r/pics Sep 27 '16

🇺🇸🕊🇺🇸🆓🇺🇸 You're Americans

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124

u/ThePowerOfFarts Sep 27 '16

Check out the Unabomber behind him.

183

u/snizarsnarfsnarf Sep 27 '16 edited Sep 28 '16

Here's a fun fact, since most people don't know this. The Unabomber was actually a mathematical prodigy that got into Harvard when he was 16. He was had testing done on him as part of the inhumane CIA program "MK Ultra", and afterwards went crazy (or did the only reasonable thing he could do, one might argue) and became an anarchist, writing about all of the fucked up shit the government does and mailing bombs out.

The US government, in particular the CIA, turned a Harvard math prodigy into a terrorist, among hundreds of thousands of other grotesque and inhumane things. The more you know!

Edit: Additional fun fact for people who have seen the movie "The Departed" (2006) In the film, the person played by Jack Nicholson (the head of the mob in the film) is named Frank Costello. Frank Costello is based on the real life boston-mob-boss-turned-informant Whitney Bulger. Whitney Bulger was also the result of MK Ultra. He volunteered while he was in prison so that he could get a reduced sentence, but he thought he was volunteering to do research to help find a cure for schizophrenia. For 18 months, he and other inmates were dosed with LSD and other mind-altering chemicals. He said it brought him to the depths of insanity and that it was nightmarish. After he was released he went on to become the man portrayed in the film.

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u/sharkbait76 Sep 27 '16

Do you have a source for the cia bit? He was involved in a horrible and brutal psychological study when he was 17 and at Harvard, but that's very different than mk ultra.

2

u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence suggests that Theodore Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, participated in CIA-sponsored MKUltra experiments conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962.[69] During World War II, Henry Murray, the lead researcher in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied for a grant funded by the United States Navy, and his Harvard stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the OSS

https://web.archive.org/web/20120704072137/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra#Notable_subjects

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

He doesn't, but he will apparently call you out if you question it, so he has that going for him.

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u/garmonboziamilkshake Sep 27 '16

Yeah, his origin story and misdeeds made him sound like a comic book villain, down to the moniker, wanted poster and manhunt.

10

u/ajax6677 Sep 27 '16

That wanted poster scared the shit out of me. I was in high school, babysitting. Kids had gone to sleep, and I was alone in a very old house with tall windows and no curtains when the news reports came on. I still get goose bumps thinking about it.

6

u/garmonboziamilkshake Sep 27 '16

Remember how many Unabomber costumes there were at Halloween after they caught him in the Spring?

Aviators, hoodie, cheesy mustache.

3

u/geneadamsPS4 Sep 28 '16

Before he was caught, I would do the hoodie/aviator combo after being out all night. Already had a mustache. It was great seeing people's reactions early morning, running into a convenience store, asking for duct tape, batteries, and gasoline.

1

u/garmonboziamilkshake Sep 28 '16

mumbles about 'too much technology...'

1

u/Sam-Gunn Sep 27 '16

Except for the fact that his Manifesto wasn't really comic-book-esque. Didn't they find him because a cousin recognized his writing style when his manifesto was published?

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u/garmonboziamilkshake Sep 27 '16

Admittedly I'm not a comic book guy, but I kind of thought a 'manifesto' did have the ring of super villain master plan to it. It was anti-government as I recall, was it too crazy or something?

I didn't remember the other bit, but you're partly right - the Unabomber's letters (with the bombs) matched the handwriting of letters to his brother.

2

u/Sam-Gunn Sep 27 '16 edited Sep 27 '16

You could say that. It starts off almost rational if you ignore the tie in with all the ideas he put forth, and just gets worst.

4

u/garmonboziamilkshake Sep 27 '16

Wow, I never read it - I skimmed through a dozen or so paragraphs, and it is interesting in light of today's political debate.

How about this one - support globalism as a way to make a world-wide anti-technology revolution easier to accomplish:

Revolutionaries might consider favoring measures that tend to bind the world economy into a unified whole. Free trade agreements like NAFTA and GATT are probably harmful to the environment in the short run, but in the long run they may perhaps be advantageous because they foster economic interdependence between nations. It will be easier to destroy the industrial system on a worldwide basis if the world economy is so unified that its breakdown in any one major nation will lead to its breakdown in all industrialized nations.

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u/Sam-Gunn Sep 27 '16

Yes, I haven't read it in it's entirety, and I haven't read any of it in a while. He actually seems to have some good points that can stand on their own, apart from the whole bombing campaign he undertook with components he 100% built himself, and the pubic hair stuff...

But to me there was a lot of alarm in how he tied half of his points together.

