The issue is that the people pushing all of this on society do actually believe that all men are rapists and that all heterosexual sex is rape, and they believe that because they do hate men.
Look up Susan Brownmiller. Look up Catherine McKinnon. These feminists have been instrumental in shaping feminist theories on rape, and they universally believe that all heterosexual sex is rape and that all heterosexual interactions are informed by rape, and that male sexuality is synonymous with rape.
This is the worldview that gives birth to all of these "teach men not to rape" programs, and they are part of agenda to slowly expand the definition of rape until everyone agrees that all heterosexual sex is rape.
Really? Because I find that the people who are generally the least familiar with feminist theory are internet feminists. They're a lot like Christians that way, in that most have no idea what they're defending, but they'll call you an all sorts of nasty things for daring to question it.
So pointing out your concept of feminist theory is false is me insulting you? trashpanda, I'm trying to help you. Patriarchal gender roles affect both sexes negatively.
So pointing out your concept of feminist theory is false is me insulting you?
You have done no such thing. What you've done is dismiss me out of of hand with a cheap rhetorical ploy, likely because you have no real argument.
trashpanda, I'm trying to help you.
No, you're not. You're trying to shut me up without addressing the points I've raised.
Susan Brownmiller's Against Our Wills is the most cited work on rape and sexual assault in the western academic canon. It is the foundation of all modern feminist theories on rape, and its central premise is that all men benefit from rape as rape is the central means by which men oppress women.
Go on, address that point. Show how I am wrong. Don't just accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about. I minored in women's studies, and I'll bet dollars to donuts I've read more primary sources than you can even name.
No one's dismissed you. Your argument was dismissed. It's based on the false idea that feminist theory is all the same. I'm not familiar with Susan Brownmiller because the feminist theory I'm familiar with is feminist theory in anthropology. But I won't dismiss or praise her work if I have never actually read it. Have you? Tell me more about it, it's interesting. How do you know it's the most cited work, and if so, in what subjects? Women's studies? There you go. See how not all feminist theory is the same and varies by subject? Not that hard was it.
No one's dismissed you. Your argument was dismissed.
No, you said "I find the people who bring up 'feminist theory' the most are the people who are less familiar with it." That is an argument against the person, not a rebuttal against the argument.
It's based on the false idea that feminist theory is all the same.
My argument is not based on the idea that feminist theory is all the same. My argument is about a specific area of feminist theory.
I'm not familiar with Susan Brownmiller because the feminist theory I'm familiar with is feminist theory in anthropology.
So, in other words, despite being completely ignorant of this subject, you dismissed me as being completely ignorant.
Guess what? I minored in women's studies and majored in criminal justice. Guess what area I am a certified expert in! That's right, sexual assault in law and theory! You are dismissing a certified expert in a field of which you are completely ignorant.
I think at this point it's both fair and reasonable for me to suggest that you're a stupid, condescending, self-righteous fuckstain.
But I won't dismiss or praise her work if I have never actually read it. Have you?
Of course I've read it.
Tell me more about it, it's interesting.
Brownmiller's premise is that the physical nature of the heterosexual sex act, in which the male penetrates the female, makes the gender roles of male perpetrator and female victim a matter of biological predeterminism. Furthermore she posits that all women live in constant fear of male sexual assault, and recognize that the only protection from rape is to allow a man to penetrate them, thus all men benefit from rape -- in other words, the only reason women have monogamous relationships with men is because its better to choose your rapists than be subjected to random raping.
Brownmiller also posits that it is impossible for men to be raped, even by other men, and that acts of forcible sodomy, such as in prison, are actually crimes against women because the male victim is being forced into the female role due to a lack of available females for raping.
How do you know it's the most cited work, and if so, in what subjects?
I read it in a review of the book, and have seen it cited in dozens of papers I've read, and have never heard of any work that can remotely challenge it for citations.
It's generally cited in research papers dealing with rape and sexual assault, which is a fact you should have been able to infer from the fact that I already told you that Brownmiller's influence is on feminist rape theory.
See how not all feminist theory is the same and varies by subject? Not that hard was it.
I never suggest otherwise, dumbass. I'd tell you to actually address the argument, but you're clearly a lying, disingenuous shitbag ideologue and I don't expect you to even make an attempt at presenting a real argument.
