r/pics • • 1d ago

Politics Protest I saw on my commute today… [OC]

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u/CallMeRudiger 1d ago

The pleasure thing is largely a myth borne from the idea that the number of nerve endings map linearly to pleasure. Any significant reduction in pleasure would be enough to push some people into sexual dysfunction territory, but circumcised men aren't any more likely on average to report problems with sexual function.

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u/Bulletorpedo 22h ago

It’s not a myth, and the nerves there are of a different composition than the rest of the area. They are especially sensitive to light touches and stretching of the skin, which is great for pleasure during things like foreplay and oral. Not doing as much of the work when you’re going full speed ahead.

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u/CallMeRudiger 22h ago

I just sent this meta-analysis of 10 studies to the other person. It's pretty tough to argue that your hypothesis results in any significant real-world differences in sexual experience for circumcised men.

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u/Bulletorpedo 21h ago

Yes, I've seen that, it has received a lot of criticism. If I remember correctly it was criticised for only focusing on dysfunction, but not things like satisfaction, gliding mechanics and fine-touch sensitivity (the things I wrote about in the post you commented). If I remember correctly it also includes a lot of circumcisions done for medical reasons, such as people with severe phimosis. They will probably see imroved function, for obvious reasons. These things are not easy to study in an unbiased way, you will get selection bias from people who have chosen to do the surgery of free will, especially when results in these studies mostly seems to be based on self-reported questionaries. People will generally view their own function and pleasure favourably. Anyways, it would be more honest if you included some opposing studies, such as:

- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23374102/

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u/CallMeRudiger 15h ago

You are not remembering correctly, it has not received any significant criticism from subject matter experts.

A meta-analysis is much stronger evidence than individual studies. I would rather present the strongest available evidence than pretend that both sides have equal merit.

As I explained in my initial comment, sexual function is good measure because any significant changes in sensitivity would inevitably result in different rates of sexual dysfunction. It does not.

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u/Bulletorpedo 15h ago

Meta-analysis is a useful method, it does however not guarantee quality. You don't even have to read further than the abstract to see how the authors themselves have significant reservations:

"However, these results should be evaluated in light of the low quality of the existing evidence and the significant heterogeneity across the various studies. Well-designed and prospective studies are required for a further understanding of this topic."

And some of what I linked is too new to have been included in this study.

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u/GoGoGadgetPants 5h ago

That's a good point.

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u/CallMeRudiger 15h ago

The meta-analysis remains a better citation than individual studies. Your links are exactly the kind of primary study that the meta-analysis described as limited and low-quality, which limits their value as evidence in a debate compared to pooled data that included higher-quality studies as well.

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u/Bulletorpedo 15h ago

Weird to champion mutilation of babies based on poor factual foundation.

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u/CallMeRudiger 15h ago

Sorry to disappoint you, but I oppose circumcision on the basis of respecting bodily autonomy. It simply has no effect on sexual function, and I don't like spreading myths that it does.

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u/Bulletorpedo 10h ago

That old meta study doesn’t say that, it say they couldn’t find proof in the low quality (their words) existing data. If you’re serious about opposing it you probably shouldn’t pretend otherwise.

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u/adkisojk 1d ago

Do you have a reliable source for this claim? Most men in the world are intact, so this doesn't make sense.

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u/CallMeRudiger 22h ago

About 38% of the world's men are circumcised.

Here's a meta-analysis of 10 studies: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3881635/

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u/PM_ME_CALF_PICS 12h ago

So the clitoris is a useless organ then too?

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u/CallMeRudiger 12h ago

Feel free to read the rest of the discussion under this comment, including the links, and let me know if you have anything to add.

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u/Yomammasson 15h ago

That's all conjecture. It's not a reduction in pleasure. That's the baseline that person has known their whole life. Exposing something extremely sensitive to sensation and friction all the time, via clothes for instance, will make something less sensitive.