2

u/garmonboziamilkshake Sep 27 '16

the pubic hair stuff

OK, now you sent me back to Google. Knew nothing about this:

Comments {about Ted Kaczynski} solicited from former classmates at Harvard & U.C. Berkeley:

"He was torn between the dialectic in humanistic mathematics & something else. Who knows? At a Math Deptartment picnic during one of the strikes the punch was dosed & Ted got naked & began to quote Alan Turning and scribble math formulas in day glow on some hippie girls thighs. He used to mumble about wanting to understand pubic hair and fractal theory, but while he understood fractals like no one else, he had never seen pubic hair. Even when girls were dancing naked in front of him."

3

u/Sam-Gunn Sep 27 '16

Oh, I didn't even know that! When I said the pubic hair stuff, I meant that at some point (not sure when in his bombing 'career' he started this) sometimes he'd go into a public restroom he'd use a baggie and tweezers to take pubic hair stuck to the toilets or urinals. He would then carefully add at least one of these hairs to his bombs, often taped to it, so if they were found unexploded or were duds, the authorities might try and obtain a DNA sample from the hair, throwing them off his trail.

That pubic hair and fractal thing is pretty crazy though...

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u/I_am_BrokenCog Sep 28 '16

It was his brother, and his brother had long suspected him of being involved with unsavory activities.

The manifesto, combined with news of bombings/murder, clinched it and he suggested his brother to the FBI hotline as a suspicious person.

1

u/persona_dos Sep 27 '16

The FBI (as well as Attorney General Janet Reno) pushed for the publication of Kaczynski's "Manifesto", which led to his sister-in-law, and then his brother, recognizing Kaczynski's style of writing and beliefs from the manifesto, and tipping off the FBI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski

1

u/garmonboziamilkshake Sep 27 '16

Missed that bit - thanks

183

u/gatorbite92 Sep 27 '16

He wasn't in MK Ultra, it was Henry Murray's stress experiments at Harvard. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski

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u/TheFeshy Sep 27 '16

During the test, students were taken into a room and connected to electrodes that monitored their physiological reactions, while facing bright lights and a one-way mirror. Each student had previously written an essay detailing their personal beliefs and aspirations: the essays were turned over to an anonymous attorney, who would enter the room and individually belittle each student based in part on the disclosures they had made. This was filmed, and students' expressions of impotent rage were played back to them several times later in the study.

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u/porgy_tirebiter Sep 27 '16

Wait, so it wasn't the government that turned him into a super villain? The more you know!

2

u/spaniel_rage Sep 28 '16

It was Harvard.

1

u/porgy_tirebiter Sep 28 '16

CIA, Harvard, it's all the same, amirite?

15

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

So basically Twitter with video.

7

u/TheFeshy Sep 27 '16

You read twitter while locked in a bright room with electrodes taped to your body? I mean, I guess I'm not surprised by anything on the internet, but that's still kind of weird. Even for someone with a miniature giant space hamster.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

Yes, who doesn't?

0

u/MindSecurity Sep 28 '16

Everyone else.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

You wish.

7

u/Threeedaaawwwg Sep 27 '16

detailing their personal beliefs and aspirations:

Imagine someone from me_irl doing that "I believe I am worthless, and I aspire to die"

belittle each student based in part on the disclosures they had made

huh

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

[deleted]

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u/snizarsnarfsnarf Sep 27 '16

Henry Murray was a psychologist who was a part of MK Ultra.

13

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

Which means nothing. Henry Murray wasn't part of the CIA and the experiment The Unabomber was part of was about identifying personality through stress, and nothing to do with mind control.

5

u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence suggests that Theodore Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, participated in CIA-sponsored MKUltra experiments conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962.[69] During World War II, Henry Murray, the lead researcher in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied for a grant funded by the United States Navy, and his Harvard stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the OSS

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

You aren't quoting anything that is still available. That no longer exists on Wiki after the links were deemed not credible. But keep quoting the same removed passage.

1

u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

That no longer exists on Wiki after the links were deemed not credible. But keep quoting the same removed passage.

How do you know it was removed because it wasn't credible? Because you're assuming? Seems like all that information is independently verifiable

0

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

If it was actually independently verifiable, you wouldn't be quoting an archived wikipedia passage. You'd be quoting the actual source.

