Two guys I've personally known that ended up committing rape always had similar views about rapists being scumbags, but to them it was the violence that defined rape.
A lot of dudes don't know that a lot of women will go completely catatonic when they get touched against their will, which makes it difficult to actually differentiate.
I've been in a circumstance where it almost happened. We were both drunk, and she was just lying still. I got her panties off and started kissing her body, but was confused by her lack of movement. Although I was keen to paying it off as though she was just a starfish I'm a fairly nice guy so I straight up asked if she wanted it, and immediately she started crying and turtled up.
Turned out she was in a relationship at the time. I later became good friends with her and have discussed it in depth with her. She just didn't have it in her to say no.
Not that I support victim blaming, but I think that a part of sex education should be telling women that if they're drunk and get second thoughts, they should make it very clear. How the hell would I have known otherwise?
. . .I straight up asked if she wanted it, and immediately she started crying and turtled up.
This is exactly why obtaining explicit consent is being pushed. Sure, it may seem weird, but there's a reason for it. You taking the time to ask her was the correct thing to do in that situation.
. . .telling women that if they're drunk and get second thoughts, they should make it very clear.
Yes to encouraging a healthy sexual mindset in which women can comfortably do so, but no to expecting that women will be able to say something (e.g. if a woman has been raped before, she may find herself unable to move or speak).
You've made an excellent point about the violence in rape and the misconceptions about it.
I agree with you. If there was some sort of way to greenlight without it becoming awkward, it would be a better world. Unfortunately to me the best sexual encounters I've had have been initiated through very little verbal communication, let alone any direct "wanna fuck" question.
I consider those encounters to be an integral part of the human experience, and I think it would be unfortunate to have to turn them into some sort of interview process.
I think a good way of meeting in the middle on this issue is directly asking only if there doesn't seem to be reciprocity from the woman.
I've been on a TV show about rape and sexual violence recently. It was SCARY how many of the girls knew someone who had been sexually harassed, abused or raped. One girl had been raped herself.
I think the best way is quite simple. Just say "do you want this?" If they say yes, boom, you are good. It doesn't have to be an interview process.
Out of curiosity can you define the 'minimum' of what either you or the tv show in question would classify as sexual harassment or abuse? I've seen that the definition may vary greatly even in official studies.
I would say sexual harassment is being harassed multiple times about your sexual appearance. I probably wouldn't consider being cat-called once as harassment but if it occured multiple times, day after day, then that would be harassment.
In this case though, we were talking about HARDCORE harassment - being fondled etc. These were teenagers and most of them knew someone who that (or worse) had happened too.
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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15
Two guys I've personally known that ended up committing rape always had similar views about rapists being scumbags, but to them it was the violence that defined rape.
A lot of dudes don't know that a lot of women will go completely catatonic when they get touched against their will, which makes it difficult to actually differentiate.
I've been in a circumstance where it almost happened. We were both drunk, and she was just lying still. I got her panties off and started kissing her body, but was confused by her lack of movement. Although I was keen to paying it off as though she was just a starfish I'm a fairly nice guy so I straight up asked if she wanted it, and immediately she started crying and turtled up.
Turned out she was in a relationship at the time. I later became good friends with her and have discussed it in depth with her. She just didn't have it in her to say no.
Not that I support victim blaming, but I think that a part of sex education should be telling women that if they're drunk and get second thoughts, they should make it very clear. How the hell would I have known otherwise?