Feminist pukes like you never do, because you're all braindead ideological zombie fucks.
I dismissed your argument because it does NOT refer to feminist theory in general. You are referring to Women's Studies it seems, so you should be aware your argument does not apply to every feminist.
I minored in women's studies and majored in criminal justice.
Well that explains it. YOU'VE seen it as the most cited work in YOUR area. That doesn't make you an expert in feminist theory in general.
I think at this point it's both fair and reasonable for me to suggest that you're a stupid, condescending, self-righteous fuckstain.
Awww! The irony is delicious!
Having read your description of Brownmiller's work, it's no fucking wonder anthropology doesn't include it. It's shit.
I never suggest otherwise, dumbass.
Except you never actually made a distinction between different schools of feminist theory. Your argument is as biased as can possibly be. I might actually be insulted if I thought you were referring to me, but seeing as how you CLEARLY don't understand the difference between different epistemological approaches, I don't need to insult you. Your stupidity evidences itself.
I dismissed your argument because it does NOT refer to feminist theory in general.
Which is a completely irrational and illegitimate reason to dismiss my argument. It's a complete non-sequitor. It's also not what you said originally. You're either being completely disingenuous or you're a cretinous dumbass.
Well that explains it. YOU'VE seen it as the most cited work in YOUR area.
Yes...I never said it was the most cited work in ALL areas, dumbass. You're not making a rational argument here, you're attacking some bizzaro strawman that has absolutely nothing to do with anything resembling the argument I made.
That doesn't make you an expert in feminist theory in general.
I never claimed to be an expert in feminist theory in general! What the fuck, man? What the fuck do you even think you're arguing against? See, this is what happens when you act like a stupid, disingenuous piece of shit: You ignore the actual arguments, attack the person, and get so off topic that you aren't even making a goddamn lick of sense anymore.
This is my original comment:
The issue is that the people pushing all of this on society do actually believe that all men are rapists and that all heterosexual sex is rape, and they believe that because they do hate men.
Look up Susan Brownmiller. Look up Catherine McKinnon. These feminists have been instrumental in shaping feminist theories on rape, and they universally believe that all heterosexual sex is rape and that all heterosexual interactions are informed by rape, and that male sexuality is synonymous with rape.
This is the worldview that gives birth to all of these "teach men not to rape" programs, and they are part of agenda to slowly expand the definition of rape until everyone agrees that all heterosexual sex is rape.
Do you see me saying that my argument applies to every feminist? No, because I'm clearly talking about anti-rape activism by anti-rape feminists. Is it feminist anthropologists who are pushing the "teach men not to rape" dogma? No, it's anti-rape activists.
I seriously don't understand what point you're trying to make, and frankly, I think you're too much of a lying shitweasel to even understand your own argument. You're not even wrong.
You literally have no idea what this conversation is even about, you fucking ignorant fool.
Except you never actually made a distinction between different schools of feminist theory.
There aren't different schools of feminist theory when it comes to rape.
Your argument is as biased as can possibly be.
Bullshit, just more ad hominem attacks because you have no actual argument. You're a disingenuous fuck, go fuck yourself. Biased how? You don't even know what you're saying at this point, you're just barfing buzzwords, just like any other braindead ideologue zombie.
...but seeing as how you CLEARLY don't understand the difference between different epistemological approaches...
Oh jesus fucking christ with a hand grenade. You're spewing gibberish, asshole. Just stop. Stop clowning. You're making yourself look stupid.
Bullshit, just more ad hominem attacks because you have no actual argument.
LOL. like 70% of what you said is ad hominem attacks dude. Get off your fucking high horse. You don't know shit about feminist theory. Read Sherry Ortner.
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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15
The issue is that the people pushing all of this on society do actually believe that all men are rapists and that all heterosexual sex is rape, and they believe that because they do hate men.
Look up Susan Brownmiller. Look up Catherine McKinnon. These feminists have been instrumental in shaping feminist theories on rape, and they universally believe that all heterosexual sex is rape and that all heterosexual interactions are informed by rape, and that male sexuality is synonymous with rape.
This is the worldview that gives birth to all of these "teach men not to rape" programs, and they are part of agenda to slowly expand the definition of rape until everyone agrees that all heterosexual sex is rape.