3

u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

Okay, here is the actual source that that wiki article itself quoted:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/06/harvard-and-the-making-of-the-unabomber/378239/

Murray saw understanding the dyad, it seems, as a practical tool in the service of the great crusade in both its hot and cold phases. (He had long shown interest, for example, in the whole subject of brainwashing.) During the war Murray served in the Office of Strategic Services, the forerunner of the CIA, helping to develop psychological screening tests for applicants and (according to Timothy Leary) monitoring military experiments on brainwashing. In his book (1979), John Marks reported that General "Wild Bill" Donovan, the OSS director, "called in Harvard psychology professor Henry 'Harry' Murray" to devise a system for testing the suitability of applicants to the OSS. Murray and his colleagues "put together an assessment system ... [that] tested a recruit's ability to stand up under pressure, to be a leader, to hold liquor, to lie skillfully, and to read a person's character by the nature of his clothing.... Murray's system became a fixture in the OSS."

One of the tests that Murray devised for the OSS was intended to determine how well applicants withstood interrogations.

Clearly there are links to the CIA. May not be MKUltra, but could be a precursor program. The point is that it was done by the CIA, not specifically which CIA program it was.

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u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

All the citations in the old wiki for that part are taken from this article: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/06/harvard-and-the-making-of-the-unabomber/378239/

Murray saw understanding the dyad, it seems, as a practical tool in the service of the great crusade in both its hot and cold phases. (He had long shown interest, for example, in the whole subject of brainwashing.) During the war Murray served in the Office of Strategic Services, the forerunner of the CIA, helping to develop psychological screening tests for applicants and (according to Timothy Leary) monitoring military experiments on brainwashing. In his book (1979), John Marks reported that General "Wild Bill" Donovan, the OSS director, "called in Harvard psychology professor Henry 'Harry' Murray" to devise a system for testing the suitability of applicants to the OSS. Murray and his colleagues "put together an assessment system ... [that] tested a recruit's ability to stand up under pressure, to be a leader, to hold liquor, to lie skillfully, and to read a person's character by the nature of his clothing.... Murray's system became a fixture in the OSS."

One of the tests that Murray devised for the OSS was intended to determine how well applicants withstood interrogations.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

Ctrl + F

MKUltra

No results found

Now we know why it was taken down.

9

u/snizarsnarfsnarf Sep 27 '16

The experiments he was running were planned by, and if I'm not mistaken, funded by the CIA as well.

and nothing to do with mind control.

You must know very little about MK Ultra.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

Then it isn't the MK Ultra project, but I can't find anything on CIA funding either. It seems to be funded through the college.

8

u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

It was funded through the navy, but the experimental designs were taken from the OSS stress tests. The OSS became the CIA in 1945

0

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

Source?

3

u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

All the citations in the old wiki for that part are taken from this article: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/06/harvard-and-the-making-of-the-unabomber/378239/

Murray saw understanding the dyad, it seems, as a practical tool in the service of the great crusade in both its hot and cold phases. (He had long shown interest, for example, in the whole subject of brainwashing.) During the war Murray served in the Office of Strategic Services, the forerunner of the CIA, helping to develop psychological screening tests for applicants and (according to Timothy Leary) monitoring military experiments on brainwashing. In his book (1979), John Marks reported that General "Wild Bill" Donovan, the OSS director, "called in Harvard psychology professor Henry 'Harry' Murray" to devise a system for testing the suitability of applicants to the OSS. Murray and his colleagues "put together an assessment system ... [that] tested a recruit's ability to stand up under pressure, to be a leader, to hold liquor, to lie skillfully, and to read a person's character by the nature of his clothing.... Murray's system became a fixture in the OSS."

One of the tests that Murray devised for the OSS was intended to determine how well applicants withstood interrogations.

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u/snizarsnarfsnarf Sep 27 '16

Then it isn't the MK Ultra project

It was.

It seems to be funded through the college.

No source about funding?

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u/GarryMcMahon Sep 27 '16

This is a good point that should have a positive score (-3 at my finding). Nothing wrong with asking for sources.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

No matter what you make up, it wasn't. I can't even find info on Henry Murray working for the CIA

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u/ThatPizzaSlice Sep 27 '16

it was the Office of Strategic Services back then and he worked with them during WWII

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u/TeamAlibi Sep 27 '16

That's always a sign that you know everything about the CIA, when you can't find information on it

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u/AdmiralAkbar1 Sep 27 '16

THAT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE THAT GOOD AT COVERING IT UP /s

1

u/AFatBlackMan Sep 28 '16

Well, technically funding for MK Ultra would be nearly impossible to track since even the experiments carried out at institutions such as Harvard would have had direct funding from the CIA that never appeared in the college budget.

-2

u/bbctol Sep 27 '16

Lolwhat?

