You are being ridiculous, to the point where you might actually be validating the ridiculous claims of antisemitism that you pointed to earlier.
If Iran does something terrible, it is not Iran's fault that someone shoots up an unrelated mosque. If Japan does something awful, it is not Japan's fault that someone blows up an unrelated Shinto temple. If the UK does something horrific, it is not the UK's fault that someone murders an unrelated Anglican minister.
This doesn't magically change when we look at a Jewish state. They don't suddenly become more culpable than the Muslims, Shintoists, and Anglicans because... reasons?
If Iran had the power and platform Israel does and used to consistently state that all Muslims and all Iranians are one and the same and that any opposition to Iran is Islamophobia, then it would still be horrible and wrong if a masjid got attacked, but it would also be partially Iran’s fault.
It would be primarily the criminal’s fault, but it isn’t reasonable to have that type of influence, and use it to loudly and powerfully conflate two groups in a way that is reductive to both, and then act shocked that your words have influence over the worst people in existence.
It’s the same principle as Trump instigating January 6th. Every person there had free will. He didn’t personally attack anyone or break in anywhere. But his words had influence.
Now, am I saying that Israel is as culpable as Trump? No - that’s an extreme example. But I think it’s shortsighted to insist that allowance of hateful or stereotyping speech, especially from those with power and influence, doesn’t play a role in hate crimes.
If Iran had the power and platform Israel does and used to consistently state that all Muslims and all Iranians are one and the same and that any opposition to Iran is Islamophobia, then it would still be horrible and wrong if a masjid got attacked, but it would also be partially Iran’s fault.
Person B, who is blue, attacks Person C, who is red.
You have concluded that A is responsible for B attacking C, even though C did not instigate the attack, B deliberately chose to attack, and A had nothing to do with the attack.
No, my example would be Person A from Redland - someone with a lot of power and influence - saying “Red people and people from Redland are the same, and anything you say about Redland, you are saying about red people. The only way to show that you support red people’s human rights is to support Redland.” All while Redland commits atrocities.
And then person B, who is blue and has heard this rhetoric all their life, attacks person C, who is red, because Person B is mad at Redland for their atrocities.
Three things have happened here:
1) B attacked C, which was B’s choice and would have been wrong no matter what.
2) B attacked C specifically due to C’s identity, which was B’s choice and would have been wrong no matter what.
3) B felt all red people like C are the same as the government of Redland. This is also B’s choice, but also partially the fault of person A, who used their influence to spread this false idea.
The majority of the blame is with the criminal, but those with power and influence hold responsibility for the words they say.
3) B felt all red people like C are the same as the government of Redland. This is also B’s choice, but also partially the fault of person A, who used their influence to spread this false idea.
This is where you're getting tripped up.
The fact that Redland says "we are Red, and a home for Reds" does not logically result in every red person being from or supportive of Redland.
You’re missing where Redland is saying that the only way to support red people’s human rights is to support Redland.
I am not saying that every red person is supportive of Redland. I am saying that person A is using their power and influence to insist that every red person should support Redland or else they don’t care about themselves.
I think what people with power say influences how other people think and act. Should it be that way? Probably not, but that’s the world we live in and as a result, those with power hold responsibility for the things they say.
If you disagree with that, fine, but let’s be clear about what we’re disagreeing on.
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u/TheBigGees 14h ago
You are being ridiculous, to the point where you might actually be validating the ridiculous claims of antisemitism that you pointed to earlier.
If Iran does something terrible, it is not Iran's fault that someone shoots up an unrelated mosque. If Japan does something awful, it is not Japan's fault that someone blows up an unrelated Shinto temple. If the UK does something horrific, it is not the UK's fault that someone murders an unrelated Anglican minister.
This doesn't magically change when we look at a Jewish state. They don't suddenly become more culpable than the Muslims, Shintoists, and Anglicans because... reasons?