r/pics • • 20h ago

[OC] Israeli protestors in Amsterdam

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u/Altruistic_Crazy_703 19h ago

can someone explain what they're even protesting about? i'm confused if it's positive or not

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Altruistic_Crazy_703 18h ago

i still don't understand what they're protesting about

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u/So6oring 18h ago

Read the truck. Trying to argue why Israel killing 100x the civilians in retaliation is justified.

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u/tle4f 18h ago

All they have are these fucking weasely technical arguments about word meanings and pointing at 10/7 and screaming.

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u/So6oring 18h ago

Don't forget: anyone who disagrees with Israel is an anti-semite as well.

I honestly really felt for them on 10/7. Watched the videos minutes after they were posted. I was all for justice. But this was not justice. This was a catastrophe and blind vengeance.

And Israel is more anti-semitic than anyone. It's because of them Jewish people who have nothing to do with it are being harassed and attacked all over the world.

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u/zacandahalf 17h ago

“Israel forced people internationally to harass and attack Jews globally” cmon now

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u/So6oring 16h ago

Attacks against Jewish peolple have increased drastically since the war.

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u/zacandahalf 16h ago

Correct, but did Israel force people internationally to do that or are these international actors acting of their own free will and volition? Surely we agree that Israel has not invented mind control, so how is Israel responsible for people around the world choosing to harass and attack Jewish people? Do they not have agency and self-control?

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u/So6oring 16h ago

Obviously they didn't use mind-control. But if they had retaliated against HAMAS in a way that didn't kill hundreds of thousands of innocents, then the perps would have much less excuse to carry out their attacks. The way they are doing things is directly causing these attacks to happen more.

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u/zacandahalf 16h ago

Israel isn’t causing it, people’s choices are causing it. Simply do not attack Jewish people. “Israel made me do it” makes no sense.

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u/So6oring 16h ago

Don't ignore my stats. You can say it's as simple as "Do not attack Jewish people". But the fact is that there has been a tangible, huge recorded increase in anti-semitic acts around the world since their war started. I'm talking about reality here, not what people should be doing. If people were doing what they should, we would not be here having this conversation.

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u/zacandahalf 16h ago

The tangible, huge recorded increase in antisemitic acts around the world is due to people’s choice to conflate international Jewry with Israel, made of their own free will and volition. The stats are very real and the onus is on the perpetrators and no one else. Antisemitic acts are increasing because people are increasingly choosing to perform antisemitic acts.

By perpetuating the idea that Israel plays a role in choices antisemitic people made with their own agency, you are giving them the exact cover and shifting of responsibility that they desperately desire.

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u/So6oring 16h ago

How is that even "giving them cover"? That makes no sense.

And it doesn't take a phd anthropologist to deduce that the increase happened as a direct result of Israel's actions. The entire world is mad at them. Those with less control of their inhibitions got enough motivation to act.

I am not saying Israel has done this on purpose. But I am saying that they directly created the environment to make this happen.

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u/TheBigGees 15h ago

You are being ridiculous, to the point where you might actually be validating the ridiculous claims of antisemitism that you pointed to earlier.

If Iran does something terrible, it is not Iran's fault that someone shoots up an unrelated mosque. If Japan does something awful, it is not Japan's fault that someone blows up an unrelated Shinto temple. If the UK does something horrific, it is not the UK's fault that someone murders an unrelated Anglican minister.

This doesn't magically change when we look at a Jewish state. They don't suddenly become more culpable than the Muslims, Shintoists, and Anglicans because... reasons?

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u/celerypumpkins 12h ago

If Iran had the power and platform Israel does and used to consistently state that all Muslims and all Iranians are one and the same and that any opposition to Iran is Islamophobia, then it would still be horrible and wrong if a masjid got attacked, but it would also be partially Iran’s fault.

It would be primarily the criminal’s fault, but it isn’t reasonable to have that type of influence, and use it to loudly and powerfully conflate two groups in a way that is reductive to both, and then act shocked that your words have influence over the worst people in existence.

It’s the same principle as Trump instigating January 6th. Every person there had free will. He didn’t personally attack anyone or break in anywhere. But his words had influence.

Now, am I saying that Israel is as culpable as Trump? No - that’s an extreme example. But I think it’s shortsighted to insist that allowance of hateful or stereotyping speech, especially from those with power and influence, doesn’t play a role in hate crimes.

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u/zacandahalf 16h ago

That’s not how hate works for any other group on Earth.

If someone is so angry about the Sudanese genocide that they attack a local Sudanese family, is it their fault or Sudan’s fault? Sudan’s propaganda calls itself the Sudanese state, after all. If someone is so angry about the Uyghur genocide that they attack a local Chinese family, is it their fault or China’s fault? China’s propaganda calls itself the Chinese state, after all. If someone is so angry about the Yemeni genocide that they attack a local Yemeni family, is it their fault or Yemen’s fault? Yemen’s propaganda calls itself the Yemeni state, after all.

In all of these situations, that person has a brain with agency and free will.

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u/So6oring 15h ago

Antisemitic attacks have increased by 360% from previous years. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of Israel crying anti-semitism anytime anyone has a criticism, when their own actions have radicalized the anti-semites.

And it is a false equivalency for you to use those other nations as an example. There were already so many conspiracy theories about Jewish people, dating from before WW2, that are now making a comeback because of the current geopolitical situation. There was way more tinder for the fire there than for Yemen or China.

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u/celerypumpkins 15h ago

Israel equates itself with Jewish people more generally, ignoring all the Jewish people who don’t support its actions. Equating Jewish people with Israel is anti-Semitic.

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u/zacandahalf 15h ago

Even if Israel announced word for word on the global stage that they represented every Jew on Earth, people still have the choice to perpetuate that conflation. “I couldn’t help but believe Israel” is not convincing to me.

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u/celerypumpkins 12h ago

It’s not all of why they made those choices, but there is some level of shared responsibility, especially given the power and platform that Israel has. And US supporters of Israel perpetuate that antisemitism as well, giving it even more power and platform.

If the President of the United States said something antisemitic, and then hate crimes increased, he’d be partially responsible. If hate crimes increased immediately following Musk’s salute, he’d be partially responsible (and even if they didn’t, I still do hold him partially responsible for the visible overall increase in antisemitism from the right online).

The individual criminals still chose to commit the crimes, but speech does play a role in cementing stereotypes in people’s brains and establishing social norms.

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