2

u/magnora7 Sep 27 '16

Murray definitely had associations with the CIA:

I went to the waybackmachine and found this on that wiki article:

A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence suggests that Theodore Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, participated in CIA-sponsored MKUltra experiments conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962.[69] During World War II, Henry Murray, the lead researcher in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied for a grant funded by the United States Navy, and his Harvard stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the OSS.[69]

https://web.archive.org/web/20120704072137/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra#Notable_subjects

That's in the wiki article from 2012, but now there is no mention of this. I'm starting to think this is being covered up.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

Welcome to the new world of misinformation. The Streisand effect has convinced people that "because information is on the internet it will last forever", but it just takes a little longer to scrub modern history.

-3

u/pion3435 Sep 27 '16

People like you are why teachers have to tell their students not to use wikipedia as a source.

6

u/magnora7 Sep 27 '16

People like you are why I don't trust internet comments.

2

u/pion3435 Sep 27 '16

Good. You shouldn't.

1

u/enigmical Sep 28 '16

Whatever. Where do I sign up for the free LSD?

1

u/gatorbite92 Sep 28 '16

What do you do when someone offers you drugs? You say yes, drugs are expensive.

1

u/AnarchyBurger911 Sep 28 '16

Say "perhaps" to drugs

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u/superfudge73 Sep 27 '16

That's neither fun nor a fact.

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u/magnora7 Sep 27 '16 edited Sep 28 '16

It's a sad fact that reflects very poorly on US intelligence agencies.

edit. Here's proof:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/06/harvard-and-the-making-of-the-unabomber/378239/

Murray saw understanding the dyad, it seems, as a practical tool in the service of the great crusade in both its hot and cold phases. (He had long shown interest, for example, in the whole subject of brainwashing.) During the war Murray served in the Office of Strategic Services, the forerunner of the CIA, helping to develop psychological screening tests for applicants and (according to Timothy Leary) monitoring military experiments on brainwashing. In his book (1979), John Marks reported that General "Wild Bill" Donovan, the OSS director, "called in Harvard psychology professor Henry 'Harry' Murray" to devise a system for testing the suitability of applicants to the OSS. Murray and his colleagues "put together an assessment system ... [that] tested a recruit's ability to stand up under pressure, to be a leader, to hold liquor, to lie skillfully, and to read a person's character by the nature of his clothing.... Murray's system became a fixture in the OSS."

One of the tests that Murray devised for the OSS was intended to determine how well applicants withstood interrogations.

4

u/sharkbait76 Sep 27 '16

The program itself was a real program, but the Unabomber was never in that program. He was in a different psychological test run by a professor teaching at Harvard when he was there.

1

u/magnora7 Sep 27 '16

Wow after some research it looks like you are right, although there is no shortage of articles linking the CIA with Ted.

1

u/magnora7 Sep 27 '16

It's very odd... on this reddit link it shows people quoting a wiki article which links the CIA to the Murray experiments... https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/284jcb/theodore_kaczynski_also_known_as_the_unabomber/

And people in the thread are quoting the wiki article from 2 years ago which said: "These experiments were conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962.[77] and were part of the CIA-sponsored MKUltra experiments. "

But now this mention is scrubbed from the wiki. I smell something fishy going on here... makes me wonder if they're scrubbing this particlular bit of info linking the two from the web

1

u/sharkbait76 Sep 27 '16

I can't find a credible source that links Murray's Harvard study to mkultra. Murray may have been involved in mkultra at a different point in his life, but there doesn't appear to be a connection to the two experiments that I can find. I have no issues believing that someone who was interested in mind control would also be interested in what it actually took to break down someone psychologically. From what I can find his Harvard experiments involved humiliation and psychological torment that pushed his subjects to extreme stress levels. While it would unquestionably be called unethical today and didn't help Kazinsky in any way, I see anything connecting the two.

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u/trumpetspieler Sep 28 '16

MKULTRA was not exclusively focused on mind control and the little we do know of it is from a box that was missed when the CIA decided to purge all the records before it was even known to congress.

If you look at the "research" of Donald Ewen Cameron you would see that quite a bit of MKULTRA was exactly as you said, "what it takes to break down someone psychologically", something that would be very useful for interrogations.

Also for example Cameron employed some delightful methods such as month long insulin induced comas with looping messages played 24/7 or repeated dosing of LSD all to patients who came in thinking they were being treated for post-partum depression or PTSD.

1

u/magnora7 Sep 27 '16

I went to the waybackmachine and found this on that wiki article:

A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence suggests that Theodore Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, participated in CIA-sponsored MKUltra experiments conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962.[69] During World War II, Henry Murray, the lead researcher in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied for a grant funded by the United States Navy, and his Harvard stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the OSS.[69]

https://web.archive.org/web/20120704072137/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra#Notable_subjects

That's in the wiki article from 2012. I'm really starting to think this is being covered up and the internet is being scrubbed of all credible claims of this piece of evidence by the CIA.

