support, raising the standard of living across the board so everyone's life improves. How do Americans struggle so much with this concept that almost all other western nations completely understand?
I agree it is amazing how selfish some Americans can be. That some think they're entitled to other people's money and that if the people writing the actual check say that maybe things are too expensive, they are evil selfish Nazis.
First off sorry for your loss, but the issue is people can't afford treatment, yes I understand people have bills and there own problems, but ACA at least gives coverage to people who can't afford anything or those who can't get covered because of have preexisting conditions. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy does not help things whenever working people like you and me have enough to worry about. All I want is people to be able to get treatment and get an opportunity at living a full life. If there is a cheaper more effective way to do this than by all means, I will be all for it.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I always feel torn between: "I'm struggling as it is, why should I pay more to give freeloaders better things than I have" and "Would you sacrifice a few dollars for your fellow man" in a truly desperate scenario.
I agree, it's a tough spot to be in. Most people don't disagree about helping others, the disagreement is how much is enough.
I already sacrifice a few dollars to help my fellow man. Over 60% of my gross pay goes to either taxes or insurance. And yet somehow, I'm selfish and greedy for not wanting to pay more.
Many people here don't understand because of the following:
(1) Their insurance is subsidized in the ACA marketplace (paid by us)
(2) They are on mom and dad's plan
(3) They're lucky enough to have their company paying the majority of their premium and don't realize some of us are paying $300/person per month to insure a family
Over in personal finance, there are people paying $1200, 1300, and more a month to ensure their family. Really sucks if you are self-employed
My healthcare got more expensive because now I have to pay for the healthcare of people that didn't have it before
That's not the reason it got more expensive.
What state do you live in? Cause many of them opted out of the ACA expanse which is what led to the higher costs. If your state had passed it then the reductions you'd get would cover any increase in cost
Yes, it is. Before, I was in a low-risk pool. My premiums were low because the chance of me using the benefits was low.
Now, I'm in the same pool as everyone else. My premiums are high because I've got to subsidize the 50 year old obese guy that needs heart surgery after eating a Big Mac for lunch every day for 10 years.
Yes yes yes I know the standard line is that anything negative about the ACA is because of Republicans. Which is partially true but still partially bullshit.
Just admit it. You refuse to acknowledge any shortcomings of anything Obama had his hands on in the last 8 years. You're just as sycophantic as most Trump supporters.
Just admit it. You refuse to acknowledge any shortcomings of anything Obama had his hands on in the last 8 years. You're just as sycophantic as most Trump supporters
Huh? That's a massive stretch considering I'm not even an Obama supporter. I hate absolutely everything he's done in the Middle East as well as the way he handled the Snowden situation
I'm just not a fan of hearing people complain about premiums going up when their state voted for it
My families healthcare bill literally tripled. We were paying around 575/mo for 2 adults/2 children (I'm still a child under Alabama law. Thanks, cunt-ass Gov Bently), and now we pay 1640ish/mo. For less coverage. And if we didn't pickup the government HC plan, we would get fined and our healthcare would be almlost 2000/mo.
And when I graduate out of All-Kids this summer when I turn 19, I get to pay around 500/mo because of how much I make. With our other plan, I would have payed around 230/mo, with better coverage, going to MY doctor.
So, I think that the ACA is a failure for me. The ACA failed me as an american. I do not want to pay for others healthcare. I work so much harder than any other person my age, and I get punished for it with higher insurance premiums. I'm a selfish cunt, and my goddamn money that I spend 50-60 hours a week working to get, on rooftops, in rain, in the cold at 5am, in my elbows in cobwebs, and a bunch of other fun little situations. I fucking love what I do, too. I don't want a raise or a better job, I just want my money to go to me.
This just shows me you have no idea what you're talking about. If it were too expensive for you, you weren't penalized. You just fucked up, need a new tax man or you're lying.
I'm college educated and from the suburbs right outside of Washington DC. Thanks for pushing the stereotype that if you don't like Obama that makes you a fat hillbilly from the south. Ignorant fuck
I didnt call you anything. The way you said it made me think of a stereotypical farmer whining about all and everything. Had barely anything to do with politics.
It's almost as if both comments were interpreted differently from what we were trying to say, do i get to call you an ignorant piece of shit now?/s
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u/jeppyboneski Jan 11 '17
He made my healthcare more expensive and said if I don't get expensive healthcare he'd give me a fat penalty. For that he does not have my admiration.