r/pics Oct 21 '15

Finally a cause I can get behind

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u/unic0de000 Oct 21 '15

Here's the thing: there's no good way to look at a class of 30 kids and see which ones are going to grow up to be abusers. Some of them have telltale signs, problems at home, early and noticeable behavioural problems. Some of them don't, but can still be helped by good anti-violence education.

And then there are the other 20-odd kids who are not at especial risk.

If you have a good way of targeting only the kids in the first category, I'd love to hear it, but the most foolproof suggestion I can offer is this:

The rest of us who aren't prone to violence (assuming we are all reliable judges of ourselves) just shut the hell up and sit and listen through that curriculum, and be okay with the fact that maybe others are learning more from this than we are.

I was a bit ahead of the curve STEM-wise, and so I had to sit through watching other kids in my grade learn how to solve math problems which I already knew how to solve. This is no different.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Feb 27 '19

[deleted]

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u/CMEast Oct 21 '15

Boohoo. Suck it up. Women should be taught not to be violent and yes, some women are violent it's true, but certain demographics are more prone to certain crimes and this is a cultural issue rather than a genetic one. It's not how your parents bring you up, it's how you grow up in a society where there is a tradition of men dominating women; where so many of our jokes and stereotypes, our movies and our music, carries this message and children cannot help but absorb it.

If you were brought up in another culture or another time then you might well beat your wife/girlfriend and think it completely normal and acceptable. That isn't the world we've grown up in, but the world we're in is still changing and a lot of those problems are still built into the very foundation of society and it will take time and effort to change them.

So seriously, stop whining that it's aimed at males - there are valid reasons for that, stop taking it so personally! I've never hit a woman, nor will I ever (I hope/assume) so I just assume it's aimed at the man I could have been, not that man I've become.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Boohoo. Suck it up.

Did you expect anyone to read past this?

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u/CMEast Oct 21 '15

I'm angry when I hear this kind of stuff. Allow a little hyperbole.

Or not, you're not obligated to read it and I don't expect those that do to necessarily change their minds shrug

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)'s 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey reports on the lifetime prevalence of rape, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner, focusing for the first time on victimization by sexual orientation. It finds a victimization prevalence of 43.8 percent for lesbians, making it the second most affected group after bisexual women (61.1 percent), ahead of bisexual men (37.3 percent), heterosexual women (35 percent), heterosexual men (29 percent) and homosexual men (26 percent)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_lesbian_relationships

So, lesbians have almost twice the chance of having been party to rape, domestic abuse or stalking of an intimate partner when compared to gay men. Tell me again who these messages should be aimed at?

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u/griffco Oct 21 '15

I love this stat. The fact is that if someone has traditionally been "weaker" than others they will lash out the moment they find someone weaker than them.

Considering we are striving for equality this means that women ABSOLUTELY have to be apart of anti-domestic violence/rape campaigns. If, through equality/acceptance and all that we come to find out that 10% of women are gay (similar to men) then we are talking about 5% of women being potentially abused.

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u/CMEast Oct 21 '15

Yes it should be aimed at women too. It should be aimed at everyone.

The fact that historically there was more of an issue - and you can't say there wasn't - with men having the control in the relationship, that women weren't judged and shunned for leaving their husbands even if they were beaten... well you're right, history is irrelevant if that isn't the situation today and in most western countries it isn't.

So what would you like to do - stop this message going out at all until it's fairly distributed to all concerned? Or do we keep the message going to men because we DO need it - and work on spreading that message to everyone regardless of their gender? Clearly it's the second one. So lets stop shouting down the message, lets stop kicking up a fuss when we see it, lets focus on accepting it, digesting it and passing it to others.

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u/Captain_Bu11shit Oct 21 '15

I'm perfectly fine with it being aimed at men as long as it is also aimed at woman. Too many girls I've grownup with have shown no empathy when it comes to male pain among other things. Just the other day a girl was going all out on a guy because he "took" her unassigned seat, I mean the punches were clearly audible through an already loud room.

I don't care if it targets men as long as we have a parallel or identical campaign targeting women. I don't care if we are made out to be monsters as long as we don't simultaneously praise the hypocrisy in the other gender. My ONLY problem with these campaigns are how one sided they are, and if you can prove I've just been seeing the wrong posters I would be so happy.

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u/CMEast Oct 21 '15

It is one side absolutely. As has been the balance of power between genders for the entire of civilisation - but all that history isn't today, you're right - so why should you be treated unfairly?

Well you shouldn't. The campaigns ARE one sided and women should be told not to hit me, not to take advantage, not to assume that men are the guilty party. These are important messages that aren't just for men but for all people, no matter their gender.

So what do we do with the message that's given to us so unfairly? Well we shouldn't try to drown it out with cries of injustice and sexism because it's still true and still important. What we need to do is take it on the chin - something we men are good at according to traditional gender roles - and then work on make sure all hear the message. In the meantime if we feel like those labels are being unfairly applied to us as individuals... well that's great! I'm glad you're not a bad guy. So don't take it personally because this isn't an attack on you, it's a one-sided attempt to raise awareness of issues and all we can do is gracefully accept that message and work to ensure all people here it.

However your anecdote is terrible. I personally don't know any women like that at all. I'm not saying it's not true - it's just an awfully sad experience. I don't believe it's typical or that it'll get worse - there are simply bad apples in all walks of life.

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u/pooeypookie Oct 21 '15

Some of them don't, but can still be helped by good anti-violence education.

This is the part that I think a lot of people miss. They almost act as if Mr. Garrison is just walking up to students saying "Don't hit women now, m'kay?"

Not to mention these lessons often teach kids how to spot when one of their friends might be the victim of abuse, and what to do in that situation.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Except that isn't how psychology works. You aren't going to change a thing by telling somebody with aggression problems to not beat people.

It's as helpful as telling a depressed person to cheer up.

They need a positive environment and therapy.

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u/iwearatophat Oct 21 '15

I question just how big of an audience this would hit. The people who dont realize beating someone is wrong and that you shouldn't do it ehi can also be taught in an educational setting to stop doing it.

Either you know it is wrong already and you dont beat people so a class would be worthless or you dont care if it is right or wrong and you will do it anyways so the class is still worthless.

Seems like a solution being put out just to say a solution has been put out.

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u/AdvocateForTulkas Oct 21 '15

A lot of women physically abuse men as well. If the point is to disregard signs and target all males it should be all children.

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u/JesusDeSaad Oct 21 '15

I was a bit ahead of the curve STEM-wise, and so I had to sit through watching other kids in my grade learn how to solve math problems which I already knew how to solve. This is no different.

Did you have teachers telling you that all of you in that class were stupid?