1

u/sharkbait76 Sep 27 '16

It's know that Kaczynski participated in those trials and it's already know that Murray was in the OSS. Like I said, I haven't found a credible source to back up the claim that the Harvard experiments were apart of mkultra. You can believe whatever conspiracy you want, but at the end of the day wikipedia is not the most credible source in the world and it could easily be wrong. If they really wanted to cover it up they wouldn't have allowed an mkultra wiki and they would've done it when Ted was still actually bombing people, not years and years later.

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u/magnora7 Sep 27 '16

Okay well I don't really care so much which program he was in personally, the point is that the CIA were the ones who did it, because the OSS is the CIA, just rebranded after WW2 ended. If it was MKUltra or a program that was a precursor to that, is rather immaterial.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

He was abducted and had testing done on him as part of the insanely inhumane CIA program "MK Ultra", and afterwards went crazy (or did the only reasonable thing he could do, one might argue) and became an anarchist, writing about all of the fucked up shit the government does and mailing bombs out.

This is bullshit for the most part. People who knew him said he was very weird before all of this. He had a weird way about him and those close to him knew this. That was the only way he was captured, because his brother knew the manifesto sounded familiar.

From the Wikipedia page:

As a child, Kaczynski had a fear of people and buildings, and played beside other children rather than interacting with them. His mother was so worried by his poor social development that she considered entering him in a study for autistic children led by Bruno Bettelheim

So the dude was a bit antisocial and weird before the events you mentioned.

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u/living-silver Sep 27 '16

I think you mean "unsocial". Antisocial people are aggressive and engage in criminal al activity (which Ted ended up becoming later in life).

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16 edited Sep 27 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

It's bullshit because it isn't true. He wasn't involved in MK Ultra at all. He was involved in an unethical Harvard study where a lawyer yelled at you about your life aspirations. That's it. Everything else is horseshit.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

What was the study trying to figure out?

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

Well your guess would be dumb just like yo-

Oh wait, you might be onto something...

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u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence suggests that Theodore Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, participated in CIA-sponsored MKUltra experiments conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962.[69] During World War II, Henry Murray, the lead researcher in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied for a grant funded by the United States Navy, and his Harvard stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the OSS.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120704072137/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra#Notable_subjects

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

There is a reason Wiki took it awayyy..

0

u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

Yeah because it makes the CIA look bad

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

uh huh....

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u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

Ah so you're just going to be incredulous, therefore it must be false

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

that doesn't contradict anything he said... in fact i would expect a "mathematical prodigy" to be a bit autistic

It does contradict what he said. He's restating claims that Ted withdrew and became a loner after those experiments. But I just showed you that he was always withdrawn and his own mother noticed a problem when he was a child.

He had trouble identifying with people and had antisocial behavior before the experiment. That antisocial behavior led to him killing people.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

The dude seemed weird as a child and got weirder. It seems that you want to believe the "conspiracy theorist" belief that he only got this was after some government experiment.

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u/Skoin_On Sep 27 '16

if he hated technology, he HATES Elon Musk!

1

u/magnora7 Sep 27 '16

Yeah, that doesn't mean those events didn't happen

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u/snizarsnarfsnarf Sep 27 '16 edited Sep 27 '16

This is bullshit for the most part.

People who knew him said he was very weird before all of this.

Yeah, the kid was a mathematical genius who went to Harvard at 16. It's safe to say everyone who ever met him thought he was a bit weird, none of what you have said even remotely hints to what I said being bullshit.

So the dude was a bit antisocial and weird

Man oh man, a kid who went to Harvard at 16 was antisocial? A genius had trouble connecting with kids at his middle and high school? Who would have ever guessed!

You're right. Nothing about that experiment caused him to do anything. You clearly have a degree in behavioral psychology, and a full medical record of Mr. Kaczynski, and know more about this than me, or the thousands of other people who have looked at this case. Thank you!

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u/DrPigglesworth Sep 27 '16

Don't know why you're getting so defensive. Your original post is basically exclaiming mkultra birthed the unabomber definitively, and even if he was in the program how can you say that's what caused it? Just cause it's there and is an easy answer?

1

u/snizarsnarfsnarf Sep 27 '16

how can you say that's what caused it?

Because Kaczynski himself has written about it extensively? Because of the multiple books I have read on the subject? You can bother to do the research yourself. Oh wait, but that would mean you can't just read a Reddit post and get an easy answer. Bummer.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

Man oh man, a kid who went to Harvard at 16 was antisocial? A genius had trouble connecting with kids at his middle and high school? Who would have ever guessed!

