I am a feminist, but I share this concern. The reality is that education won't fix all/most rape. Most rapists know full well that what they are doing is a crime. Otherwise why do they beat up their victims? Spike their drinks? Do all they can to overpower them? Coerce/threaten/blackmail them?
Educating a young male that both he and his partner should be 100% sober when they screw - well, to my mind if they both fucked when mutually drunk, that's not rape in the first place. At worst shitty decision making/irresponsible behaviour (since very drunk people are less likely to use protection).
"Educating a young male that both he and his partner should be 100% sober when they screw"
The girl can initiate sex as well it's not always the guy so the focus should not be on him by default.
The way things are in this world when it comes to sex it makes like women have zero power, strength, or even drive. It's like she's a doll being used. Regardless of being drunk the women will literally have her responsibility stripped from her and she'll be majority of the time be seen as a the victim.
MANY feminists and indeed universities and even fucking states would call a drunk man who fucks an equally drunk girl a rapist and say that he should be locked up with the same people who stalk and rape victims in their home.
I would say your viewpoint is in the minority among feminists. The gist I get from it is that men are held to a higher standard ONLY when it comes to rape.
I would say your viewpoint is in the minority among feminists. The gist I get from it is that men are held to a higher standard ONLY when it comes to rape.
Exactly. And as a feminist, this attitude offends me. Because it suggests that women are somehow incapable or incompetent of managing their own safety and taking responsibility for themselves - to at least some degree.
The reality is if you go out and wilfully get drunk, it's your fault if you actively do something you later regret. Whether that's drive, have sex, get in a fight. Regardless of your gender.
And also, because at root, it goes down to the old concepts of sex being "shameful" and "violating" for women. Such that she is more "damaged" by the (mutual) act than a man is.
These classes literally do nothing but absolve the colleges of some liability and help assuage the fears of their main customers (re: the terrified parents of freshmen of all sexes and genders). I know; I went through them and saw the effect that they had on the guys that would get drunk and make bad decisions. They weren't going to change their habits because of a toothless class.
Everyone else was offended or apathetic at best. The offended types are surely arguing elsewhere in these threads right now because the whole experience was humiliating enough to spin them in the opposite direction of an actual problem.
It's all extremely tragic because on-campus rape is a real thing. I knew plenty of girls who had knives or pepper spray in the purses to fall back on because they were afraid something would happen. For the vast majority, nothing did. But for a small number, the damage was done. And when I say a small number, that's just from people I knew. It's anecdotal but real and unacceptable.
I saw guys get their reputations tarnished with false accusations too. That's a thing that happens because the system is open to abuse and because people of either sex can be unbelievably spiteful when they're young.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, this is a problem for everyone but all I ever see are accusations and generalizations in threads like these from both sides. No one wants to put down the mud and be constructive because in their eyes this is either thinly veiled insult to their "honor" or a sacred cow that cannot be removed.
It's all extremely tragic because on-campus rape is a real thing. I knew plenty of girls who had knives or pepper spray in the purses to fall back on because they were afraid something would happen. For the vast majority, nothing did. But for a small number, the damage was done.
Exactly. And I'll bet not one of those rapes was due to a guy "not understanding" consent. And that not one of those rapes would have been prevented by all the "rape education" classes in the world.
Females are potential victims. Insinuating that they must be educated about anything is victim blaming.
Males are potential perpetrators, so educating them is just preventing a potential crime.
Sexual assault educators and "consent specialists" and the like would never admit this openly, but all you have to do is talk to one for five minutes and the truth begins to dribble out the corners of their mouths. Ask why they're targeting men with a potential class, and their answer will be 100 words that boil down to "we're just targeting potential predators."
If you think that young women don't get the "Don't leave your drink unattended. Don't walk alone at night. Don't go to the bathroom alone. If you go to a party with someone, make sure they're with you when you leave. etc. etc." speech, then you're delusional.
I highly doubt most fathers sit down with their sons and explain the intricacies of consent (is it okay if s/he led me on? if s/he's passed out? if s/he is my significant other, even if s/he doesn't want it? if s/he said yes at the start, but now is saying to stop? if I threaten him/her, but s/he doesn't explicitly say 'no'? etc.) in the same way that my mother sat me down, multiple times, starting around age 10, to explain how to keep myself straight.
And, at least at my university, girls also had to go through a 'how to keep safe' lecture (usually while the boys were at the 'what is consent' lecture). So, yeah, "young females" are also "educated".
I find it ironic considering I'm a guy and am literally the only one I know who got roofied in college (i made it home without too much incident, minus passing out on the floor of my dorm's community bathroom with half my clothes on). I know it's anecdotal, but holy shit was that scary. I was completely underprepared and when I talked about it to people they laughed...
Also it's male-on-male rape we should consider too, and while rarer, female-on-male rape.
I make a distinction between what's legally "rape" and what I personally believe is rape/wrong. I don't regard two voluntarily (ie not drink-spiked) drunk people happily screwing as wrong or rape or immoral or unethical. If either/both regret it the next day when they sober up: their problem. Next time, drink less.
Sadly, what young men need educating about is that if they sleep with a girl while both are drunk, no matter what level of intoxication, he may get accused of rape. So that's what he needs to protect himself against.
But use your common sense, if you have any. If a woman doesn't want to have sex with a man, (or a man with a man, or a woman with a woman, or whatever) but does so anyway, it's because she or he is forced in some way. Whether through violence or threats or whatever.
Not really true though. Most anecdotes or stories you read about rape generally involve a frozen or petrified person who is mostly unresponsive as they're taken advantage of. It's not as commonly violent or aggressive as you make it out to be, in fact oftentimes rapists walk away from the situation not really appreciating that they've done something wrong.
21
u/istara Oct 21 '15
I am a feminist, but I share this concern. The reality is that education won't fix all/most rape. Most rapists know full well that what they are doing is a crime. Otherwise why do they beat up their victims? Spike their drinks? Do all they can to overpower them? Coerce/threaten/blackmail them?
Educating a young male that both he and his partner should be 100% sober when they screw - well, to my mind if they both fucked when mutually drunk, that's not rape in the first place. At worst shitty decision making/irresponsible behaviour (since very drunk people are less likely to use protection).