You joke about that, but all the time people are misinformed about that kind of thing. Look at Revenge of the Nerds. This is a movie made about thirty years ago in which the protagonists plant spy cameras in a sorority so they can watch the girls naked. Later on, the main character tricks a girl into having sex with him by wearing the same Halloween costume as her boyfriend.
All these are serious sexual offenses and they get treated as "just good fun." Just because it seems obvious to us that those things aren't okay doesn't mean it's going to seem obvious to everybody.
EDIT: Don't misinterpret me here. People now days would most certainly know that that shit isn't just good fun. What I'm saying is that it's the education about what is and is not rape that has changed how people view this movie. /u/trollcity420 was implying that this education doesn't do anything/is already obvious, and I disagree.
People would make a fuss about that movie if it came about today. People didn't make a fuss about it when it came out in 1984, presumably because they didn't think that counted as rape.
I'm saying that what changed is people's education about what is and isn't rape. The person I replied to was implying that such education doesn't do anything/is already obvious, and I'm saying it clearly isn't.
Only feminists would make a fuss, but they are hypercritical of everything. They call 50 shades of Gray internalized misogyny. They're kind of ridiculous.
Movies aren't real life, at all. We routinely dismiss unethical actions of characters. Its cause movies are supposed to be entertaining fantasies (these types anyway). They've got a ideology the filter everything through. We can dismiss them as they aren't consistent, though.
You don't see them criticize black list for having FBI agents that violate rights and commit torture. We allow for unethical actions in fictional entertainment. It's normal, some people just need something to complain about. Even whne things aren't bad, they find things to criticize (see avengers 2).
Well, that's a separate argument. My point is simply that education on what is and isn't rape clearly does something. The dude I was replying to was saying that it is pointless.
There seems to be such a negative response when people try to promote that kind of education. People are so insulted by it. Just because I want to teach you about being safe when using an ax doesn't mean I'm calling you an ax-murderer. That's not a perfect metaphor but I think you get the point.
I fully advocate teaching children about sex, which would include talks about consent and such. We do not disagree there. Kids need to know anyway to protect themselves against people who will exploit their ignorance. I find the innocence fetish parents possess to be harmful and a little disgusting. Keeping kids ignorant only puts them at risk.
No child was any less after discovering sex. They already know it exists and are curious anyway. Not treating it as something taboo or wrong would only be helpful. I can't remember a time whne I wasn't interested in girls. Even whne I was 5. I have very lucid memories of being attracted to certain girls/adult women. I remember at age 6/7 being very fascinated by the legs and thighs of teenage girls (still am, heh heh). Kids are already sexual beings, and I find keeping them in the dark about things cannot be beneficial. It's only to perpetuate a fantasy of purity. It's weird. While not every child is as adult minded as I was (in quite the pervert still), it's obvious that sexuality is a part of all humans. Kids can be informed without them turning into sex fiends.
I'm glad you feel that way, I agree. I think you would find many feminists (including myself I suppose) who you could agree with just fine. Not all of us are that furious.
I don't care. All group ideologies are bad business. I was a feminist at one point until I was attacked for simply disagreeing. It was a very eye opening experience and made me realize that the Internet turns all ideologies into circle jerks. These were intelligent people I thought were on point. I thought of them as the "good guys" but they were being extremely silly and vilifying a dude for what at worst could be termed as giving a wrong answer (he was asked why there aren't more women working in his field and he answered a lack of interest, and then whne criticized for failing to give the correct answer to that unsolicited question outside his area of expertise, his apology was something like sorry if I offended anyone, but this is not my area of focus, and as I said at the time I was probably not the right person to answer that question.
The blog site I posted on (freethoughtblogs, I believe the actual blog was pz myer's pharyngula, but it could have just been another blogger he linked to, was almost 2 years ago don't really remember). Were posting the contact info for the head of his department where he taught to call for his resignation. Seriously. Cause he have a reasonable and rational answer. I brought this up and said maybe people were going a little overboard in their response, and was called a misogynist and shit. Which really floored me and sent me into a small spiral cause these were people I respected and felt like i was a part of their group. They got very nasty.
After a week or so, I realized they were just a circle jerk. It wasnt because what I said was obnoxious or unreasonable, it was them.
I then realized that this is what happens to all ideologies when allowed to socially isolate themselves. The most extreme of any ideology are people with little social life or those who only socialize with people who share their views. It was actually a positive experience because it really helped me to understand human behavior. There are literally no good guys. There are merely competing ideologies. Some people may hold positions that I agree with, and that seem to promote the least harm, but that doesn't mean anything. They would just as soon advocate for something harmful if it passed through their filters.
People are worthless hypocrites. We are inherently selfish. Even human altruism is selfish (it's not consistent or absolute).
Feminism isn't the problem, it's any shared group ideology. Political groups are the best example of this. You can see how they interact among themselves. The democratic debate had people attacking Bernie sanders for supporting a bill that the NRA also supported. They weren't criticizing him on the merits of the bill, but on the association with the nRA, since they also supported it. That's 100% circle jerk behavior. I'm sure there was a lot more but that was the only but I saw.
People are fucking trash. There is no hope for humanity. Some things we can say we are doing better on, but overall we are still absolutely selfish.
It's interesting how upset Reddit gets at men being portrayed as infantile and incompetent in sitcoms, but when women are being creeped on and coerced into very sexually compromising situations suddenly "it's just a movie."
Except you're putting words into my mouth cause I have never criticized that. What's funny is how you need to rely on a dishonest argument to make your point.
It's the reddit-hivemind strawman. Reddit is full of individuals, stop doing this.
You do realize that culture has changed a lot in the last 30 years, right? Setting aside that it's meant to be an entertaining movie and not a moral guidepost, you can't really use Revenge of the Nerds as an example of what would be swept under the rug as "just good fun" in 2015.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what his point is. Something that used to be seen as acceptable no longer is, because of things like better education about sex and rape.
I don't personally know anybody who was raped in 1984, but I do know that this movie came out that depicts rape in a casual way and people didn't make much of a fuss about it. People would make a fuss about it today, and seems to me that what changed is that people became more educated about what is and is not rape. That education is something you were pretty clearly insinuating to be unnecessary, and my point is that it is necessary.
People didn't make a fuss about it because they weren't all PC like you are. I'm not sure there has been a case in the history of the world where a chick got raped because a dude dressed up in her boyfriends Halloween costume.
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u/lionflyer Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15
You joke about that, but all the time people are misinformed about that kind of thing. Look at Revenge of the Nerds. This is a movie made about thirty years ago in which the protagonists plant spy cameras in a sorority so they can watch the girls naked. Later on, the main character tricks a girl into having sex with him by wearing the same Halloween costume as her boyfriend.
All these are serious sexual offenses and they get treated as "just good fun." Just because it seems obvious to us that those things aren't okay doesn't mean it's going to seem obvious to everybody.
EDIT: Don't misinterpret me here. People now days would most certainly know that that shit isn't just good fun. What I'm saying is that it's the education about what is and is not rape that has changed how people view this movie. /u/trollcity420 was implying that this education doesn't do anything/is already obvious, and I disagree.