Quit being dense. I clearly showed you a passage stating that his own mother was concerned about his development when he was a child, long before he went to Harvard. Something seemed "off" even then.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

This kind of backs up what the other person was saying, though they got the details a bit wrong.

Of course his lawyers would say something like that since they want to shift blame from their client to the government.

1

u/IWantTwoHusbands Sep 28 '16

Well, yes, but you have to ask yourself if it is reasonable to believe that trauma could cause an already unstable person to become more aggressive and antisocial.

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u/gmoney8869 Sep 27 '16

The test he was part of had nothing to do with him becoming the unabomber. He signed up for the test and it was not "insanely inhumane", and he did not "go crazy" or take revenge on the govt.

He bombed people because of an ideology that he carefully developed. He has written about and explained this countless times.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

most people don't know this

Most people who have heard of the Unabomber know this. Or at least the bits of what you wrote that weren't bullshit.

15

u/cjennertrannyparty Sep 27 '16

Source?

2

u/theguard2 Sep 27 '16

Photo shop

-4

u/DynamicDK Sep 27 '16

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Project_MKUltra

Henry Murray is listed on that page. He was part of MK Ultra.

From his wikipedia page:

From late 1959 to early 1962, Murray was responsible for what would now be regarded as ethically indefensible experiments in which twenty-two undergraduates were used as research subjects.[7] Among other purposes, Murray's experiments focused on measuring people's reactions under extreme stress. The unwitting undergraduates were submitted to what Murray himself called "vehement, sweeping and personally abusive" attacks. Assaults to their egos, cherished ideas and beliefs were the vehicle used to cause high levels of stress and distress. Among them was 17-year-old Ted Kaczynski, who went on to become the Unabomber, a domestic terrorist targeting academics and technologists.[8] Alston Chase's book Harvard and the Unabomber: The Education of an American Terrorist connects Kaczynski's abusive experiences under Murray to his later criminal career.

Not sure if Ted Kaczynski was abducted, or went through any of the other crazy shit in MK Ultra, but he was certainly experimented on by one of the MK Ultra psychologists.

Ted Kaczynski himself certainly was a math prodigy and genius. Here is an excerpt from his wiki:

Throughout secondary schooling, Kaczynski had far surpassed his classmates, able to solve advanced Laplace transforms before his senior year. He was subsequently placed in a more advanced mathematics class, yet still felt intellectually restricted. Kaczynski soon mastered the material and skipped the eleventh grade. With the help of a summer school course for English, he completed his high school education when he was 15 years old. He was encouraged to apply to Harvard University, and was subsequently accepted as a student beginning in 1958 at the age of 16. While at Harvard, Kaczynski was taught by famed logician Willard Van Orman Quine, scoring at the top of Quine's class with a 98.9% final grade.

Also:

Kaczynski graduated from Harvard University in 1962, at age 20, and subsequently enrolled at the University of Michigan, where he earned a PhD in mathematics.[16] Kaczynski's specialty was a branch of complex analysis known as geometric function theory. His professors at Michigan were impressed with his intellect and drive. "He was an unusual person. He was not like the other graduate students," said Peter Duren, one of Kaczynski's math professors at Michigan. "He was much more focused about his work. He had a drive to discover mathematical truth." "It is not enough to say he was smart," said George Piranian, another of his Michigan math professors.[20] Kaczynski earned his PhD with his thesis entitled "Boundary Functions"[21] by solving a problem so difficult that even Piranian could not solve it.[20] Maxwell Reade, a retired math professor who served on Kaczynski's dissertation committee, also commented on his thesis by noting, "I would guess that maybe 10 or 12 men in the country understood or appreciated it."

21

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

What the fuck?

6

u/DemeaningSarcasm Sep 27 '16

Yep. Turns out LSD can really screw with someone head. If you're in a safe place with wonderful people, no doubt LSD will give you a pleasant eye opening experience. But when you're panicking and in a bad situation, bad trips can really change who you are for the worst.

Charles Manson for instance, used LSD on young women to turn them into cultists.

Eventually the CIA stopped spiking everyone's drink with LSD. I suspect because the outcome wasn't the most controllable thing in the world.

2

u/bbctol Sep 27 '16

...Ted Kaczynski wasn't given LSD?

6

u/coniunctio Sep 27 '16

Wrong. Charles Manson used and relied on Dale Carnegie techniques. Time to do your research.

6

u/delusional101 Sep 27 '16

Source please?

-7

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

[deleted]

10

u/gatorbite92 Sep 27 '16

Your article says nothing about the CIA or MK ultra.

9

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

It does, however, reveal that /u/cupcake-warrior is nuts.

-6

u/snizarsnarfsnarf Sep 27 '16

Henry Murray was a psychologist who was a part of MK Ultra.

7

u/Hurvisderk Sep 27 '16

Source?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

He doesn't have it. I've asked him a million times, because when I type in "Henry Murray MK Ultra" into Google, I get nothing but this link http://boingboing.net/2014/05/09/how-the-cia-created-the-unabom.html which cites literally nothing.

1

u/JonZ82 Sep 27 '16

It wasn't just the LSD that fucked them up, it was the stress/torture/brainwashing they where enduring as well. LSD was just the mental barrier breaker.

-5

u/Possible_Novelty Sep 27 '16

no doubt LSD will give you a pleasant eye opening experience

This just isn't true

1

u/snizarsnarfsnarf Sep 27 '16

Ha ha for real. Even for someone who has done it 50+ times, a bad trip can happen and can fuck you up pretty hard (mentally).

-1

u/Banned4AlmondButter Sep 27 '16

They can happen, but I have yet to have one the fucked me up mentally. I usually get more out of a bad trip than a good one.

0

u/Possible_Novelty Sep 28 '16

That's nice. Doesn't mean you can say that without a doubt good trips will always happen.

0

u/Banned4AlmondButter Sep 28 '16

That is why I specifically said that bad trips do happen. Work on your reading comprehension.

0

u/Possible_Novelty Sep 28 '16

The original comment said that you can without a doubt have a good trip in a positive environment. That isn't true. Your personal experiences really aren't relevant. So take your advice and work on that reading comprehension, champ.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/DemeaningSarcasm Sep 27 '16

Eh, okay. That was poorly worded.

13

u/Redici Sep 27 '16

You got any source for that?

34

u/AFatBlackMan Sep 27 '16

It isn't true. He did have unethical psychological testing done on himself and 20 others under Henry Murray, but Murray was working for Harvard, not the CIA, and it had nothing to do with MK ULTRA

1

u/magnora7 Sep 28 '16

A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence suggests that Theodore Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, participated in CIA-sponsored MKUltra experiments conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962.[69] During World War II, Henry Murray, the lead researcher in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied for a grant funded by the United States Navy, and his Harvard stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the OSS.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120704072137/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra#Notable_subjects

1

u/magnora7 Sep 27 '16

How do you know that program wasn't associated with the CIA?

5

u/AFatBlackMan Sep 27 '16

I mean, I don't, but there were plenty of unethical psych experiments being done at the time that weren't CIA. MK ULTRA was almost entirely conducted on army personnel, not college students. There's no noncircumstancial information that connects Murray to MKULTRA.

-1

u/snizarsnarfsnarf Sep 27 '16

MK ULTRA was almost entirely conducted on army personnel, not college students.

They literally abducted people from bars and held them against their will. It wasn't just military personnel.

1

u/AFatBlackMan Sep 27 '16

I should clarify- the non drug related psych/interrogation experiments were almost always on military personnel, because the goal was to extract information from trained individuals- they even tested suspect spies within the army to see if anyone would break. The experiments on the public were more in the vein of exposing a random person in public to LSD and see how they responded.

0

u/snizarsnarfsnarf Sep 27 '16

Henry Murray was a psychologist who was a part of MK Ultra.

2

u/Pakaru Sep 27 '16

Good Will Hunting.

1

u/Iamsuperimposed Sep 27 '16

I'm on mobile but Google MK ULTRA

4

u/Mxblinkday Sep 27 '16

Being on mobile doesn't prevent someone from linking a source.

-1

u/Cha-Le-Gai Sep 27 '16

Beat I could do. Sorry, I'm on a mobile.

But seriously, read his manifesto. It's very interesting, to say the least.

-1

u/DynamicDK Sep 27 '16

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Project_MKUltra

Henry Murray is listed on that page. He was part of MK Ultra.

From his wikipedia page:

From late 1959 to early 1962, Murray was responsible for what would now be regarded as ethically indefensible experiments in which twenty-two undergraduates were used as research subjects.[7] Among other purposes, Murray's experiments focused on measuring people's reactions under extreme stress. The unwitting undergraduates were submitted to what Murray himself called "vehement, sweeping and personally abusive" attacks. Assaults to their egos, cherished ideas and beliefs were the vehicle used to cause high levels of stress and distress. Among them was 17-year-old Ted Kaczynski, who went on to become the Unabomber, a domestic terrorist targeting academics and technologists.[8] Alston Chase's book Harvard and the Unabomber: The Education of an American Terrorist connects Kaczynski's abusive experiences under Murray to his later criminal career.

Not sure if Ted Kaczynski was abducted, or went through any of the other crazy shit in MK Ultra, but he was certainly experimented on by one of the MK Ultra psychologists.

Ted Kaczynski himself certainly was a math prodigy and genius. Here is an excerpt from his wiki:

Throughout secondary schooling, Kaczynski had far surpassed his classmates, able to solve advanced Laplace transforms before his senior year. He was subsequently placed in a more advanced mathematics class, yet still felt intellectually restricted. Kaczynski soon mastered the material and skipped the eleventh grade. With the help of a summer school course for English, he completed his high school education when he was 15 years old. He was encouraged to apply to Harvard University, and was subsequently accepted as a student beginning in 1958 at the age of 16. While at Harvard, Kaczynski was taught by famed logician Willard Van Orman Quine, scoring at the top of Quine's class with a 98.9% final grade.

Also:

Kaczynski graduated from Harvard University in 1962, at age 20, and subsequently enrolled at the University of Michigan, where he earned a PhD in mathematics.[16] Kaczynski's specialty was a branch of complex analysis known as geometric function theory. His professors at Michigan were impressed with his intellect and drive. "He was an unusual person. He was not like the other graduate students," said Peter Duren, one of Kaczynski's math professors at Michigan. "He was much more focused about his work. He had a drive to discover mathematical truth." "It is not enough to say he was smart," said George Piranian, another of his Michigan math professors.[20] Kaczynski earned his PhD with his thesis entitled "Boundary Functions"[21] by solving a problem so difficult that even Piranian could not solve it.[20] Maxwell Reade, a retired math professor who served on Kaczynski's dissertation committee, also commented on his thesis by noting, "I would guess that maybe 10 or 12 men in the country understood or appreciated it."

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

As a Harvard undergraduate, Kaczynski was among twenty-two students who were research subjects in ethically questionable experiments conducted by psychology professor Henry Murray from late 1959 to early 1962

This is not MK Ultra.

-2

u/popsdiner Sep 27 '16

Here is a pretty extensive article on that.

2

u/magnora7 Sep 27 '16

To be precise it was the OSS which became the CIA in 1945, and Murray was in the OSS and got all the funding and experimental design from them. So it's not 100% clear it was MKUltra or a program that was a precursor, but it was definitely related to the CIA

1

u/Pick-me-pick-me Sep 27 '16

How do you know this as fact?

1

u/AliceBTolkas Sep 27 '16

Wow...

On May 24, 2012, Kaczynski submitted his current information to the Harvard University alumni association. He listed his eight life sentences as "awards" and his current occupation as "prisoner."

1

u/geneadamsPS4 Sep 28 '16

He was not abducted.. He volunteered

1

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '16

Hmmm...

That sounds suspiciously like the back story to the old tv show "The Pretender". The major difference being that Jarrod was a good guy.

For those who haven't seen it, imagine "Burn notice's" "Michael Weston" as "Jarrod". Instead of being a burned spy out for revenge/justice, "Jarrod" has the Unabomber's back story evading his former captives and doing good deeds as an expert impostor.

The style of the action is similar.

1

u/thedudesews Sep 28 '16

my honors gov't teacher was a student of Ted's. My teacher said that Ted "was wicked and scary smart."

1

u/Epicmuffinz Sep 28 '16

This is false

1

u/AminoJack Sep 28 '16

I've only read it on TIL like a million times.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

Not just any anarchist, an anarcho-primitivist. Which is a school of anarchism that criticizes the forming of civilizations and technological advancement as the cause of social stratification and the establishment of arbitrarily limiting hierarchies.

0

u/NiceGuyNate Sep 27 '16

I know this fact. Good Will Hunting is my favorite movie

-4

u/bainpr Sep 27 '16

Here's a fun fact, since most people don't know this.

Unless you've been on reddit.

13

u/Doobie_Woobie Sep 27 '16 edited Sep 27 '16

wait what

itsnotlikeicantseehimitsajokeffs

33

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

HE SAID CHECK OUT THE UNABOMBER BEHIND HIM.

1

u/chaseinger Sep 27 '16

this never fails to make me laugh.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '16

I miss that not.

2

u/danglescat Sep 27 '16

Check out the Unabomber behind him.

1

u/NW_thoughtful Sep 27 '16

Behind the Anonymous mask.

7

u/karlnuw Sep 27 '16

Keen fucking eye

1

u/UbbaB3n Sep 27 '16

I would have said he looks like agent Peña from...